Author Topic: European Security and Defense Union (Read 1209 times)

Saintaw · « **Reply #15 on:** April 30, 2003, 10:17:56 AM »

Ooops, well, it did sound German, and it's still verry nice !

OIO · « **Reply #16 on:** April 30, 2003, 10:55:08 AM »

Israel's forces are also self-defense forces too.

You can dress the wolf in sheep's clothes and keep the fools convinced that the wooly canine is harmless. Until it bites their heads off.

Self-Defense is just a word, a military is a military is a military. Japan, Germany and Israel's "self-defense" forces are quite capable of leaving their shores and kicking major arse.

funkedup · « **Reply #17 on:** April 30, 2003, 11:23:49 AM »

I think it's a great idea. USA spends a much higher percentage of GNP on defense than any nation in Europe. Time for them to share the burden. Would help us be able to reduce taxes. They will have to increase taxes and military budget, which will make us even more competitive in the global economy.

The only thing that worries me: Is Germany to be trusted without an occupying force? They don't have a real good track record over the last 100 years. I don't think it's a coincidence that US troops were stationed in Europe for 50 years, and those 50 years were the most peaceful in the history of Europe.

Monk · « **Reply #18 on:** April 30, 2003, 11:24:00 AM »

You can never have a decent Army if you have conscripts as Germany does.

lord dolf vader · « **Reply #19 on:** April 30, 2003, 11:40:46 AM »

so the american army was not a decent army when it took conscripts ?

bite my ass.

Monk · « **Reply #20 on:** April 30, 2003, 11:52:05 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lord dolf vader
so the american army was not a decent army when it took conscripts ?

bite my ass.

LOL good come back , Freakin Loser.

crabofix · « **Reply #21 on:** April 30, 2003, 03:37:49 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by straffo
It's Gewurtstraminer ... and it's Alsacian you ***** belgian [tuuuuuuuuut censored )]

I thought Alcace was part of Germany??

BUG_EAF322 · « **Reply #22 on:** April 30, 2003, 11:52:25 PM »

I rather have a united nato

It's a stupid idea

BUG_EAF322 · « **Reply #23 on:** April 30, 2003, 11:57:02 PM »

Dutch consripts used to win the cavlary bocal aginst prof americans tank crews. (no kidding)

Profs only is bad, conscript have better improvising capabilitys
I regret dutch army went prof only.

Consripts give more feedback to the civilians.

Monk · « **Reply #24 on:** May 01, 2003, 02:47:38 AM »

The Franco-German Brigade,
Have they ever done anything, or do they just cost hard Euros as a "Show" piece.

This is not a bash.

When I talk about Conscripts, I'm talking about the 8 month wonders, that must do service in the German Bundeswehr.

Germany would be better provided to have a small, high-tech, mobile Army then what they have now.

Nilsen · « **Reply #25 on:** May 01, 2003, 04:17:13 AM »

The proposed EU force will not draw resources from Nato commitment, it will be "independent" and have a focus on european security. I dont see the problem with that at all.

Conscripts can be just as good as a professional armed force if the training and equipment is good enough.

Most if not all countries i know about that has "forced conscription" or whatever its called in english

also has a substantial amount of soldiers and officers on "contract" ie they are pro. With todays hightech battlefield you simply cannot base your entire defence forces on conscripts because as soon as they have reach a good skill level they are done.

In our case only about 40 percent of all 18 year old boys complete their mandatory 12+6 months of service because the rest does not really want to or cant because of medical or educational reasons. So the 40 % that are left are usually well motivated and the competition to get contracts is rather tough. Same goes for alot of other countries that base their armed forces on conscription, numbers has dropped but quality has gotten alot better since the cold war.

Monk · « **Reply #26 on:** May 01, 2003, 05:04:46 AM »

Na, a good trained Professional Army is the way to go. Nilsen made a good point, after 8-12 months, most conscripts are done with thier service.

Prof. guys, have years of experiance behind them, with a little luck countless conflics in thier resume.

I can't see how a soldier that gets a letter in the mail to go into Military service really wants to give a 100%. True there are exceptions. 8-12 months, geez I was still in training. Took 6 months before I saw my first real duty station.

Does the British Army have conscipts, or does it work as the US
services.

Espirt de Corps, something conscripts will never give. That "Bro" thing as we called in the MARINES.

Dowding · « **Reply #27 on:** May 01, 2003, 05:24:19 AM »

The British Army does not have conscripts.

It had 'national service' back in the 1950s, which was like conscription. That ended in 1955 I think.

Nilsen · « **Reply #28 on:** May 01, 2003, 05:30:30 AM »

You can have a very good Espirt de Corps outside the us marines.

The British armed forces are 100% pro

Monk · « **Reply #29 on:** May 01, 2003, 07:11:34 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nilsen10
You can have a very good Espirt de Corps outside the us marines.

The British armed forces are 100% pro

Of course you can, that's my point it's a Professional Army and a dam good one at that.

I've worked with the Royal Marines, SAS, Paras, Aussies, ROK Marines and Norway's Boat teams and even (don't laugh) Dutch Marines. All of them, Kick bellybutton troops.

Nothing like the conscripts I've worked with from other countries.