Author Topic: Name This...(507) (Read 788 times)

brady · « **Reply #15 on:** May 11, 2003, 01:19:32 PM »

The Spw 251/12 had a frame areial aray the above example does not.

Shiva · « **Reply #16 on:** May 12, 2003, 08:45:47 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by brady
The Spw 251/12 had a frame areial aray the above example does not.

Not all the 251/12s did; only some of the vehicles mounted the FuG 8 radio and frame antenna that the later 251/6 m Kdo Pz Wg carried; other 251/12s had the same variations in radio gear as the 251/6. Contrast this early 251/6:

with this one:

Pongo · « **Reply #17 on:** May 12, 2003, 10:11:19 AM »

It would seem wierd to me to have the rear mg34 on an observation track.

Heater · « **Reply #18 on:** May 12, 2003, 10:28:18 AM »

Come on guy's

It's a Target!

brady · « **Reply #19 on:** May 12, 2003, 12:56:25 PM »

SPW 251/6's were equiped with FuG11+ FuG Tr 100mw, this had a frame areail, and later a 9meater winch mast.

Later vershions had the FuG19 + FuG12, these set's would I beleave post date the Early war Cross on this example pictured above.

Also I should be able to see the FuG 5 areail but I cant see it in this pick, which leads me to beleave this is just a SPW 251/1 "B", sincne not all of them were fited with radio's, and I have seen several picks of both A's and B's fitted with this Map Table.

brady · « **Reply #20 on:** May 12, 2003, 01:23:02 PM »

Hear is an example of another SPW 251 with a map table yet again it is a "B".

Shiva · « **Reply #21 on:** May 12, 2003, 03:46:51 PM »

The 251/6 command and 251/3 radio-vehicles are hard to tell apart. Initially the /3 was "renumbered". From the first days of the war this vehicle is issued to division-commanders and higher ranking officers (often equipped with Enigma coding-decoding device). Later in the war when more vehicles come available they are used more extensively to control formations and for liaison with tank-formations. The early vehicles are relatively rare, but photographed very often. The differences in equipment are enormous. The biggest difference between 251/3 and 251/6 is the office like function of the 251/6 with various decoding and deciphering apparatus. Many radio configurations are seen. Distinguishing is best done by the antenna. Generally speaking the frame-aerial is the one in the beginning of the war. Being to conspicuous it disappears structurally in 1942 in favor of the star aerial and the 8 meter rod-type. Frame antenna's are seen on A,B and C versions. Several front modifications are known. One photograph even shows an antenna from an SdKfz 232 (8 rad). D versions and some C versions are seen with a star antenna. Often a scissors binocular is seen. Late in the war infra-red equipment is reported on the 251/6. This could easily be the 251/18. A field modification often mistaken for the 251/18 is a large platform above the drivers compartment serving as a map table. This is seen on A and B versions only. Since the numbering consisted of up to number 251/12 in 1942 a 251/18 cannot be on a /A body. The frame-version is still seen in 1944. Most D's have the star antenna. Many field-manufactured versions are photographed. Luftwaffe unit's sometimes use the 10 meter "Flivo" pole-antenna. There is a picture of a 251/6 with a S Pzb 41. Some sources separate 5, some 9, versions of radio-equipment.

Radio configurations that have been described in various documents include:

FuG11 - FuG Tr. (Before 1943)
FuG11 - FuG12 - Kdo.Fu.Tr. with 9 meter pole antenna and frame.
FuG12 - FuG19
Fu.Tr.100Mw(gp)
Fu.Tr.80Mw(gp)
Fu.Tr.30Mw(gp)
Fu.Tr.15Kzw(gp)

Renumbered 251/3s would have one of several radio configurations:
251/3.1 carrying FU-8 and FU-4
251/3.2 carrying FU-8 and FU-5, the tank formation radio.
251/3.3 carrying FU-7 and FU-1, for air-ground co-ordination
251/3.4 carrying FU11, FU1 and FU12, command version
251/3.5 carrying FU11, and FU1, command version

Given the number of different radio and antenna configurations, as well as the number of one-off conversions done in the field (including 'home-made' frame and spar antennae), we could argue for years over which specific version the vehicle is, and without being able to ask one of the people in the picture we'll likely never be sure.

frank3 · « **Reply #22 on:** May 13, 2003, 09:30:19 AM »

It's a Hanomag Sdkfz 251/1, I assume it's mentioned before, but I dont intend to read everything.
Also I've got a whole list with differend types with their functions, only can't post it. (know nothing about webhosting...)

brady · « **Reply #23 on:** May 13, 2003, 01:13:04 PM »

Shiva, I agree that the radio antena's are most likely the best means for determing the exact type beyond a certain point, my refrence for radio's and antena's indicates that it cant be a 3 or a 6 do to the lack of the frame areails on these early war examples, while the first vehical has no antenas at all it seams clear that it is simply a 251/1 ausf B, the second pick is a bt more confusing in that the atena areay does not in any way match the configurations that a 3 or a 6 would have so most likely it is a 251/1 ausf B that has been modifed with an extrat radio, since both of these 251's are pictured at the same location it is likely they are part of an HQ/ Comand element and it is entierly posable that were simply not seeing their 251/3 or 251/6 comunacations tracks pictured.

They are interesting picks though:)