Author Topic: Reading Websites  (Read 615 times)

Offline DVDA

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« on: May 12, 2003, 10:35:34 PM »
hi all im reading websites trying to learn how to fight in AH, well i tested out all the planes and i have decided to stick with the P-38 or P-51D but i was reading this one site and it said

"The P-38L has a fowler flap that is designed to also aid maneuvering at the 8 degree setting.  This setting will provide an enhancement to the plane's turning capabilities at a low cost in additional drag.  If you get caught in a turning fight, use of the maneuver setting is highly recommended.  "

so what do they mean i dont understand, can someone explain the whole flaps for turning concept?
« Last Edit: May 12, 2003, 10:48:31 PM by DVDA »

Offline ALF

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« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2003, 10:47:11 PM »
Unlike some planes (Spits come to mind), the P38 has multi-stage flaps that can be deployed in stages, and at 1-2 notch settings often can provide quite an increase in manuverability.  Trouble is this comes at the cost of speed...and no matter how small...any loss of speed in the MA leaves you vulnerable.

One of the best uses is when you get a bandit on your six, and can do a slightly downward spiral...this keeps your speed up...can help your enemy to overshoot and give them a WIDER turn radius as you are not only going a little slower, but in a turn, a little slower can equal a lot tighter.

Offline mia389

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« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2003, 11:08:28 PM »
Oh cool another P38 pilot, first of all take alot to learn the P38 as your using flaps,trim and throttles constantly in a fight. Ill tell to you to use flaps as much as possible and let the flaps turn the plane with some trim too. If turn fight gets slow enouch you should be at full flaps. The P38 is a great stall fighter due to its no torque. Also check this  out alot of good stuff here. AKAK has some good films if really wanna spend some time learing in it. But for your question about the flaps I just say use them when the plane needs them and yes they do help you turn, depending on what your speed is depends how many notches. Dive brake dont help you turn. I just slows u down and dont even work at slow speeds Ive heard. Also a thing to rember in 38 is smaller turning radius with slower speeds. Throtles do wonders :-) Hope this helps

Offline mjolnir

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« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2003, 07:39:10 AM »
Highly recommend Soda's page for comparing aircraft.

http://www.telusplanet.net/~dsoder/models

Offline RTR

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« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2003, 12:53:08 PM »
If you are so slow that you need full flaps in a P38, you have made a tactical error. Although full flaps will "enhance" the turn, by this time you are way to slow, and turns can better be described as "wallowing around".  The P38 is a pretty remarkable bird, and when flown well it can be devestating. I rareley have more than 2 notches of flap on and if I get to a point where I need more I will stick my nose down and extend. The P38 accelerates fairly well, and once you have some airspeed on, it allows you to go back to more appropriate tactics.
So.. do I turn with it?  Absolutley, but I turn on my terms. And in the verticals, its probably the best you are gonna get here.
Just wish I had the talent with it that some in here have. Perserverence.
It's killing me, but I'm gonna get better with it (have no choice..cant get worse hehe).
Cheers
RTR
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Offline mia389

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« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2003, 01:35:41 PM »
Like I said I like to Stall fight with, and that means slow. if you merge with a spit coalt I chop throttles and drop flaps as low as they can go and go vertical for the merge. If spit stays wide open as he merges hes dead. I like to force people into a stall fights, P38 will win most of time hehe :-)  FBsmokey

Offline Ack-Ack

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« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2003, 10:53:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by RTR
If you are so slow that you need full flaps in a P38, you have made a tactical error.



Not really.  The P-38 is highly underrated as a stall fighter and in a stall fight with flaps fully deployed, it can hold its own against planes like the N1K2 and Spitfire in low speed/stall turn fights.  Foolishly dumping your E deploying flaps, is a tactical mistake but as mia389 pointed out, at slow speeds with full flaps, not many planes can keep up with the P-38 in a stall fight.



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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Reading Websites
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2003, 11:50:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DVDA
hi all im reading websites trying to learn how to fight in AH, well i tested out all the planes and i have decided to stick with the P-38 or P-51D but i was reading this one site and it said

"The P-38L has a fowler flap that is designed to also aid maneuvering at the 8 degree setting.  This setting will provide an enhancement to the plane's turning capabilities at a low cost in additional drag.  If you get caught in a turning fight, use of the maneuver setting is highly recommended.  "

so what do they mean i dont understand, can someone explain the whole flaps for turning concept?


The first notch of flaps in the P-38 is commonly referred to as either the 'Combat' or 'Maneuverability' flaps and can be deployed at 250mph or lower.  In high speed turn fights, with combat flaps deployed, it can make all the difference between returning to base intact of falling to the ground in a fiery wreckage.  While flaps might not be as important or even necessary in some other planes in AH, learning how and when to properly use the flaps in the P-38 is a definite must.

There is also one major downside to the flaps in the P-38, in fact this plagues all the planes in AH, except those that had this feature in rea life.  That problem is the auto-retraction of flaps when you over speed.  In AH, you have to be careful when you over speed past the desired speed for that particular flaps setting otherwise you can get into an extremely viscious snap roll spin that in some cases is hard to recover from and at lower altitudes can be fatal.  This also hinders one of the strenghts of the P-38, which was its ability to turn tight in nose low turns but with the auto-retracting flaps, as you inevitably build up speed in the nose low turns, your flaps will auto-retract making this maneuver less effective than it was in real life.  A minor gripe though once you get used to the P-38 as you'll find other tactics and maneuvers to compensate.

The true strenght of the P-38 isn't in its turning ability though but rather with it's vertical performance.  The ability of the P-38 to retain energy as well as it does makes it one of the best vertical fighters in the game and extremely dangerous when flown using either Energy or BnZ tactics.  Here's some quick tips for BnZ tactics in the P-38.

There are a few keys to successful air-to-air combat in the Lightning. She is the archetype of the energy fighter. Your tactics are zoom and boom. Your strengths are speed climbing, speed at high altitude, speed diving and enough firepower in the nose cone to give you the speed advantage in bringing the engagement to an end. If you have seen a hawk dive on its prey you know how to fight in the P-38.

You will, inevitably find yourself transitioning into some turning fights and you can be successful in the P-38L. But make the platform of your fighting tactics B&Z and then take to the turning fight when opportunity presents itself. Here are a few tips to get you going in the right direction:

Maneuver so that you start your attack above the enemy, usually the higher the better. Your plan is to make slashing attacks and then zoom-climb back to altitude.

Imagine a 60 degree cone off the tail of the bandit, move into that cone before you start your slashing attack, then roll or drop the nose and dive

Set a combat speed range of 250 knots plus and make that the minimum speed at which you will engage.

If you have to go over the top to reverse try to enter the loop with wings level and a speed of 300 knots plus or you will fade at the top of the loop and stall. Then point the top of the canopy (your lift vector) on the bogey when vertical by pirouetting and then pulling the nose right down on his line of flight.
 
The fastest reversal will be a nose low slice entered at 250 knots or better. Just drop the nose below the horizon so that it appears just above the gun sight’s outer ring and no higher.

When diving on a turning bandit use lag pursuit first, then when you are within a 30 degree angle off tail use the ailerons to roll inside the turn. If you are farther off the tail the plan on a snapshot then dive away.

When your speed drops below 250 knots drop the combat flaps to avoid a stall. Use small moves on the stick and rely on your speed to regain advantage.

In furballs you will have better luck against multiple bogeys than you will one on one. The multiple-bogey scenario will teach you quickly which target feels viable and which will leave you chasing your tail. It will teach you how to keep the bad guy from chasing your tail, as well.



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Offline BUG_EAF322

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« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2003, 01:08:54 AM »
U better not try to turn with spitfires
maybe with some rookies u can try to stall fight.
Wich is an overrated term.

It can outturn yaks and la7's however.

Offline Ack-Ack

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« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2003, 01:38:19 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
U better not try to turn with spitfires
maybe with some rookies u can try to stall fight.
Wich is an overrated term.

It can outturn yaks and la7's however.



P-38 will hang with a Spitfire in a stall fight.  I'm not talking about a low speed turn fight but a good, honest stall fight where speeds are usually below 150mph to stall speed.  The lack of engine torque and gentle stall characteristics the P-38 will give it the edge in a stall fight.  Now if you try to turn with a Spitfire in a medium to low speed fight (250mph to 150mph) then you might not come out with your plane intact but you definitely have the edge in a stall fight against them.  It's a little bit more tricky against the early model Sptifires like the I and V models but the P-38 will still have the slight edge even over those planes in a stall fight.

Try turning aggressively in the stall zone in a Spitfire and you'll find yourself fighting the torque from its engines almost as much as the plane you're fighting.


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Offline BUG_EAF322

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« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2003, 01:42:27 PM »
Anyway a good spit pilot longtime got u before u reach those low speeds.

Offline mia389

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« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2003, 02:07:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
Anyway a good spit pilot longtime got u before u reach those low speeds.


Not necisarly, since Ive started flying the P38 its very easy to sucker spits into a stall fight. A spit5 will kill me however spit9 usally becomes good duel. If he snaps rolls her for a sec,that will be all the adv. I need. I try not to turn with spits but sometimes then end up on my 6 and I do end up turning with them. Some spit9s have got me and some go down in flames. I cant quite turn the P38 lik akak can at low speeds but can turn it pretty good. If spit is winning the ring around the rosie I have gone up and had spit try to follow but he cant and he ends up going under me. Had this happen about 5 times in the month and is very funny to see. try get a spit to go up at 100mph it dont want to. The P38 will go up better then the spit9 that low of speed. U say a spit9 will kill the P38 before the fight can get that slow I disagree, very easy to get spits slow. If i chop my throttles and start turning and you dont chop throttles and start turning your gonna die man. to keep a tight turn your gonna have to chop throttles, next thing you know were stall fighting:D

Offline WldThing

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« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2003, 02:26:42 PM »
No good spit pilot will E fight or follow a P-38 in a climb Mia..Unless the spit has E over the 38, which doesnt happen to often..
« Last Edit: May 14, 2003, 02:29:40 PM by WldThing »