Author Topic: Get rid of the Apache  (Read 859 times)

Offline lazs2

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Get rid of the Apache
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2003, 08:19:29 AM »
his accent is a little thick and he steals my kills but.... "get rid of" is kinda harsh..
lazs

Offline Suave

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Get rid of the Apache
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2003, 08:30:26 AM »
You should be very skeptical of information from anybody who uses the phrase, Gulf war II .

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Get rid of the Apache
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2003, 08:31:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Suave
You should be very skeptical of information from anybody who uses the phrase, Gulf war II .


Why?

Offline Suave

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Get rid of the Apache
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2003, 09:29:58 AM »
Becuase it's a media buzzword, and an incorrect term .

Offline Dingbat

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Get rid of the Apache
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2003, 09:43:48 AM »
David, still spouting crap...  How can this idiot in the article make such generalizations.  

The Apache was not used extensively in Afghanistan, because it is not ideal for fighting in mountains. But it was used in operation Desert Storm during the 1991 Persian Gulf war.  On 01 March 2002 five Apaches were present at the start of Operation Anaconda, another arrived later in the morning and a seventh flew up from Kandahar to join the fight the first afternoon. The Apache helicopters provided the most responsive close air support for forces taking heavy fire from the al Qaeda hideouts in the initial days of the battle. The Apaches got shot up pretty good. While none of the helicopters was shot down, four were so badly damaged they were knocked out of the fight. Five out of the six were non-mission-capable by the end of the first day. They had to do some fast turnaround on those things to get them back in the sky. The aviation task force included the Apaches of A Company, 3rd Battalion, 101st Aviation. The sweep by more than two thousand US, Afghan and other coalition forces through the valleys and over the mountains south of Gardez denied surviving al-Qaida and Taleban forces use of that remote area with its many caves as a base of operations.

"I don't propose to be an expert in terms of the U.S. military and how they intend on fighting if they go into Iraq. But if it is similar to Desert Storm, you would anticipate that the Apache would be used more and so would the troop-carrying helicopters," said Randal Levine, Northstar's chief financial officer.

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More:
Apache helicopters also played a major role in the liberation of Kuwait. On 20 November 1990, the 11th Aviation Brigade was alerted for deployment to Southwest Asia from Storck Barracks in Illesheim Germany. The first elements arrived in theater 24 November 1990. By 15 January 1991 the unit had moved 147 helicopters, 325 vehicles and 1,476 soldiers to the region. The Apache helicopters of the Brigade destroyed more than 245 enemy vehicles with no losses.

Most of the Apache's earlier mechanical problems had been corrected, and whatever doubts remained regarding its durability and combat effectiveness were quickly dispelled. During Operation Desert Storm, AH-64s were credited with destroying more than 500 tanks plus hundreds of additional armored personnel carriers, trucks and other vehicles. They also were used to destroy vital early warning radar sites, an action that opened the U.N. coalition's battle plan. Apaches also demonstrated the ability to perform when called upon, logging thousands of combat hours at readiness rates in excess of 85 percent during the Gulf War.




Here is the breakdown in Vietnam note: not all aircraft shot down were "Strike Capable"

The following was done recently for a museum.
1 205 was destroyed (Air America)
270 AH-1G were destroyed
1 AH-1J was destroyed
1 BELL was destroyed
14 CH-21C were destroyed
2 CH-34 were destroyed
1 CH-37B was destroyed
1 CH-37C was destroyed
7 CH-3C were destroyed
7 CH-3E were destroyed
94 CH-46Awere destroyed
58 CH-46Dwere destroyed
83 CH-47Awere destroyed
20 CH-47B were destroyed
29 CH-47C were destroyed
12 CH-53Awere destroyed
2 CH-53C were destroyed
9 CH-53Dwere destroyed
9 CH-54Awere destroyed
2 H-37A were destroyed
21 HH-3E were destroyed
7 HH-43Bwere destroyed
6 HH-43F were destroyed
2 HH-53Bwere destroyed
7 HH-53Cwere destroyed
147 OH-13S were destroyed
93 OH-23Gwere destroyed
45 OH-58Awere destroyed
842 OH-6A were destroyed
3 SH-34G were destroyed
8 SH-3A were destroyed
3 SIOUX were destroyed
60 UH-1 were destroyed
1 UH-1A was destroyed
357 UH-1B were destroyed
365 UH-1C were destroyed
886 UH-1D were destroyed
90 UH-1E were destroyed
18 UH-1F were destroyed
1313 UH-1H were destroyed
1 UH-1N was destroyed
6 UH-2A were destroyed
6 UH-2B were destroyed
176 UH-34Dwere destroyed
Total helicopters destroyed in the Vietnam War was 5,086 out of 11,827.  The Armys' UH-1's totaled 7,531,955 flight hours in the Vietnam War between October 1966 and the end of 1975. It is my
opinion that the Huey including the Huey Cobra (AH-1G) which had 1,038,969 flight hours in Vietnam, have more
combat flight time than any other aircraft in the history of warfare.

Offline Yeager

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Get rid of the Apache
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2003, 09:46:36 AM »
Too soon to tell.  I need to wait until the movie comes out to make my final decision.
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline Pongo

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Get rid of the Apache
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2003, 10:29:48 AM »
A bridge too far.
Someone in army aviation tried to push the evelope a little to far. They got off lucky for such a valuable lesson.
But by how the Iraqs seem to have reacted to the battle, (I would say they got more aggressive and moved units south that were interdicted heavily). Maybe it turned out excellent for the Coalition.
But as an ex infanteer. Keep your hands off the apache. Used reasonably it is an increadable piece of gear.  As a penetration blocker it is un beatable.

Offline Dowding

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Get rid of the Apache
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2003, 10:41:51 AM »
The UK has bought dozens of the things. The first contingent of Longbows are supposed to come online very soon -  I hardly think we would have bought them if we thought they were crap. We would have gone for the Euro-Tiger attack chopper.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Wlfgng

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Get rid of the Apache
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2003, 10:49:59 AM »
bottom line:

too much reliance on high-technology is not a good thing.

numbers, simplicity, easy of repair, effectiveness...these matter in the long run and the A-10 certainly fits that role... thank God they didn't entirely scrap them like they wanted to before desert storm.