Author Topic: Oh-Oh.  (Read 532 times)

Offline SaburoS

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« on: April 15, 2003, 01:56:05 PM »
What if the allegations by the Iraqi "witnesses" turn out to be true? :(

"There are perhaps 100 wounded and 10-12 dead"

Anyone got some other credible news source links regarding what happened?

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MOSUL, Iraq (AFP) - At least 10 people were shot dead and scores wounded in the northern Iraqi town of Mosul, a hospital doctor said, with witnesses claiming US troops had opened fire on a crowd after it turned against an American-installed local governor.
 
Those charges were denied by a US military spokesman here, who said troops had come under fire from at least two gunmen and fired back, without aiming at the crowd.

Dr. Ayad al-Ramadhani said at the city hospital that "there are perhaps 100 wounded and 10 to 12 dead" following the shooting near the local government offices in a central square.

Three witnesses questioned by AFP and casualties who spoke to hospital staff said US troops had fired on the crowd, which was becoming increasingly hostile towards Governor Mashaan al-Juburi as he was making a pro-US speech.

An AFP journalist saw a wrecked car in the square and ambulances ferrying wounded people to hospital, while a US aircraft flew over the northern city at low altitude.

At US Central Command's war headquarters in Qatar, Brigadier General Vincent Brooks told a press briefing he had seen no military reports of the incident and could not confirm it.

But the military spokesman in Mosul later said "there were protesters outside, 100 to 150. There was fire. We returned fire."

He said the fire came from a roof opposite the building, about 75 metres (yards) away.

"We didn't fire at the crowd, but at the top of the building," the spokesman added. "There were at least two gunmen. I don't know if they were killed. The firing was not intensive but sporadic, and lasted up to two minutes.

A man who said he was a witness told a different story.

"We were at the market place near the government building, where Juburi was making a speech," said Marwan Mohammed, 50. "He said everything would be restored, water, electricity, and that democracy was the Americans.

"As for the Americans, they were going through the crowd with their flag. They placed themselves between the civilians and the building.

"The people moved toward the government building, the children threw stones, the Americans started firing. Then they prevented the people from recovering the bodies," he told AFP.

At the hospital, where angry relatives of the dead and wounded voiced hatred of Americans and Westerners, a doctor gave a similar account from patients.

"Juburi said the people must cooperate with the United States. The crowd called him a liar, and tempers rose as he continued to talk. They threw objects at him, overturned his car which exploded," said Dr. Said Altah.

"The wounded said Juburi asked the Americans to fire," he said.

Ayad Hassun, 37, another witness, said the trouble broke out after the crowd interrupted Juburi's speech with cries of, "There is no God but God and Mohammed is his prophet."

"You are with Saddam's Fedayeen," retorted Juburi, to which the crowd chanted that "the only democracy is to make the Americans leave."

He explained that 20 US soldiers escorted Juburi, an opposition leader installed as Mosul governor, back into the building as the situation ran out of control with the crowd's protests growing louder.

"They (the soldiers) climbed on top of the building and first fired at a building near the crowd, with the glass falling on the civilians. People started to throw stones, then the Americans fired at them," Hassun said.

"Dozens of people fell," said the witness, whose own shirt was blood-stained.

According to a third witness, Abdulrahman Ali, a 49-year-old labourer, the American soldiers opened fire when they saw the crowd running at the government building.

A few hours after the incident, the building was guarded by US troops as an angry crowd was kept 100 metres (yards) away.

In an interview Monday, Juburi said a deal with local Arab tribal chiefs saw most of Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s forces peacefully put down their arms and disband in Mosul, which fell to US control last Friday.

Juburi, head of the Damascus-based Patriotic Iraqi Party, said he had regularly addressed Mosul's residents over radio and television before entering the mostly Arab city with Kurdish forces.

"Every day, I said I would threaten no one's security, whether they were a member of the Baath Party, intelligence, police or supporters of Saddam. Mosul residents trust my family," he said.

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What would you think the average Iraqi would feel after reading this account? :(
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell

Offline Puke

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« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2003, 02:00:15 PM »
They've read much worse.  Remember, Americans eat Iraqi babies in front of their mothers.

Offline BGBMAW

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« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2003, 02:17:23 PM »
they cant read...


and if ididnt happen..im sure it will...thi swont be easy..peopl will die..BUT THE MAJORITY WILL benefit...

simple ....ugly facts of life..

Offline SaburoS

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« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2003, 02:22:38 PM »
Quote
They've read much worse. Remember, Americans eat Iraqi babies in front of their mothers.


Yeah, typical propaganda.
What concerns me most is that this can't be attributed to state controlled propaganda.
What I don't like about the story is a few details are missing.
1) Do we have an account from the US soldiers involved there about an actual casaulty count? Did 10-12 die? Were there scores of wounded?
If so....
2) Why are there no quotes of "The crowd was shot on by hostile forces and we returned fire against those hostile forces"
Instead of "there were protesters outside, 100 to 150. There was fire. We returned fire." "We didn't fire at the crowd, but at the top of the building," the spokesman added. "There were at least two gunmen. I don't know if they were killed. The firing was not intensive but sporadic, and lasted up to two minutes.

Damnit! There should be a stronger statement other than what we stated if we weren't involved in those civillian casualties.

Man oh man I hope I'm wrong, but what if our soldiers paniced and did open fire on the crowd? Then only to give a different account of what happened to their superiors?

Unless we really don't want to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people, we better get to the bottom of this and pronto.

All the more we need the indepentent free media there to actually record what's going on so stories such as these don't have questionable details.
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell

Offline ra

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« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2003, 02:49:31 PM »
Who is AFP?   This story is very weak.  US troops opened fire on civilians then prevented them from recovering bodies.  This sounds like Arab propaganda.

Offline Mini D

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« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2003, 02:56:29 PM »
Arab Free Press.

MiniD

Offline Wlfgng

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« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2003, 02:56:58 PM »
the Arab world does not believe America's stance on any of this

they think the Americans are there to help Israel control the middle east, get the oil for ourselves.. and in general make live miserable for Arabs

the more violence the US uses the more the believe they are right

Offline john9001

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« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2003, 03:01:22 PM »
it is very clear that the iraqis don't know how to protest,they have no experence at it, we need to send american protest organizers to teach the iraqis how to protest without getting shot.

it's too bad saddam was killed , he knew how to handle protesters.

the americans should find whats left of saddam's secret police and put them back in power, saddam's secret police will explane to the protesters that it is impolite to throw rocks at armed troops.

Offline Eagler

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« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2003, 03:12:47 PM »
who cares ...
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


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Offline blitz

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« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2003, 03:17:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
who cares ...



....they love us :D


Regards Blitz





America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain rediculous .

Offline Wlfgng

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« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2003, 05:00:35 PM »
spelled RIDICULOUS !!!!       not rediculous !!!


and who cares who loves us?