P-47

[F4UDOA]

Stegahorse,

Would you like me to post ten stories that say the opposite of what you posted?

That's why they call those stories annecdotes not facts.

[Stegahorse]

The was was going so well in fall 1944 that "I'll be home for Christmas " ws more than a dream. They really believed that the war in Europe was one. The Battle of the Bulge was a rude wake up call.

The F4u was for all intent the same plane as the p-47. Both weighed in their normal combat weights about the same. The R-2800-10 in the Corsair had a normal out put of 1680 hp and 2000 wep, the P-47 D-25 had a normal output of 2000 hp and 2300 wep. The below the fuselage swept wings gave the corsair a higher instantaneous initial turn rate, but made it very unstable at slow speeds. While The turn rate on the p-47 was less that the corsairs, the roll rate was greater than any of any US aircraft and /or european. Pilots of neither plane were taught to turn fight yet the Corsair IS represented as a turnfighter.

Anyone who has experience with Turbo chargers or Superchargers can tell you that in Combat theaters, neither was set to factory settings. The were all tweaked as far as the cheif mechanic would dare.  Republic took 2 R-2800 C type engines, place them on test stands and tweaked them to the max. they output 3600 hp and ran for 250 hours. Republic had a Major campain throughout WWII to have the P-47 regarded as the best. You don't suppose that the results of those tests would have been kept secret ? What is advertised is what Republic would Warranty to the US Military, not the whole truth.

Even 51 pilots concede that the 47 was a better high alt fighter, what makes Corsair pilots think they are better? The Corsair was cinsidered out classed at high alt in Europe, by the British.

[rshubert]

Originally posted by Engine
Just curious, do you know offhand why there was such a sharp production drop in October and November?

Probably tooling up for the N model.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by joeblogs
I read somwehere that Republic had already destroyed all the tooling for the plane so they couldn't supply parts.  The P-51 was used instead even though it was not as good a fighter bomber.

-Blogs

There were hundreds of P-47s (mostly Ns) in service with Air Guard units in 1950. No one in the Military has yet to state why they were not deployed to Korea. Most Air Guard units flying P-51Ds received deployment orders within weeks of the N. Korean invasion.

Personally, I'm convinced this was the result of the "Mustang Mafia" being in command at the time. As a ground attack and close support aircraft, the P-47N was superior to the P-51, not only in lifting ability, but in reliability and range. Yeah, the P-47N had a greater combat radius than the P-51D by about 100 miles.

My regards,

Widewing

[-ammo-]

Originally posted by Widewing
As a ground attack and close support aircraft, the P-47N was superior to the P-51, not only in lifting ability, but in reliability and range. Yeah, the P-47N had a greater combat radius than the P-51D by about 100 miles.

My regards,

Widewing

Not only that, but the P-47 is just classier, and much better looking..and I am NOT bias.

[Stegahorse]

The P-47 N was not chosen because:
There just were not enough of them  left in the USAF and
Most of the pilots that went to korea like the 51 better until they realized that the prop planes were doing ground support

[frank3]

P-47N was designed to escort the B-36's wasn't it?

[MiloMorai]

Originally posted by frank3
P-47N was designed to escort the B-36's wasn't it?

The first flight of the XB-36 took place Aug. 8 1946. A wee bit late for a escort P-47N.  The P-47N could not have escorted the B-36 to its target, just like the P-47D could not escort the B-17/B-24s to most targets in Europe - lack of range.

The long ranges (at the time) in the Pacific were what the P-47N was designed for.

[F4UDOA]

Stegahorse,

Are you making this stuff up or did you really read that somewhere?

The P-47 had a very average roll rate compared to most contemporary fighters with the N as a possible exception. However I have never seen roll data on the N.

As far as the F4U being a stall fighter it wasn't in comparison with Japanese A/C. But compared to American Fighters it turned very well, inside the P-47 with ease as well as the P-51. The F4U had a stall speed roughly 20MPH below the P-47.

BTW, I have the British AFDU report on the F4U and F6F. I don't remember reading anywhere about being out classed in Europe.

Have you ever read the reports testing the F4U-1 vrs the FW190A5 or P-51B?

Also your HP ratings are way off.

The F4U-1 used the PWR2800-8 or 8W with water injection.

That engine put out 2,000HP at sea level with no water and 2,150HP in the early -1A and 2250HP in later F4U-1A/1D.

The P-47 with no water also put out 2,000HP and anywhere from 2300HP to 2600HP in later than the D27 model.

Even with that a 14500LB P-47D30 with 2600HP still has poor power loading compared to the F4U-1D at 2250HP.

P-47D-30
14,500LBS/2600HP= 5.57

F4U-1D
12,175LBS/2250HP= 5.41

Wingloading for turning is even worse for the P-47

P-47
14500LBS/300SQFT=48.33

F4U-1D
12,175LBS/314SQFT= 38.77

Hence the very high stall of the P-47.


Take a look here.

F4U/F6F vrs FW190

P-51B vrs F4U-1

[joeblogs]

I stand corrected.  I have no idea why someone would take a P51 for a ground attack roll when a P-47 is available.

-Blogs

Originally posted by Widewing
There were hundreds of P-47s (mostly Ns) in service with Air Guard units in 1950. No one in the Military has yet to state why they were not deployed to Korea. Most Air Guard units flying P-51Ds received deployment orders within weeks of the N. Korean invasion.

Personally, I'm convinced this was the result of the "Mustang Mafia" being in command at the time. As a ground attack and close support aircraft, the P-47N was superior to the P-51, not only in lifting ability, but in reliability and range. Yeah, the P-47N had a greater combat radius than the P-51D by about 100 miles.

My regards,

Widewing

[Stegahorse]

I've dug through the Arcives, sifted official USAAF/USAF documents both in National archives and USAF history archives. Here are the results:
P47-total built
B----170 none left USA
C----602 a few went Europe
D--11,543 in total
D-11---750
D-25---383  Actual built
D-25,26,27,28-3120 grouped as D-25
D-30---2000
D-40---1285
G------354 Curtis built trainers
M------1025
N------1800 and about 300 after VJ
B+C+D+G+M+N=15,500 and USAAF reports
recieving 15,585. Therefore these numbers
are in line.

D-25 becomes a low numbered variant. I added the ones from 25 to 28 because they were likely called D-25.
Maybe that 170 Ms went to Europe, they appeared in Euro in Jan'45 and On the line by Feb '45
The rest went to Pacific, but I have no info as to their delivery.
Could be most were swept off the carriers before delivery.

[nuchpatrick]

Euro P-47M's were flown solely by the 56th FG in 44-45.  I forget the site at hand but somewhere in the books its also listed.

[Stegahorse]

Yes, 355th fighter Group, 354th, 357th, and 358th squads.

The oddity is that HTC won't allow low production variants and the D-25 technically is one of them.

[-ammo-]

Stega said-

Yes, 355th fighter Group, 354th, 357th, and 358th squads.

[/b]


I am 99% positive that you are mistaken about the P-47M in action.  The ONLY unit that I know of that flew the P-47M in combat were the three squadrons of the 56th Fighter Group, 61st, 62cd,  and the 63rd Fighter Squadrons.