Europe and the Euro

[Defiance]

Hiya's,
If you think Britain will join the euro soon you must be mad  lol

We in Britain are like blinkered sheep
We have no "other" country to compare costs to

Now in say germany and france which share a currency and border, They can compare say petrol (gas to yanks ) and accordingly stock up in other country

Now this doesn't just mean petrol it can be foodstuffs alcohol cigs etc etc  

They have a basic comparable factor as in same currency (euro) so they can make a choice as to where's cheaper for stuff

Seems far fetched to think that people "country-hop" in europe for shopping but it's a fact

Now take good old britain, We see euro buys this or buys that but 90% (guesstimate) don't really know what the hell that means, Well that's because we are still using pounds n pence, Lots of people are anti-euro basicly out of ignorance and because they think that britain should keep a currency that's basicly been around longer than themselves
But we get duped into higher than the rest of eaurope prices for goods etc and taxes for that matter, And why ?? because most can't grasp the conversion from sterling to euros

So what's better for a government/country than to keep a system where it's citizens can't compare the price of a loaf to that of its neighbours
Euro in britain would mean lots of it's citizens suddenly realising the old sterling was driving prices up as compared to rest of europe
So with a divided euro currency (sterling + euro) there's no need to explain why on average most everything imaginable is dearer than europe

Someone mentioned coal, Fiancee's bro-in-law is gonna be made redundant in august, He works at a superpit called Riccall which was supposedly a "job for life with super salary" and now he is in a 43 million pound redundancy plan for the pit
The coal industry is just but part of the largest downfalls in british industries, Lack of investment in the future and a "profit today let's worry about tomorrow attitude" that britain was so good at in years gone by, But also it was currency that added to the demise

When i see the news about how our government is spending so many millions of taxpayers money fighting cheaper/illegal cig/alcohol/petrol infuxes it makes me partly laugh and also feel so sad

Why is it so many people turn to cheaper and somewhat illegal means for cheaper stuff
Well high taxes don't help but mainly because the very industries that the past governments taxed n levied to the wall are now what they are having to fight with taxpayers money eg. alcohol/cigs/fuel imports illegally
They made it so highly taxed n levied that most british beer manufacturers (large ones) have all but given up in the uk (Bass for instance)
This was intollerably high taxes and currency rates

Cigs can be made in the uk and sold in say spain for 1 1/4 of the price as the uk, Similar cases for alcohol etc etc the list is endless as such

Due to currency variations and suchlike
But if we were all on the same currency and could compare costs/prices i for one think britain may have more of a industry based econemy now than we do

Basic taxation/currency negates a need for set taxation etc that's obvious, You get nowt for nowt so to speak
But when in ours (britains) case we have nothing to compare to in the same currency things get kinda out of control, People cutback on say driving (less tax taken on petrol/derv) people cutback on cigs (great for health but hits treasury hard) people go for cheaper (illegal or other means) alcohol
All this does is force prices up more as the less is spent on those kinds of things the less the treasury takes so is forced (well government) increase revenue to keep the treasury coffers up
Hence industries like Coal/Ship building/Brewing 99% (gotta be around that %) dead n dying

With one currency in europe how could any british government explain differences in taxation and prices ?

Answer they wouldn't/couldn't be able to because the average briton would be able to say "ehh how come cigs here compared to there with the same currency" are 400% more !

Keep the pound/sterling and it's a case of eagle-eyed britons with calculator/good at maths realising we are getting a rather different deal than rest of europe

Euro as britains currency i very very very much doubt it so pro-euro currency dudes/dudettes hang in there
And to the pro-sterling (mainly clingers-on to old systems etc and aren't willing to see the reasons to change) you dudes/dudettes seem to be doing a great job of holding britain back

(now this is my view and in no way was forced to right this by a pro-euro person)

[GRUNHERZ]

Dowding I understand your concerns and I can see how this is personal for you, however economics are impersonal.

You mentioned that these people were rather affluent and enjoyed high wage rates. In economic terms this would mean tht their skills were in high demand and so wage rates were naturally high.  However if they lost their jobs as you said "wipe out a whole means of employment"  then this means their skills were not in high demand and their wage rates were artificaillly high. Economically this means that other Britons and consumers and the economy as a whole were paying too high a price for coal to subsidize the col workers artificially infalated wages.  Thus they were becoming a drag on the economy, and knowing how widespread these job losses were that was a huge drag because it toook such drastic action to balance out the societys value of the coal to the wage rates paid to coal workers in general. So yea they had be gone.

Sorry Dowding but it simply comes to fact that these folks had outdated 19th century skills in a 20th century world - there is no way thair high aggregate wages could be supported in an open economy.

[qts]

History will show that Margaret Thatcher was the second-best PM Britain had in the 20th Century (after Churchill). Not only did she defeat socialism at home, but she with her victory in the Falklands and Reagan with his support for the Afghans and their uncompromising attitude defeated Soviet socialism abroad.

You may like her or loathe her, but I've yet to meet somone over 30 who doesn't respect her.

[beet1e]

Grunherz made a good analysis, but I also feel Dowding’s pain on the coalmining issue.

As I see it, a large part of the problem was a long period of rule by the Labour Government. After the Tory PM, Harold Macmillan left office he was succeeded for a brief period by Sir Alec Douglas Home. But he lasted only a year before Harold Wilson was elected in 1964. From that point on, only three out of the next 15 years were untainted by Labour Government. As their name suggests, the Labour Party was a party for the workers, and of “creating” jobs. The problem was that they allowed ridiculous levels of overmanning in key industries because that way they could “reduce unemployment”, or at least make the figures look good. It was BS, of course, and many of the jobs that were artificially created were not real jobs. It was Labour who let things fester, and allowed labour intensive industries to continue with 19th century working practices right through the 1970s. We were dependent upon coal for electricity, and the miners knew it. Hence the strikes (always for higher pay) of 1972, and 1974 – the one that brought down Ted Heath’s Tory government. For three winters out of four between 1970-1974, we were subjected to power cuts and the three day week to conserve electricity and to save coal. The miners didn’t do it on their own, and had collaborators in the Transport and General Workers union who were afraid to cross the Miners’ picket lines, so coal trains en route to power stations were halted. Margaret Thatcher saw that such union power was a major evil in the 20th century. Can you imagine being subjected to power cuts in 2003 because of striking miners, what with all the computer controlled systems we have running our lives today? Of course not, and Margaret Thatcher played her part in laying to rest overmanning, trade union abuse of power, and 19th century working practices. She was Da Woman...

The reason that decent folk like Dowding and his family and neighbours were hit so hard (and believe me, they suffered – they really did, so don’t make fun of it) was that despite the writing being on the wall for 19th century style mining, Labour did nothing. They knew that the time bomb that they had left ticking away would not explode until they had left office which they did as a result of a vote of no confidence (carried by only 1 vote) in 1979. The transition from old world to new in the Yorkshire mining communities where Dowding lives came too suddenly. The miners working practices and steadfast refusal to consider any productivity deals became their Waterloo. British coal had become far too expensive, and we were able to import coal more economically than that which could be mined at home. Britain’s coal mining industry was finished – almost overnight. I have a close friend from a pit community of Upton, near Doncaster. His father and brother found work, much of which involves storage/warehousing and the like.

Had the inevitable transition from 19th century coalmining been begun in the 1960s, and had some workers been more flexible in learning new trades instead of becoming dinosaurs, the poverty and hardships suffered in Yorkshire beginning with the 1984/85 NUM strike could have been greatly reduced. I do believe there were some concessions made towards a productivity deal, but it was too little, too late.

Thatcher had seen, with regard to the unions, that "absolute power corrupts, absolutely". Unfortunately, she made the mistake of overlooking the fact that this mantra also applied to herself...

[Frogm4n]

they have a problem brewing because the euro is so strong against the dollar right now. when you exchange your money you feel like your canadian or something.

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by Frogm4n
they have a problem brewing because the euro is so strong against the dollar right now. when you exchange your money you feel like your canadian or something.

Who has a problem? So what? Currencies fluctuate all the time. Hell the GBP has always been higher than the dollar and guess what nobody cares - nobodys pride is hurt..

And economically speaking thats a disadavantage to the EU because thair exports are more expensive worldwide and their  economy will suffer if their currency values go up and their goods cost more to purchase.

But hell if this gives some joy to your sad hateful little life then run with it baby!