Anti-virus software and this game

[Chairboy]

Sorry Maniac, but you have again displayed your ignorance.  Modern AV software uses heuristics that will catch a virus that has been modified slightly.  In addition, good AV software will also examine script engine behavior and prevent an email worm from propagating using Outlook's script engine.

I'm not a Symantec shill here, any of my other posts that mention firewalls or AV should show this, but I would like to point out that Norton Antivirus has the features I mentioned and has consistently outperformed all of the competition.

Your AV knowledge seems to be about 5 years out of date, but ignorance is not fatal.  I suggest reading up on the current state of technology and re-acquainting yourself with modern computing threats.  If you have specific questions, please feel free to email me.

[Maniac]

Sorry Maniac, but you have again displayed your ignorance. Modern AV software uses heuristics that will catch a virus that has been modified slightly.

Wich version are you speaking of? please post it, i know about heuristics, and i know about the false triggers it causes to.. The CPU´s need to an teeny bit faster then todays CPU´s to be able to utilize this...

Please post the AV software and version and ill pick it up tomorrow and do some testing.

Sorry Maniac, but you have again displayed your ignorance.

My ignorance? because i didnt mention heuristics? please feel free to prove me wrong on anything i posted... I KNOW i can prove you wrong... For the everyday user to be running with heuristics scan enabled they need an fast comp, and thats final, it actually pics every file apart and does scans..

Heuristics certainly is the way to go for AV companies, but the Heuristic scans today can be beaten, even if it set on full Heuristic scan, djust hex edit, then pack , then scramble , then add some more bytes , then do the whole process all over again an couple of times, change the icon again etc etc...

P.S i wont mess with worms tough....

[Chairboy]

Howdy Maniac,

Your enthusiasm is refreshing, but you're still a bit off.  Norton Antivirus has heuristics enabled by default, that's part of why it is the best scoring anti-virus program at detecting virii, both known and unknown.  It's not 100% perfect at catching every new virus, not by a longshot, but it's better then the competition.

I've noticed that your steps on how to defeat anti-virus software have gotten more complex as you reply.  Originally you suggested that you'd just need 10 minutes with a hex editor, then you suggested "hex edit, then pack , then scramble , then add some more bytes , then do the whole process all over again an couple of times, change the icon again etc etc... "

All of this seems to forget that the virus has to actually run, and at the point it decrypts itself and starts executing, NAV (and other competent AV programs) should catch it.

The fact of the matter is this: A good, modern heuristics engine like the Bloodhound engine in NAV does not need some super karate monkey death car CPU to run effectively.  I have a P90 that I was using to run as my NAT server and more until recently that had a modern copy of NAV running with no performance problems.

You also mentioned that there is no difference between the AV companies other then how fast they update their websites and release definitions, and that's just not true either.  Our (as in the industry) products live and die on the technology that we innovate to stay ahead of the competition, and that's good.  If you dismiss the differences between AV products as cosmetic, then it really betrays a lack of understanding of the cut-throat innovation that goes into each product release.

Your comments keep suggesting that you're a bit behind the curve, and that's something you can correct.  Please don't take this as an attack, I'm identifying something you should be aware of.  I would suggest that you reconsider advertising yourself as a self professed computer security expert until you study up.  

The state of computer security did not sit still over the last 5 years, there have been some significant changes.  Once you brush up on that stuff, I'm sure you'll be a great resource for people who need help, but your advice to forget about antivirus programs is really dangerous.

[BigMax]

Originally posted by rc51
Why Is this the only online game I play that I have to disable
my anti virus software?
I really don't like being online with my pants around my ankles.
HTC Can't you write the code so people don't have to shut down there anti virus software?

Just give Aces High permission to access the Internet in you FireWall Software (assuming you are using a firewall). Anti-virus software has never caused me a single problem...  I use Norton Internet Security and Virus Protection.

[GunnerCAF]

RC51,

I use Zone Alarm, and leave it running when I play AH.  It can be a pain to get it to work.  Here is what I do:

Start up AH, click "On Line" , then at the password window press "OK"  (try not to move your mouse)


Press "r" "y"
 
If your lucky, it will continue.  If it locks up, you need to do a hard shutdown... I kill the power... then reboot and try it again.  It sometimes takes several tries for it to work.  Once you get it to work, you will not have to do this again until the next version comes out.  You will need to do it all over again.

If I can't get this to work, I delete AH in ZA, and manually put it in.  Make sure you allow AH to access the internet without a prompt.

What happens is the ZA pop-up box comes up, and you can't see it.  When you press "r", this sellects the "Remember" box.  When you press "y" it allows AH to access the internet.


Gunner

[FOGOLD]

Skuzzy seems absolutely insistent that there is no need to have any firewall or webtrap running when playing AH. I'm not so sure, but the implication is that the sever itself is absolutely secure.

[Chairboy]

Whether the game server is secure or not makes no difference, the customer machine is whats vulnerable.  A personal firewall is not for protecting you against HTC, it's for protecting you against all the people that run portscanners and various trojan horse controllers and more looking for machines that are vulnerable.

[Maniac]

OK Chairboy, lets take it from the start of this thread, an little bit of recap...

I said this :

You should read up on what an anti-virus software does... I can say this you are not safe djust because you have an anti-virus software installed.

Where is this not true? please tell me...

I said this :

The ultimate fun is to have an sales representant of an Anti-virus software on an buisiness meeting, and you shoot big holes in their product.

I know this is were you got ticked off, for sure... Did you see where i said sales-representant, do you know what they say when they trying to sell your products? i guess not.

I said this :

The COMMON computer user is fooled by the AV industry

As you can read, i said COMMON computer user, the majority of people who have an AV software installed think their safe to do whatever they want without being infected.

But you have to install servicepacks, update the AV engine, update the Virus patterns, and how many common users keeps up with this do you think?.

Add to it that they also get an "firewall" then they feel really safe lol! i wont get into ports and firewall bypassing in this thread (memory injection etc)....

YOU SAID :

Sorry Maniac, but you have again displayed your ignorance. Modern AV software uses heuristics that will catch a virus that has been modified slightly.

I say i that modern AV software that uses heuristics are still fooled... 10 mins of hex editing 2 mins of packing and scrambling the the file, and the virus/backdoor is still fully funktional (sp?).

YOU SAID :

I've noticed that your steps on how to defeat anti-virus software have gotten more complex as you reply. Originally you suggested that you'd just need 10 minutes with a hex editor, then you suggested "hex edit, then pack , then scramble , then add some more bytes , then do the whole process all over again an couple of times, change the icon again etc etc... "

Yes thats true, i didnt mention packing and scrambling and adding bytes at first, and guess what? you didnt mention heuristics at first either. You have to take different steps to beat different AV software, thats completly true indeed...

Again the Common computer wouldnt want huristics enabled on their workstation/gaming rig, why? try to run Aces High with FULL heuristic scan on. I think you will get my point... Take an moment and read Saws post in the beginning, i dont even think he is using heuristic scan and guess what it still boggs down his computer while playing games.

As you running it on your P90 thats handles your NAT, big fing deal...

YOU SAID :

The state of computer security did not sit still over the last 5 years, there have been some significant changes. Once you brush up on that stuff, I'm sure you'll be a great resource for people who need help, but your advice to forget about antivirus programs is really dangerous.

And here you are putting words in my mouth... Where exactly did i say "forget about antivirus software" ? ? ? ? Thats right i never did.... Since im still 5 years behind please enlighten me further LOL!!!

[Chairboy]

Maniac,

I realize you feel strongly about your skills, and if you find yourself feeling defensive, I'll back off.  Additionally, if you can't conduct yourself with a modicum of respect (as I have endeavored to do on my part) in our conversation, then I see no further point to discussing this with you.  

I'm not trying to "dis" you, I thought you had made an honest mistake.  If you're not interested in learning about the reality of modern computer security, that's your decision and there's nothing I can do to change it.

I wish you well in your future projects, and I hope that you take the opportunity to brush up on your security basics before offering potentially dangerous advice to novice computer users.

Regards,

Chairboy

[Maniac]

I wish you well in your future projects, and I hope that you take the opportunity to brush up on your security basics before offering potentially dangerous advice to novice computer users.

Again, what is it that i have said in this thread that is wrong? please DO point it out for me.

I never said : DONT USE AV

I said : Djust because you use AV you are not safe (same thing with firewall)

Its an big differance bro.

and if you find yourself feeling defensive, I'll back off.

Back off? all you have done in this thread is insulting my security knowledge, AV software knowlegde actually, you have not provided any substance to your claims... Im still waiting for this...

Have an nice day.

[spiffykraits]

Originally posted by GunnerCAF
RC51,

I use Zone Alarm, and leave it running when I play AH.  It can be a pain to get it to work.  Here is what I do:

Start up AH, click "On Line" , then at the password window press "OK"  (try not to move your mouse)


Press "r" "y"
 
If your lucky, it will continue.  If it locks up, you need to do a hard shutdown... I kill the power... then reboot and try it again.  It sometimes takes several tries for it to work.  Once you get it to work, you will not have to do this again until the next version comes out.  You will need to do it all over again.
If I can't get this to work, I delete AH in ZA, and manually put it in.  Make sure you allow AH to access the internet without a prompt.

What happens is the ZA pop-up box comes up, and you can't see it.  When you press "r", this sellects the "Remember" box.  When you press "y" it allows AH to access the internet.


Gunner

Of course you can actually "buy" the "Pro" version of ZA for a year and you can then add AH.exe manually to its pass through list to allow it to access the Internet while still blocking ports for others.  No need then to use the above rigmarolle.  That is only for the freebie ZA.

There is also an option in ZA Pro to label AH as changing frequently (whick takes care of updates to the exe file)

Personally I use Norton Internet Security plus AntiVirus.  I don't have AV running while playing AH but do have Norton Security active which does stop Trojan attempts (quite common). Everything else is closed down while playing, and my mail programs are on a networked machine seperate from my main gateway games machine, and it doesn't use Outlook or Outlook express for mail programs-there are others!

[Maniac]

I would suggest using Lotus Notes instead of outlook

[GunnerCAF]

Your right Spiffy:)   ZA Pro is well worth the money.  Nortons is also a good firewall.

I prefer to keep them all running when I play, as long as my PC isn't under powered and it can handle the load.  It just makes things easier.

Gunner

[WhiteHawk]

Hheheh..Chairboy and manic need to 'hack each others  computers' duel.
  I run my puter fully naked and unprotected at all times.  Nobody
messes with me..  No cahllange I spose.  But i dont open
emails unless a apersonal note is attached.

[2Hawks]

Is to have a firewall completly independant of the system you are gaming on.

I have gotten better throughput in any configuration be it modem or cable using a Dedicated Linux Firewall.

More info can be found @ http://leaf.sourceforge.net

2Hawks