Tighten your seat belts and never fly with a russian a/c

[GRUNHERZ]

But the external event was how will I say it, uhhm "reality".. The concorde was simply too inefficent and unproductive. Look at this way given an equal number of planes which of the two will move a very large number of people across the atlantic both faster and cheaper - the answer is the 747. Who cares if you are going at mach 2 when you have to make 5 trips to match the load of a single 747 in one trip. And thats why the 747 won and was succesful while concorde failed miserably.  The only counter to this is to belive that france and the UK were intentionaly always  making air "ferraris" for a few rich multi-millionaire to play with at $10k a pop.... Now who belives that?

[straffo]

Well, the devellopement didn't go like expected.

The 1st batch was 20 planes (the one currently flying) and the 2nd batch was supposed to be a 500 plane batch.

And 500 planes is more democratic than the aristocratic 20

[GRUNHERZ]

But nobody wanted them beacuse the 747 was simply so much better.

The concorde is cool and beutiful for sure but it is just as much a business failiure as it is pretty.

[straffo]

hehe

Do you know that in the concorde cockpit there is some part so tight (I hope to use the right word) that a sheet of paper can't pass but in supersonic flight you can pass the whole hand ?

[Boroda]

Seatbelts, hehe... What seatbelts?... IL-76 can hardly be called a pasenger plane. Passengers are usually guys wearing blue berets, AKs and parachutes, they don't need any seatbelts.

If I unerstood correctly there was a Ukrainian crew? And they say there are no casualities? As usual Looks like they never learn

A friend of mine wanted to go to Kongo in mid-90s as a cargo supervisor (in fact an only man who knows French and English in a Russian-Ukrainian crew), but then the famous An-24 crashed into a marketplace...

People who worked there said the planes are always heavily overloaded, everyone who buys a ticket thinks he can bring his whole family with him, with cows pigs and sheeps. The poor An-24 simply could't take off and ran right into a marketplace... Airline "company" that owned it stated they will pay for every victim. It turned into something like: "Hey, I heard you buried your grandma last week, let's dig her out and get the money from Russians!"  

[Naso]

This discussion about Concorde and 747 is, IMHO, flawed by an herroneus assumption.

It's herroneus to compare the two as they were a concorrential/mutually exclusive concepts, it's not the question.

The fact stay in the market, in the target.

One was intended to satisfy the "as quick as possible, almost no matter the price" customers. (Concorde)

The other was to satisfy the "as cheap as possible, almost no matter the time" customers. (747)

Apples and oranges.

Two great planes that in the respective niche have a place in history.

There's no reason to confront them, unless for a personal agenda (pissing contest/my plane is bigger than your/bash France/Bash America.... etc. etc.).

[Fishu]

Boroda,

You'd think it would be the crews and airfield personels job to keep out these who thinks they can bring whole family and their farm, after all its pretty obvious for the crew and anyone who knows something about the planes, that those aren't like the busses, which can go even with people hanging from the sides, back and roof, while the inside is stuffed up.
noo sire.. planes cannot fly like that.

however still they let them do it?-)

[AKIron]

Originally posted by Naso
The other was to satisfy the "as cheap as possible, almost no matter the time" customers. (747)

If that were true they'd have built busses.



or ships

And the 747 has a top speed of 604mph and 566mph cruising speed.

[Naso]

Originally posted by AKIron
If that were true they'd have built busses.



or ships

And the 747 has a top speed of 604mph and 566mph cruising speed.

Yeah, sure



or zeppelins

......

Iron, I dont understand this defensive position you have.

Someone touched your loved 747??

747 IS part of Aviation history, a plane that have his place "in the eternity", like the Concorde.

What's wrong in this statement?

[AKIron]

Naso, having crossed the Pacific 10 times in a 747 I assure you that I have no love for it. Your post contrasting the Concorde and the 747 was just a bit ridiculous and I was pointing out to you that 600mph isn't exactly "no matter the time".

[Naso]

Originally posted by AKIron
Naso, having crossed the Pacific 10 times in a 747 I assure you that I have no love for it. Your post contrasting the Concorde and the 747 was just a bit ridiculous and I was pointing out to you that 600mph isn't exactly "no matter the time".

AKIron, I dont know if my post is particularly obscure, but I was simply stating that the 2 planes cannot be compared, so all this moaning and battling about who's better is pointless.

You wanted to read it in "reverse mode", I gentle ask you to re-read it.

BTW, I liked the 747, I would have liked to try the experience of the Concorde.

[Staga]

Comparising 747 and Concorde is just like comparing a bus and a Porsche.
One can haul boat loads of tulips from place A to place B and has plenty of room.
Another one hasn't but we all know in which one we would rather sit.

[GRUNHERZ]

No staga. They were after the same market - unless it is also your belief that concorde was only ever meant to be a limited plaything for the rich from the start. Thats your "porsche: analogy right there.  Do you really think the UK and Franch spent billions with the intent to just buld a dozen of them to transport rock stars and CEO's for $10,000 a pop?

[Naso]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
No staga. They were after the same market - unless it is also your belief that concorde was only ever meant to be a limited plaything for the rich from the start. Thats your "porsche: analogy right there.  Do you really think the UK and Franch spent billions with the intent to just buld a dozen of them to transport rock stars and CEO's for $10,000 a pop?

Grun, in case you mean market in the sense of "passenger air transportation", yes, they are in the same market but for two different targets (niches) in the same market.

Or can be intended as "air transportation system", with "long range market", "Regional market", "Hi speed market"... etc.

In both case what differ is the target.

Moving the analogy to the "wheel transportation market", the Porche and the WV Golf are both cars, but are not intended to be selled to the same target, one is for "status symbol, fast expensive car market (/niche)" the latter is for "commuter, city, low price market (/niche)".

To be clear on what I meant, we can use as example 747/DC10/A340, all of them "long range, high capacity, wide body" planes, perfectly comparable because intended, projected and produced for the same market/niche.

[added]

As a final note, comparing 747 with Concorde is the same of comparing a cessna 172 with the said 747.

[Ozark]

AIR CRASH RESCUE NEWS:

May 14, 2003 - Cargo Plane Door 'Wasn't Fastened Properly'

CONGO - A policeman who survived an air accident in which at least 100 passengers fell to their deaths, says the plane's cargo bay door wasn't fastened properly.

Sergeant Kabmba Kashala said attempts to shut it mid-flight failed, and it finally sprung open at 33,000 feet - 45 minutes after the Russian-built Ilyushin 76 took off from Kinshasa, in the Democratic Republic of Congo.Sergeant Kashala said: "I was just next to the door and I had the chance to grab on to a ladder just before the door let loose."Fellow survivor, Lieutenant Ilunga Mambaza, said: "When the back door opened, I fell down and lots of boxes covered me. Lots of my colleagues were sucked out by the wind. I fainted." He estimated 350 passengers were aboard, including about 100 women and children.

Bebe Kahoma, his wife, said the shock apparently caused two pregnant women to miscarry. She added: "Us women, we had a little bit of luck because we had been placed close to the cabin, therefore far from the door, but we sustained some damages."

Congolese military helicopters are searching for bodies near the city of Mbuji-Mayi, over which the plane lost its door en-route to the southeastern city of Lubumbashi.Two officials at Kinshasa's international airport said 129 people are feared dead. A third official estimated the toll was about half that, saying the exact figure could be difficult to determine because of an incomplete flight manifest.

Government spokesman Kikaya Bin Karubi said seven people are confirmed dead, while Ukraine's defence ministry - which owns the plane and leased it for use - denied anyone had died and disputed details of the survivors' accounts.

A Ukrainian defence ministry spokesman said that about 40 seconds after takeoff, the captain noted that the cabin was depressurising, requested a landing and successfully returned the to the airport.

Saying he was citing officials of the state-owned company that operates the aircraft, Ukrainian Cargo Airlines, he added: "Neither the people, nor the cargo, nor the plane itself were hurt or damaged."