Author Topic: Tell me again why....  (Read 3126 times)

Offline SKurj

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Tell me again why....
« Reply #60 on: June 17, 2003, 06:07:37 PM »
Since the maproom was moved off the field I see no reason why bombers can't gun on the ground again.....


The carbombers and such all basically became obsolete when the maproom was moved off the base...



SKurj

Offline AKWarp

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« Reply #61 on: June 22, 2003, 09:23:23 PM »
>1. Disabling buff guns has nuthing to do with carbombing, does >it? I have never advocated enabling bombs at ground level. >This, I guess is necessary so the vulcher doesnt feel cheated >when he zooms in for an unchallenged kill, only to be surprised >by a big explosion.

   Carbombing and ack gunning from the field were all tactics used when guns wer enabled all the time and bombs were armed the instant they were released.  I never said you advocated carbombing, did I?  I included it because it was the scenario we all faced at one time.  Ack starring and carbombing were used togther.

 
>2. The sight of 40 buff forms on the field scares YOU, not me. I >can kill them with a bomb. If somebody is dumb enuff to try to >strafe them, then they deserve to die.

   LOL!  You know not what you speak of.  I'm not scared of 40 buff formations on a field because if that happened, the server would probably crash.  If it didn't, I certainly wouldn't go anywhere near it...and that's exactly the point being made here.  Upping 40 buff formations to sit and protect a field is ridiculous.  If it doesn't kill the server, it would kill the frame rates and completely stop any attack on the field.  That's as one sided as it gets...oh wait, you, you like flying buffs, so I can see how YOU'D like this.  If we are going to have such silly abilities, HT might as well make nukes for us all to carry too.

>However, I concede to you, the server crashes and the frame >rate hit would be a problem with this. I also refined my >suggestion to disabling buff guns until takeoff, and then you >have them until tower.  
>Now, no more frame rate or server crash problem.
>No more carbombing problem.

   Not a problem until 40 buff formations roll enough to to hop into the air and back down on runway and stop.  VOILA, instant ack star.  

>I am saying that deacking and strafing an nme airbase with a >buff form is possible, and some fool may even think that he is >getting away with something by doing it.

  So label me a fool...I've deacked plenty of fields with a low flying buff before.

>But what I said to you was,  IF..IF..IF.. you advocate disabling >buff guns on the ground when landing because somebody might >deack a field and land the buffs and then strafe the town, I >challenge you to try it, aside from the strafing part, since the >guns are disabled at landing too.

  So what are you getting at here?  I don't know why you bring this up, I never said anyhting about landing at an enemy base and playing ack star.  I specifically addressed, and continue to address, the ack starring at friendly bases as a means of base protection and how crazy it was when we used to be able to do that.

>In fact, if you are able to deack a field with a buff form, just fly >above it at 500 feet and let the guns rip, then answer me >this...Why would you want to land and strafe, when the 500ft >strafe is 100 times more effective?

  I don't know...you tell me, you are the one that keeps bringing this up as if it were one of my points of contention (which I never said anyhting about before).

>Q. I should have my guns when I land so I can defend myself >from the maniac suicide speed freak vulcher who doesnt want >me to land my 4 kills, 3 of which are him. He know I am >defenseless on the ground and may decide to take advantage >of that. Dont tell me I have to fly until he runs out of gas or I >need to plan my attack better. My airplane is crippled and I cant >make it any further. Do you agree or disagree that i should have >my guns?

>If you disagree, then why?

  100% disagree.  Why should the rest of the arena suffer because YOU want your guns on the ground when you are in a crippled buff?

  What about crippled fighters trying to land?  Afterall, it's not fair their guns can only shoot in one direction and are fixed.  Why don't we make everyhting in the landing pattern invulnerable to bullets?  It's not fair a fighter can take advantage of a low slow plane?  Please.  A lot of my deaths are the result of trying to land at a field where enemy fighters are present.  It happens to everyone, not just to buffs.  
 

>Tilt, that is a good idea, but i am geting the feeling that 'vulcher >protection' is the real order here, since all these supposed >impossible situations that would result of 'guns enabled on the >ground' can be fixed by killing the bomber hangars in >preparation for base capture.

  BS!  These are not "supposed" situations, they are fact, have been here in the past...anyone that's been here for a while can tell you that.  Supposed my arse.  This sounds more to me like a buff flyer whining than anyhting.  

  If the bomber hangars are so easy to kill before an attack, then go try it yourself.  Wait, let's turn on guns on the ground first, then you go give it a try and see....

Offline xbrit

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« Reply #62 on: June 23, 2003, 01:48:38 AM »
De-acking is what I was talking about in AW it was an easier task than here in AH, and yes if you did leave the ack up you did tend to end up back in the tower after a pass or two.

Offline Murdr

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« Reply #63 on: June 23, 2003, 04:29:27 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by xbrit
De-acking is what I was talking about in AW it was an easier task than here in AH, and yes if you did leave the ack up you did tend to end up back in the tower after a pass or two.


You ended up in the tower?  Damn I always ended up in the ready room or HQ  (sorry couldnt resist).  "easier" depends on what arena or timeframe you are talking about.  They toyed with range and accuracy quite a bit.  I prefer evading AH 37mm tracers to dying to a first or second salvo from AW proxie rounds.  However I still like the ideas from fester and others about additional defensive gun types and positions.

KoolAid, have to agree it is stupid you cant defend your buff while landing, but appearntly that side effect bothers less people than the problem it cured.  Personally, if it wasnt for the graphics problem, I could care less if guns were active on the ground.

Offline xbrit

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« Reply #64 on: June 23, 2003, 05:34:03 AM »
picky picky picky !!!!
You meant what I knew !!

Offline frank3

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« Reply #65 on: June 23, 2003, 01:21:18 PM »
well, AKWarp has got a point there.
<-- agrees with him

Offline SKurj

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« Reply #66 on: June 23, 2003, 01:38:24 PM »
Not one person has come up with a good reason to disable guns on buffs on the ground... in AH in its CURRENT form

All they would do is help defence against vulchers, their range is NOT enough to cover the town...  so they would be useless at preventing captures.


SKurj

Offline WhiteHawk

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« Reply #67 on: June 23, 2003, 09:42:18 PM »
Just answer the question AKWarp.  Why is it better for the game to disable buff guns on the ground,  than to disable the bombers, using the tools provided within the game.  eg kill the bomber hangars?  (Dont talk about carbombing anymore, plz.  It has nuthing to do with guns enabled or disabled on the runway.
Grasping for this as a reason only reinforces my belief that you are out of options.)
  Server crashes would be a ligitamate explanation, lets disect this a bit..
  First,w e have to assume that there are going to be massive quantities of people defending the particular airbase. So the 3 or 4 fighter kill vh, deack airbase vulcharama wouldnt inspire droves of people to defend it.  It sure doesnt now anyhow.  There are usually 5 or 6 minimun bases being attacked at any one time, and not to mention the  offensive minded guys who never defend a base.  Very unlikely.
  Second, IF it did inspire droves of defenders, They would have to believe that sitting on the runway in a top turret of a buff gun is the pinnacle of defensive technology.  By our hypothesis, we have droves of defenders,   I think la7's and nikis and spits would prolly be the choice of most.  At most, 2 gun stations would be effective from a buff on the ground.
  Third, IF it did inspire massive quatnitites of defenders AND they all hopped in their favorite buff and parked on the runway, we could assume that they are trying to crash the server, which the guns enabled or disabled has nothing to do with.  I dont know what country you fly for but I have never over heard anybody trying to plan a server crash.
  I just think that your server crash thoery wont happen.  WIll people park buffs on the runways at shoot at vulchers, yes.
  And that is all that will happen.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2003, 08:12:58 AM by WhiteHawk »

Offline WhiteHawk

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« Reply #68 on: June 24, 2003, 08:23:45 AM »
Well, if someone can tell me how to post a film, I will display in graphic detail my side of the argument.  
  Upped 3 b17's, did a run into nme turf, bish homeland in the big isles.  La7 ups to defend, I kill him, I kill the town, he ups again,
I kill him, he ups again cahsing me back to my base, I kill him.
  he ups again, In the meantime a nme 110 kilt vh deacked base
when I thought i would try to sucker him into a fight, well, he fought and shot me up real good.  I kilt the 110 eventually,
crash landed my buff on the runway, when I heard the roar of the la7.  Guns a blazing, full speed ahead, he plows into me and kills me.  
  I can deal with a guy upping time and time again, I can deal with him doing suicide runs at my buff form with guns a blazing until he dies,   and i could accept the suicide plow on the runway, except my guns are disabled and his arent.  thats un fediddleing american.  Gimme my guns so I can have a shot at these taliban fools.:mad:

  In fact I just viewed the film, and AKWarp, here is a perfect example of how a carbomber operates.  :mad:
« Last Edit: June 24, 2003, 09:18:16 AM by WhiteHawk »

Offline AKWarp

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« Reply #69 on: July 05, 2003, 01:35:15 PM »
Not true Skurj, launch 10 buff formations and taxi to the town.  As long as a field is covered by lots of buff formation ack-stars, enemy fighters will up like crazy as well.  It provides a very unrealistic and ridiculous means of covering a base.

Offline AKWarp

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« Reply #70 on: July 05, 2003, 01:49:40 PM »
>Just answer the question AKWarp. Why is it better for the game >to disable buff guns on the ground, than to disable the >bombers, using the tools provided within the game. eg kill the >bomber hangars? (Dont talk about carbombing anymore, plz. It >has nuthing to do with guns enabled or disabled on the runway.
>Grasping for this as a reason only reinforces my belief that you >are out of options.)

   WTF are you talking about?  Let me repeat what I said (for about the 10th time since you can't seem to grasp it)....I included carbombing because the previous incarnation if this ridiculous guns on the ground seting included that as well.  Now, forget bombs, and let's talk only guns...

  For yet the 5th or 6th time...having guns enabled on the ground will have extremely detrimental effects on the game for multiple reasons:

1.  Huge amounts of buff formations will kill the server.

2.  If the server doesn't die, then frame rates will be trashed.

3.  Killing all the bomber hangars BEFORE buff formations up is not an option because the fields flash long in advance of an attack.  Plenty of time for buff formations to up in the ackstar role (this is exactly what happened in the past when guns were enabled on the ground).

4.  Buffs will also becaome a mass way to defend towns as well.

The whole notion of buff guns on the ground is not a viable option in the game, even in its current version, unless you jkust want to total absurdity in the game.


>Server crashes would be a ligitamate explanation, lets disect >this a bit..
>First,we have to assume that there are going to be massive >quantities of people defending the particular airbase. So the 3 >or 4 fighter kill vh, deack airbase vulcharama wouldnt inspire >droves of people to defend it.

   This is pure conjecture on your part.  Having played this game the time I have, I would wager that you'd be wrong in this case on many occasions, especially when a team is down to only a few bases....


> It sure doesnt now anyhow. There are usually 5 or 6 minimun >bases being attacked at any one time, and not to mention the >offensive minded guys who never defend a base. Very unlikely.

  Regardless, it would happen more than you think (see reason above) and just the fact that it can happen is enough to turn off the buff guns on the ground.  You obviously haven't been playing this game long enough to know that ANY sort of advantage any team can get in any way, shape or form will be utilized.  

>Second, IF it did inspire droves of defenders, They would have >to believe that sitting on the runway in a top turret of a buff gun >is the pinnacle of defensive technology.

  You've obviously never experienced the buffs on the ground defending then.

>By our hypothesis, we have droves of defenders, I think la7's >and nikis and spits would prolly be the choice of most. At most, >2 gun stations would be effective from a buff on the ground.

 And with a large number of formations on the ground, including the reduced frame rates, the effectiveness is a lot better than you give it credit for.  I have been here online when this happened in the past (have you?).  It is far more effective than you think...not to mention ridiculous.

>Third, IF it did inspire massive quatnitites of defenders AND they >all hopped in their favorite buff and parked on the runway, we >could assume that they are trying to crash the server, which the >guns enabled or disabled has nothing to do with.

   Huh?  Yeah, let's all crash the server to save a field!  LOL!  You make silly assumptions....

>I dont know what country you fly for but I have never over >heard anybody trying to plan a server crash.

  Exactly, and this kind of flies in the face of your carzy assumption above...

>I just think that your server crash thoery wont happen.

  Think all you want, it has happened already.

> WIll people park buffs on the runways at shoot at vulchers, yes. And that is all that will happen.

  And that's exactly the problem with turning on buff guns on the ground.

Offline AKWarp

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« Reply #71 on: July 05, 2003, 01:51:44 PM »
Well, if someone can tell me how to post a film, I will display in graphic detail my side of the argument.
Upped 3 b17's, did a run into nme turf, bish homeland in the big isles. La7 ups to defend, I kill him, I kill the town, he ups again,
I kill him, he ups again cahsing me back to my base, I kill him.
he ups again, In the meantime a nme 110 kilt vh deacked base
when I thought i would try to sucker him into a fight, well, he fought and shot me up real good. I kilt the 110 eventually,
crash landed my buff on the runway, when I heard the roar of the la7. Guns a blazing, full speed ahead, he plows into me and kills me.
I can deal with a guy upping time and time again, I can deal with him doing suicide runs at my buff form with guns a blazing until he dies, and i could accept the suicide plow on the runway, except my guns are disabled and his arent. thats un fediddleing american. Gimme my guns so I can have a shot at these taliban fools.

In fact I just viewed the film, and AKWarp, here is a perfect example of how a carbomber operates.




LOL!  Get over it...it happens to everyone...and not just to buffs...it happens to crippled fighters too.  Still a hell of a lot better option than having 35 freakin buffs sitting on a runway playing ackstar.

Offline scJazz

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« Reply #72 on: July 05, 2003, 04:52:30 PM »
The biggest reason for disabling guns on Bombers that are in contact with the ground is the ackstar phenomenon. I don't see any reason why the guns should be disabled for a bomber that has left the ground and is returning. Obviously with some form of time check to make sure that the plane didn't just get wheels up and then skid to halt at the end of the runway. The main complaint here is getting blasted after a sortie by a maniac dodging field AAA while going for a defenseless target. If I want to fly a defenseless target I'll jump into a C47.

Offline WhiteHawk

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« Reply #73 on: July 06, 2003, 10:12:15 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKWarp

LOL!  Get over it...it happens to everyone...and not just to buffs...it happens to crippled fighters too.  Still a hell of a lot better option than having 35 freakin buffs sitting on a runway playing ackstar.


WOW..35 buffs sitting on the runway, and me overhead with 42000lbs of high explosives.

Question still stands, why is it better for the game to disable the buff guns on the runway instead of requiring an attacking force to kill the bomber hangars?

Thats my question.

Give me a scenario where 35 people would up buffs and sit on the runway.

Offline SKurj

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« Reply #74 on: July 07, 2003, 01:45:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKWarp
Not true Skurj, launch 10 buff formations and taxi to the town.  As long as a field is covered by lots of buff formation ack-stars, enemy fighters will up like crazy as well.  It provides a very unrealistic and ridiculous means of covering a base.



+) lemme know how successfully you can get 1 formation of buffs to the town within lets say 5 mins...

(then try find 9 friends to do it with you...)

With alot of maps the terrain isn't level between the base and the town.  Ok so why not land at the town? Not as simple as it may seem...

SKurj