Author Topic: $200 billion deal!  (Read 1900 times)

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2001, 10:11:00 AM »
Ahh, but I can give you this information:

X-33
Will fly up to Mach 13-15.  Boeing Rocketdyne is providing the Linear Aersospike engine in the demonstator, if successful, a full scale version is coming.
X-37
Only X-vehicle capable of Mach 25.  Final assembly of this X vehicle will take place at Boeing with a roll out slated for 2001.
X-40
First flown in 1998, the space maneuver vehicle is an instrumented X-vehicle that supports the flight dynamics of the simliarily shaped X-37.  It will undergo drop tests from a CH-47 Chinook Helo soon.
X-43 Hyper-X
Scram-jet vehicle designed to explore Mach 7-10 regions of flight. X-43 is slated to fly by mid-2001.
X-45
Unmanned Combat Air Vehicle will begin testing in mid-2001 to demonstrate autonomous flight and potential of combat missions.  Will be able to fly 650 miles and carry 1000 lbs. of weapons.

Source: The Boeing News


hogfarmr

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« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2001, 10:37:00 AM »
Ah yes micro air vehicles. I did a little internship for a company that only contracts to the government over last summer. Some of the projects that other full time people where working on were micro air vehicles. the best one i saw was the "dragonfly". It was built for one part of the gov, call em Christans In Action. (use imagination). anyhow this thing had wings made out of cut up coke cans and a little body with all kinds of crap on it. It was the size if a med sized dragonfly and only weighed a few grams. powered by a tine electric motor with a lithium battery, it could fly for only about 2 min. It had a black and white camera that could transmit live shots and audio to a tv. But the coolest thing i saw it do is fly into our confrence room, pull into a hover near the window, and rotate its body 90 degrees so it could land on the wall. there it stuck and transmited full black and white with audio back to its base, about 25 yards away. but the amazing thing is it did it on its own, it was programed to fly, id the target (place above window), hovered and landed on a wall.
I never held more then a basic level secuity clearence, and knew about this. in fact this was never really classified. But if they show this stuff off just imagine what they are hidding. very scarry stuff, when you hear top clearence people talk about things like "listening devices", these little things might be the things they speak of. (Read as: they are alread being used in real world recon).

Offline Replicant

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« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2001, 10:50:00 AM »
The UK variant will be modified for VSTOL.  How they'll do this I haven't a clue!  I got some info on it at work the other week (they'll eventually be based where I work when and if they enter service).

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Offline Saintaw

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« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2001, 11:22:00 AM »
"unmanned aircrafts over Knitland ???" ... ALAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARM !
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Offline Sundog

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« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2001, 01:42:00 PM »
Replicant, they aren't really VSTOL aircraft. This implies vertical take off. They are really STOVL (Which is pretty much how the Harrier is used anyway). The difference being that the JSF aircraft aren't really optimized (In terms of sizing) for vertical take off.

The Lockheed design (X-35) uses a shaft driven fan (i.e.-a lift fan behind the cockpit which is 'shaft driven' from the main engine in the rear fuselage). The rear nozzle of the X-35 is similar in design to the rear nozzle from the YAK-141 (They actually 'consulted' with YAK on the design of that nozzle). So the the vertical thrust vectors on the X-35 are due to the rear nozzle pointing down and the lift fan behind the cockpit.

The Boeing Design (X-32) has two nozzles with limited vector capabiliy (I think it is like 5 degrees angled forward from the vertical and 15 degrees back..not sure, but you get the idea) and they are obviously near the c.g. to either side in the fuselage (More in the bottom, then the sides). The main flow from the rear nozzle is diverted to those nozzles to transition to vertical flight.

Personally, I think the Boeing design will be more robust (i.e.- you don't have to worry about a transmission failure). However, the Lockheed design will allow STOVL versions to have a 'powered equipment' bay. That could be used to power ECM equipment, and some have even suggested, a Laser Weapon.


Ripsnort! You forgot the:

X-44 MANTA
This is a test plane based on the YF-22 prototype. Picture the YF-22 prototype. Remove all of the flight surfaces and controls (Including mechanical vectored thrust) and picture just the fuselage. Now add a cropped delta wing (Picture the wing planform of the production F-22A without flight control surfaces and 'more of' a delta shape). That's the plane! How do they 'control' it? Through the use of 'fluidic' controls. Its a way of effecting the thrust vector without any external vectoring mechanisms. In fact, that's why the X-36s nozzle has apparently never been seen in a public photograph. It apparently used fluidic controls as part of the YAW control of the vehicle (In conjuction with split ailerons). My guess is they are using either 'bleed' doors, or some sort of 'offset ring' control device (Hard to explain) to control boundary layer in the exhaust nozzle and thereby 'steer' the thrust vector without any external moving 'devices'. This can greatly reduce and help control RADAR Cross Section.

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[This message has been edited by Sundog (edited 02-22-2001).]

Offline J_A_B

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« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2001, 02:00:00 PM »
Didn't they try the unamanned concept before and decide that computers were too stupid, that planes had to be able to actually THINK?   Yes, I'm sure they did--the F-102 and F-106 were both designed to be able to fly and fight themselves, with the pilot just sort of watching, plus landing the plane.  by the end of their service, both were changed to a more "normal" configuration.

Seems like we're re-living the 1950's all over again.  Pretty soon they're going to start using unguided nuclear missles and decide guns are pointless.

Oh yeah, and a war-hero General is going to be elected President, and there'll be a minor recession which seems big at the time, and we will have another "police action", and automibile design is gonna become outlandish...

Yep, we're back in the 1950's...mark my words.


J_A_B

Offline Octavius

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« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2001, 03:40:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by J_A_B:
Seems like we're re-living the 1950's all over again.  Pretty soon they're going to start using unguided nuclear missles and decide guns are pointless.

Oh yeah, and a war-hero General is going to be elected President, and there'll be a minor recession which seems big at the time, and we will have another "police action", and automibile design is gonna become outlandish...

Yep, we're back in the 1950's...mark my words.


J_A_B

Wow!  Hehe that is what it seems!  Its history repeating..  and on a larger scale, it might be repeating similar to the Roman empire, but thats an entirely different subject.  

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Offline Octavius

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« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2001, 03:41:00 PM »
hey, roman empire?!  HAIL OCTAVIUS!!  

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Offline Jekyll

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« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2001, 06:23:00 PM »
Out of interest, are these new toys designed to be hardened against EMP effects?

There you are, the US Air Force in all its glory .. thousands of brand new hypersonic aircraft with 'wish em dead' missiles.

China launches a low-earth orbit warhead and detonates it above the battlefield, and every single electronic circuit gets fried.

Thousands of brand new, stone-dead aircraft with long skinny paperweights hanging off the wings.

And millions of enemy with 1945 era rifles coming over the next ridge!

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funked

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« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2001, 06:55:00 PM »
Jab you are forgetting about that little computer revolution thingy.    

My area of research is control systems and trust me there is some SCARY AI out there.  Have you ever seen a car drive itself?  A robot play air hockey?  A team of robots play soccer?  In the combat aircraft of the future, the pilot is at best a supervisor heheeh...

As for the rest of your post:
- We might just be having that recession.
- Car design is ALREADY outlandish (SUV wheeled sloths).
- President Powell?

 

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 02-22-2001).]

funked

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« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2001, 07:01:00 PM »
Jekyll yes there is a lot of effort spent on dealing with EM effects from nukes.  Every system in an aircraft will have some specifications dealing with that.

Offline J_A_B

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« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2001, 07:15:00 PM »
"Have you ever seen a car drive itself"

Funny you should ask, because I have.

Pretty cool actually.  On highways, it would be great.   I don't think it would hold up so well on normal roads though, and would be positively lethal in winter.


Really though, that was a couple of years ago and I'm sure they've worked a lot of the bugs out.  How well does the system you've seen perform?  It would be great for drunk drivers...and those who share the road with them.


But I still can't get over the idea that we're re-living the 50's, except that maybe some of it will work better this time around  


J_A_B


Offline Tac

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« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2001, 07:18:00 PM »
Think about it, the AI on games as old as Aces of the Pacific used to whip your butt for a while. Now imagine billions of dollars and hundreds of AI programers dumped in developing a battlefield AI.

I believe that high resistance to EMP is a requisite of any battlefield toy.

Yep, here cometh the AI Wars.

funked

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« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2001, 11:41:00 PM »
JAB actually a computer can drive a car in snow a lot better than a human.  A human is just noticing the car begin to slide, while the computer has already detected the slide, made an appropriate correction, and is motoring along nicely.  

As far as the actual control of the vehicle (if I want to follow a certain path, what steering/power/braking inputs do I make) computers own humans.  The only place the human is better is in reading the road and traffic to figure out what that path is.  And that gap is narrowing.  

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 02-22-2001).]