Author Topic: The "Wing" (Read 1526 times)

MiloMorai · « **Reply #15 on:** May 05, 2003, 11:28:16 PM »

And the Horten was mostly made of wood - good radar reflections from wood.

Am curious to what Northrop would have got from the Hortens. The a/c never flew at operational speeds so one cannot say they were aerodynamically ahead of their time in 1945. The brothers even talk about adding a vertical surface.

FLS · « **Reply #16 on:** May 06, 2003, 01:45:32 AM »

Here's a great site for flying wings.

http://www.nurflugel.com/Nurflugel/nurflugel.html

The B2 owes more to the Horten design than to the Northrup.

--)-FLS-----
Musketeers

funkedup · « **Reply #17 on:** May 06, 2003, 10:58:07 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by FLS
The B2 owes more to the Horten design than to the Northrup.

CoughBULL****Cough

N9M

Imp · « **Reply #18 on:** May 06, 2003, 12:01:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Furball
I used to have a book called 'last talons of the eagle' if i remember correctly the Horten brothers were making flying wings earlier than that, but for another company. They started making their own later.

I may be mistaken, ill try to find it

You cant find it cause I stole it from you

But seriously thats one interesting book.

You can read about an attack glider project

Or Lippisch's coal powered ramjet project

HoHun · « **Reply #19 on:** May 06, 2003, 01:40:35 PM »

Hi Milo,

>Am curious to what Northrop would have got from the Hortens. The a/c never flew at operational speeds so one cannot say they were aerodynamically ahead of their time in 1945.

Efficiency :-) That's what you'll learn from designing gliders!

(Actually, I just looked it up, and Northrop's N-9M test aircraft flew first in 1942. I'm not sure Northrop could have known enough about the Horten flying wings to learn anything new. On the other hand, some of the German sailplane research had been made available for anyone interested.)

>The brothers even talk about adding a vertical surface.

The Northrop flying wing pilots talk about directional instability and yaw oscillations. And if you look at the engine installations on the Northrop, their lateral area (behind the centre of gravity) obviously was considered a nice secondary feature :-)

(Actually, efficient flying wings might really have needed fly-by-wire, which was still in its infancy in the 1940s.)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

FLS · « **Reply #20 on:** May 06, 2003, 02:06:04 PM »

Northrup didn't have a flying wing until 1940. He flew a twin boomed aircraft in 1929 that was hardly a flying wing.

After the Hortens had been producing flying wings for seven
years, Northrup's new design in 1940 was remarkably similar to the Horten's.

--)-FLS-----
Musketeers

SlapShot · « **Reply #21 on:** May 06, 2003, 02:18:52 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Furball
take your pick http://www.luft46.com/horten/horten.html

you are probably thinking of this tho: Ho229

Furball ... where did you get that picture ... Is it available in a size that will fit on the desktop ?

Furball · « **Reply #22 on:** May 06, 2003, 02:52:17 PM »

from there and thats the only size

Black Sheep · « **Reply #23 on:** May 06, 2003, 03:04:31 PM »

CFS3 has a Go229 wing in its arsenal of fantasy flights - along with a few others that are pretty cool

funkedup · « **Reply #24 on:** May 06, 2003, 03:36:59 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by FLS
Northrup didn't have a flying wing until 1940. He flew a twin boomed aircraft in 1929 that was hardly a flying wing.

After the Hortens had been producing flying wings for seven
years, Northrup's new design in 1940 was remarkably similar to the Horten's.

--)-FLS-----
Musketeers

It's true that the N1M is similar to the Horten V.
But the B-2 is more similar to the N9M/B-35/B-49 than any of the Horten designs. Most notable similarities are the split elevons for yaw control and the landing gear configuration.

HoHun · « **Reply #25 on:** May 06, 2003, 04:29:29 PM »

Hi Funked,

>But the B-2 is more similar to the N9M/B-35/B-49 than any of the Horten designs. Most notable similarities are the split elevons for yaw control and the landing gear configuration.

I think the interesting details are rather subtle, like use of wing sections and their tapering, washout etc., and won't be readily noticable.

The site

http://www.nurflugel.com/Nurflugel/nurflugel.html

is rather interesting, it has articles both by one of the Horten brothers and by Northrop.

Horten's introduction starts with controllability and stall behavior, Northrop's with lift and performance. I'd say that's glider vs. powered plane mentality ;-)

Northrop himself states that his designs and the Hortens' had many similarities. He also admits that after an N-9M spun in, they spent considerable time and effort on improving the design so that couldn't happen again.

As far as I know, the Hortens didn't have any similar accidents, which could be seen as a sign they were ahead of Northrop in some way. It could also be seen as a sign that Northrop worked independendly, encountered his own problems and found his own solution.

I don't think similarity necessarily implies plagiarism - Whittle and von Ohain provide great examples for duplicate but independend inventions.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

AGJV44_Rot 1 · « **Reply #26 on:** May 10, 2003, 09:07:15 PM »

Got ya all beat I have pictures of the Gotha that they captured. Saw it in Silver Springs and she is tiny, but that was its design small hard to hit and fast as ****.

Grun is right and it did fly under its own power, one was lost after engine failure in flight as well. So I guess that kills whats his names theory that it didn't fly under power.

davidpt40 · « **Reply #27 on:** May 11, 2003, 06:56:20 AM »

I am glad those things came too late. They would have smashed through U.S. bomber formations with ease.

gatso · « **Reply #28 on:** May 11, 2003, 07:00:38 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by AGJV44_Rot 1
Got ya all beat I have pictures of the Gotha that they captured. Saw it in Silver Springs and she is tiny, but that was its design small hard to hit and fast as ****.

That is one place I would love to walk around. Post your pics if you've got some gooduns please!

I knew I'd seen pics of a jet powered Horten wing in rough shape, mention of NASM Silver Springs gave the old memory a kick. There's a few decent pics out there on the web but they're all of pretty much the same angles.

Gatso

Furball · « **Reply #29 on:** May 11, 2003, 07:02:21 AM »

damn! someone needs to pull their finger out and set about restoring that!