The Risk of Doing Nothing

[OIO]

No sandman. Read previous Penemunde reference.

Or let me put it in simple terms for you:

Hussein=crazy arab dictator with deep hatred of the USA and who ordered the development and deployment of chemical weapons against human beings and was trying to develop nuclear weaponry.

Bin Laden=see above, remove the dictator part, replace it with "terrorrist" and replace "ordered" and "trying to develop" with "trying to get his hands on"

Iraq= place where Hussein houses his weapons programme. Also home to all the scientists that developed said weapons programme.

Now that you have the basics...

Q:How would you get rid of the threat of WMD's falling into the hands of those like bin laden?

A: You find the source/likely source of WMD's that has a high probability of providing said WMD's to the likes of bin laden and you ELIMINATE said threat.

And the only way to eliminate the threat is not by demanding the destruction of the current stockpile of WMD's that they KNOW exist (as proven by their use on humans a few decades earlier) and relying on some love muffin international organization to make it happen. No, the threat is only eliminated by taking over their facilities and neutralizing their scientists. You can bet your wiener that dozens of those scientists found in Iraq are no longer breathing or if they are they are *very* well incarcerated in the US mainland.

And if you were Hussein, knowing that the most powerful military in the world is coming a-knockin' on your door after making a drama worthy of a 10 year long soap opera about how evil you are by having WMD's stockpiled up and you knew there was no chance in hell your pathetic conscripted 3rd rate military could stop them...

how do you win? Hussein is not stupid. The only victory he could pull was to bring down US credibility by destroying his WMD's and making it appear he was just an innocent little dictator swatted because chimpy in the white house wanted his oil. boohoo. Never mind it would also rattle all the other arab states and such.

So far, Hussein is winnning the Public Relations war, which is the only one the average citizen in the world with access to TV sees. The REAL war, the one to eliminate the threat of terrorrism, is so far being won by the US and its true allies.

I say, turn off the fuking TV and THINK about things. So far you've only been regurgitating the crap the boobtube has fed you.

You may now return to your regular flamefest!

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

My belief about Iraq's WMD hasn't come up. I do believe they have them, I don't know how much they have and how readily available they were to be put into actual use in a coordinated effort through long range delivery methods.

I do believe that if Saddam was taken out by one of those bunker busters, he had a good number of high ranking officials who had the know-how to put the WMD to use, or how to get it prepared for use, with him when he met his fate... so they likely met theirs with him.

The remaining military officials more than likely were going to fight back using conventional means because they knew they faced certain death if they used WMD, and without Saddam giving them "do this or death" orders- then the whole WMD scenario, if one existed, more than likely never entered into their military actions.
-SW

[Arlo]

lol nm

[Sandman]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't get the feeling that Powell was talking about "know-how" when he stated:

There can be no doubt that Saddam Hussein has biological weapons and the capability to rapidly produce more, many more. And he has the ability to dispense these lethal poisons and diseases in ways that can cause massive death and destruction. If biological weapons seem too terrible to contemplate, chemical weapons are equally chilling.

Our conservative estimate is that Iraq today has a stockpile of between 100 and 500 tons of chemical weapons agent. That is enough agent to fill 16,000 battlefield rockets.

Even the low end of 100 tons of agent would enable Saddam Hussein to cause mass casualties across more than 100 square miles of territory, an area nearly five times the size of Manhattan.

This one is especially rich:

Saddam Hussein has chemical weapons. Saddam Hussein has used such weapons. And Saddam Hussein has no compunction about using them again, against his neighbours and against his own people.

And we have sources who tell us that he recently has authorised his field commanders to use them. He wouldn't be passing out the orders if he didn't have the weapons or the intent to use them.

The above question is a pretty good answer to OZKansas. Colin Powell said so.

[Nash]

Ah... Thin-skinned, defensive and ever sarcastic post number two from Grun which again fails to really address the topic. No thread is complete without at least a couple.

[Nashwan]

At the time, Germany was the only nation with nerve gas. If they had used it, they would have inflicted enormous losses on the allies. Especially since it is doubtful whether the allied gas masks would have been effective at all. Delivery systems? Ever heard of something called V2? V2 for strategic delivery, or Ar 234 bombers and/or arty for tactical delivery...the allies would not have a chance to stop that.

The V2 couldn't deliver nerve gas during the war.

Nerve gas requires an airburst, because a V2 with a contact fuse will destroy the chemical agent on impact (fireballs aren't good for nerve gas). The Germans simply didn't have a suitable fuse.

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by Nash
Ah... Thin-skinned, defensive and ever sarcastic post number two from Grun which again fails to really address the topic. No thread is complete without at least a couple.

But why should I waste the time to adrees these america hater all is lost, doom is near posts in a more constructive manner? Here you guys are criticizing and hating the USA for removing the very nasty and evil dicator you were criticizing the USA yesterday for supporting him the past...  

So again I simply must just give in admit, that yes, America is the greatests evil of all time - nothing comes close...

Up yours your evil dememted freaks, shut up allready we all know where you stand on the whole Saddam vs. USA thing...

[lord dolf vader]

u.s. had gas ( mustard ect) in ww2 and was ready to use it.

and we still have it. funny that.

[GRUNHERZ]

Damn I forgot, you people are so sensitive..

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by lord dolf vader
u.s. had gas ( mustard ect) in ww2 and was ready to use it.

and we still have it. funny that.

Mustard gas is "nice", but its nowhere near as deadly as nerve agents and of course it was well known how to defend against mustard and the other classic chemical weapons after WW1. The Germans were the only ones with nerve agents during WW2 and nobody had much defense against them, typical face only gas masks are entirely ineffective IIRC you need specialized full body clothing and all vehicles must be carefully washed down after attack as any pysical contact with the chemical can be lethal and lets not forget no WW2 tank was overpressurized so the stuff would get inside as well.

[Bodhi]

Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
So instead... the "nbc unit commander" just hid the weapons so thoroughly that the U.S. can't find them?

The weapons left Iraq weeks before the invasion.  Sadaam knew the US would invade and instead of getting caught red handed and further justifing US Action, Arab leaders pressured him too make them dissapear, so this type of action would not happen against them. So, he got around it by selling them to his neighbor Syria and terrorists.  Fear not, they will be found in time.  Unfortunately, some will be found when they are used on innocents.  BUt the good thing is, the regime that continued to manufacture them is gone, and that alone justifies the invasion.

[anonymous]

Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
So instead... the "nbc unit commander" just hid the weapons so thoroughly that the U.S. can't find them?

look at it this way dude. surveillance from many different source showed sign of activity that had one possible motive and that motive was production of chem and bio weapon agent in as stealthy a manner as possible. even with wmd and tangos its still true to say "if it looks like a duck swims like a duck quacks like a duck odds are pretty ****in good its a duck and needs to be killed by tonight at the latest". this is not a situation where the report is gonna be delivered with unassailable proof to un three month after end of war. Powell was cleared for and saw data that he couldnt use with un. Powell is not mindless slave of cic. if Powell went before un its because he saw raw data and believed what other expert believe it show. if two years pass and zero evidence then there will be price to pay for cic and others. but all this talkin can go nowhere. iraq a big place and there isnt enough guys who track down wmd to scour the place in even six months time. i guess it could be possible that hussein "faked" trying to develop wmd in secret to make US look bad but look at behavior of iraq officials if no attempt to make wmd then why not total cooperation with un and why attempts to foil un inspectors?

[GRUNHERZ]

I like Europe a lot, the lifestly there is comfortable and love the Meditarranian and Adriatic. However I hate how so many in western Europe has become weak and gutless and how jelous and resentful they have become of the USA that first saved them and then for 50 years protected them against their friendly peace loving soviet neighbors. So when I say eurostudmuffins I mean those people in particular - those millions of degenerates who protested to save Saddam Husseins government earlier this year. May they all rot in hell for that disgrace.

[Rude]

Originally posted by Mini D
The only rewarding part about doing nothing is the ability to sit back and criticize every aspect of those that did something.

We did nothing for 9 years leading up to this point and look where that got us.

MiniD

Bingo

[Sandman]

Hmmm... so... ten plus years of sanctions in Iraq got us what exactly?