Author Topic: Hitler: Rise of Evil (Read 1821 times)

miko2d · « **Reply #30 on:** May 20, 2003, 02:02:07 PM »

Syzygyone: ...maybe that's your problem Miko.. All your "knowledge" comes from T.V.

A statement made with no foundation whatsoever and no link to reality is just a nonsensical rambling.

SLO: sorry miko...maybe I shoulda said that all germans in the 1930's where blind fools too believe in a pyshcopath.....make ya feel any better.

Nothing to be sorry of, my friend. That is exactly what I said - you've based your knowlege of history on representartion of germans in comedies and on hearsay.
You could not have learned that from a book because there was certainly no book that ever explained the phenomenon of nazism in terms of mass delusion rather than historic realities.

John Maynard Keynes predicted WWII in 1919. Quite a few people, including Mises did the same in early 20s - when there was no Hitler yet. Even Churchill caught up to reality in late 1930s. None of them were phsychologists but they red a lot of books and used their brains.
US was wildly supportive of Hitler and Mussolini through the end of 1930s, despite "Mein Kamph" published in mid-1920s.

miko

Syzygyone · « **Reply #31 on:** May 20, 2003, 02:48:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by miko2d
Syzygyone: ...maybe that's your problem Miko.. All your "knowledge" comes from T.V.

A statement made with no foundation whatsoever and no link to reality is just a nonsensical rambling.

Miko, you of all people, are probably far more expert than I on nonsensical ramblings but, hey, check out this impeccable logic. The thread is about a TV show. You try to lambast people that make fun of a stupid TV show about the worst scum mankind has ever known, and then you lambast them for not learning anything about history, thereby directly implying afortiori that a) you learn your history from TV and b) we too should learn about history from TV.

Next!

miko2d · « **Reply #32 on:** May 20, 2003, 03:07:10 PM »

Syzygyone: Miko, you of all people, are probably far more expert than I on nonsensical ramblings but, hey, check out this impeccable logic. The thread is about a TV show. You try to lambast people that make fun of a stupid TV show about the worst scum mankind has ever known, and then you lambast them for not learning anything about history, thereby directly implying afortiori that a) you learn your history from TV and b) we too should learn about history from TV.

Not true at all. You should work on your reading comprehension.

I replied to SLO about his opinion about the presumed mental state of germans. SLO did not post anything about the TV show, let alone "make fun" of it and neither did I lambast anyone for not watching the show.
Where did you get an idea that SLO or I was talking about this TV show or that I've seen it or that it would have had any new information for me if I did see it? It was your imagination, nothing more.

I did insinuate that rpm371 along with SLO do not read the books but instead learn from TV - and by "boob-tube" I did not mean the educational programs like that historical CBS show, however accurate or inaccurate they are. But that was because his post seemed to imply that "Main Kamph" was not a good reading for a student of history, while it is the undisposable book for anyone who wants to understand what was going on there.

That kind of indicates that I am reading books rather than weatching boobs and talking heads on TV.

But that migh have been too complicated for you to grasp. Whatever.

miko

Syzygyone · « **Reply #33 on:** May 20, 2003, 03:10:08 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by miko2d
educational programs like that historical CBS show,
miko

Uh, you mean the Survivior Amazon series?
Yeah, I liked that one too, especially the bikinis!

midnight Target · « **Reply #34 on:** May 20, 2003, 04:18:17 PM »

dam Syz... you actually READ miko's posts?

rpm · « **Reply #35 on:** May 21, 2003, 12:04:07 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by miko2d
You know all the answers, why ask questions... Better sit together with rpm371 and drool at the boob tube.

miko

LOL, how did I get dragged into this? I have'nt watched 1 second of that drivel.

Martlet · « **Reply #36 on:** May 21, 2003, 12:30:11 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by rpm371
I know! I know!

nah, that wasn't it.

bigUC · « **Reply #37 on:** May 21, 2003, 12:30:15 PM »

Why didn't they make a musical instead? Pavarotti could have been Göring...

SLO · « **Reply #38 on:** May 21, 2003, 12:40:19 PM »

miko don't ASSUME I'm not educated......

I made a general comment about GERMANS in the 1930's......

sorry but he was a psychopath.....and he did have delusions of grandeur.....anyone 1 with half a brain could tell people with those symptoms.....

and yes i do prefer watchin boobs on T.V. then watching a story about a dead pyschopath....some would actually call that...healthy:D

and for my not so friendly octavius.....the waiting room for whiners that hate others that critizise my nation door is that way------->>>>....sheep herder

miko2d · « **Reply #39 on:** May 21, 2003, 12:56:46 PM »

SLO,

I was not trying to urge you to watch historical TV programs but read books.

If you've read his writings, you would see that he was extremely rational person who knew exactly what he was doing. In 1924 he explained in precise detail how and about what you should talk to the crowd in order to achieve certain effect. He followed his own advice and achieved exactly what he set up to achieve before he even started.
Yes, his speaches and gestures were not convincing to intellectuals, but they were not intended to affect intellectuals.

As for the content of his worldview - about ethnicity, politics, etc, many people around us share them. They may have been wrong but common rather than unusial even now. He was just successfull in implementing them.

History is full of geniuses that set major event in motions by their theoretical works (Marx, Adam Smith, etc.) and those that used opportunity presented by history - Napoleon, Alexander the Great.

Hitler was the only one to come up with theory while having nothing (Main Kamph written in 1924 while in jail) and then implement it.
He realised that even before he started and any grandeur that he felt was not delusional but quite real and more substantiated the further he advanced.
He did not imagine becoming a totalitarian leader of a great indistrial nation - it really happened.

I've seen plenty of personal opinions of people about germans they saw - and fought - in WWII. According to all accounts, they were extremely competent, rational people and were more capable than anyone else in combat or production.

I've also read accounts of germans commonly recognised as very intelligent if not outright geniuses - like Erich v. Manstein - and not great lovers of Hitler about Hitler, written after the war when they had no incentive to make him look good. Quite illuminative.

rpm371: LOL, how did I get dragged into this? I have'nt watched 1 second of that drivel.

Good for you, I guess. I did not watch it either. Anyway, if you are interested in history, whether you love Hitler or hate Hitler, read Mein Kamph and you won't regret it.

miko

CMC Airboss · « **Reply #40 on:** May 21, 2003, 01:25:25 PM »

They should have cast Chris Kataan (of SNL) in the lead role. The show would have been a lot more entertaining. He doesn't really look like Hitler either. And no British-German accent.

MiG

Syzygyone · « **Reply #41 on:** May 21, 2003, 02:07:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by miko2d
According to all accounts, they were extremely competent, rational people and were more capable than anyone else in combat or production.

miko

MIko:
Very thoughtful posts. But, consider this. I don't suggest that it was your intention to defend Hitler but to ascribe to him the normalcy your posts do, in fact, does just that and somehow that logic seems to be forgiving of his heinous aspirations and actions.

If Germans were better in combat and production than anyone else, then why did they lose WWII?

Was it due to having a rational and capable leader as their Fuhrer? Of course not. It was becuase the leader was a psycopathic megolomanical dictator with delusions of world domination. The mid 20th century German military and industrial machine was truly awesome and probably world beating but it was run into the groung by Hitler, especially with his lunacy of opening a second front. To suggest that Hitler was other than a total psychotic belies the concept that psychotics cannot think rationally for their own ends and surround themselves with like minded other psychotic sheep.

In short, Hitler took a nation and a society with great potential and rather than build it up to live in peace and prosperity, built it up to destroy itself on his alter. Hitler was evil incarnate and the only thing you can do with evil is kill it, as quickly as possible, every time it rears its ugly head.

miko2d · « **Reply #42 on:** May 21, 2003, 02:39:02 PM »

Syzygyone,

I am not trying to say what Hitler intended to do was "good".

Just that he was very rational, capable, talented and intelligent person. His philosopy was quite coherent and it makes sense learning what it was in order to recognise its elements around us and prevent future aspiring Hitlers. Of which we have plenty all around, thankfully not as capable as he was.

Saying that nazism was just an irrational historical abberation is like saying "there is no need to learn the cause of the disaster becasue it was random and no good infrmation usefull for preventing such accidents may be obtained from those studies". It was not random and the person who would least want you to study the past Hitler is exactly the future Hitler such knowlege could help prevent.

If Germans were better in combat and production than anyone else, then why did they lose WWII?

Let's see. 60 million germans against what, 200 million soviets, 180 million americans, 40 million brits, add australians, canadians. Want to compare the volume of industrial production, availability of resources?
Superior quality does not guarantee against being overwhelmed by quantity.

As for your opinions of Hitler opening the second front, let alone the first one, they are uninformed. When someone seems acting irrational to you, he may be irrational or you may not know what he knew.
He did not think he was starting the WWII - he though he was only invading Poland along with Soviet Union. He did not expect England and France to declare war and persist in it and for US to back them up - and for good reasons, as soviets assured him that England and France would not start the war because of Poland while they soviets knew perfectly well that they would.
As for opening the second front against USSR, he had very little choice, considering the soviet army was going to invade shortly.

Hitler was not the only evil tyrant around and not even the smartest one - he was set up by Stalin to provide an opportunity to liberate Europe. In fact, soviets used the term "World War" in early September of 39 - way before anyone realised what they had was a world war. For bolshevics, of course, world war among capitalist countries was a necessary prerequisite for expanding the communist revolution, that is why they took trouble to set it up. Stalin was one of the few people who read Mein Kampf and helped insure that Hitler achieved power rather than some moderate socialist and later helped Germany rearm.

Hitler was evil incarnate and the only thing you can do with evil is kill it, as quickly as possible, every time it rears its ugly head.

Have to recognise it first - preferably before it is strong enough. So you have to study it.

miko

Maniac · « **Reply #43 on:** May 21, 2003, 02:42:10 PM »

Yes, its kind of scary how he brainwashed the whole country without the help of modern day media...

Really amazing..

miko2d · « **Reply #44 on:** May 21, 2003, 03:03:27 PM »

Maniac: Yes, its kind of scary how he brainwashed the whole country without the help of modern day media...

Germany and Italy were democratic counties where national socialism achieved power. Most western countries were significantly affected by the same views - including USA.

Government control of economy, education, protectionist policies, propaganda for social interests versus individualism - we had all that and still have plenty.

miko