rshubert, come on over, let's talk..

[Curval]

Originally posted by beet1e
ROFL!
You say you want to make sure that there will always be a place for you furballers to play your way. And there is!  It's called the DA.

So why don't you all just go there?

Beet1e...the DA by definition is the "Dueling" arena.  Generally there are 1 vs 1 fights, maybe some 2 vs 2...and occassionally a semi-organised free-for-all involving 5 or more on each team.

In no way is it an FA (Furball Arena).

For a real furball to occur you need the MA atmosphere.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by lazs2
beetle.. don't be obtuse..in other words... don't be beetle.. I don't want to go to the da...  I want a place in the MA.  If HTC thinks my ideas suck then they will ignore them.. if they think that yours suck they will ignore you.

Yeah, right. Didn't think you could come up with a decent answer not to go to the DA. Even Toad admits he has been happier flying the DA lately.

But Lazs, lets look at your idea to have the MA partitioned by a 50,000' wall or mountain range. No planes could ever get from one side to the other. What would be the difference between that, and having two separate arenas?

Still waiting for the furballers to come up with a halfway decent reason not to go to the DA. The best one I've heard so far is "I don't want to go to the da... I want a place in the MA.". - not particularly convincing.

[nopoop]

Beet1e there are times, somewhat frequent that you read and don't comprehend. Your latest DA tape loop has been answered many times yet you fail to grasp it.

You also seem to think I'm advocating a total revamp of the strat model. I'm not. Call it tweaking or nudging

You haven't answered any questions I put forth in the "tad" post. Would any of those "proposed nudges" in strat be of benifit to you or not ? If so why ? If not why ?? Discuss. Your ranting. Take a breath.

In answer to your question on FH's. See I read, and reply..

I have no idea what a tad is, one more bomb ?? Experiment. If we're working towards a more fluid front a "tad" harder FH's might be the ticket. I see one thing happen over and over as bases are taken that makes absolutely no sense to me. A group is on the move spearheading off into injun territory. The first thing they do is kill the FH's. Now if your really trying for a "push" in a strategic way why on earth would you kill the FH's ?? You take the base and it's worthless. You can't fly from it. You've stopped your own offensive all by yourself without the enemy doing a thing.

Ack-ack mades a very valid point that there is no formal training here. New guys are thrown to the wolves and I agree. A formalized training program ala' WB would be a good thing. I spent my time there, not alot, but I learned quite a bit in the few times I attended. Any nudges in strat I would think would have little impact on the new guy. If he wants confrontation there's a place, if he wants to hit a base behind the lines to practice his craft they'll still be there.

[Apache]

Originally posted by TW9
Not as many low, unsuspecting, and inexperienced pilots in da compared to ma? or maybe because ma has a bigger crowd that will see "playerx landed 12 kills"?

Those who advocate dogfighting...are afraid too? Never ran into the BK's or the 13th or the FDB's or have you?

That sound you hear is a logical thought flying over your head.

[nopoop]

Originally posted by TW9
i'll admit that the fact that 1 jabo can completely disable a field isnt right

Don't have a problem with a jabo coming in and disabling a field, gotta be good to take out the ack, hit the VH and prep it for taking. One or two jabo taking out the fuel is a different story.

[beet1e]

BS Poopie! Pull the other one - I have a spare. The DA issue has never been answered, so don't try to make it sound as if it has by accusing me of repeating the tape loop. If I have asked the question more than once it's because I have not had a satisfactory answer.

I don't like your "experimental" changes at all. I smell permanent changes by stealth. Why would you want to alter the strength of the FHs as they stand now? The help application tells you exactly what ord is required to destroy them, and if a team of guys comes armed for the task, they deserve to achieve it IMO. Happened to a Bish field just last week - and I take my hat off to the guys that did it. But oh! -cry the furballers. That ruins our fun! Well of course it does, just as every time you shoot someone down you ruin their fun. You want to boost your fun by depriving someone else of their fun. Just remember - they pay their $14.95 too. If the fuel porkers/FH bashers are succeeding in getting through to your field, then it goes to show what a piss poor job is being done to protect it. You could man the FGs. You could mount a defensive sortie to protect your field against attack. You could organise some Ostwinds to protect the fuel if an attack is suspected. But no. The furballers' way has always been to whine to HTC instead.

A group is on the move spearheading off into injun territory. The first thing they do is kill the FH's. Now if your really trying for a "push" in a strategic way why on earth would you kill the FH's ?? You take the base and it's worthless. You can't fly from it. You've stopped your own offensive all by yourself without the enemy doing a thing.

The point of hitting the FHs is to stop the enemy from launching. When the base is captured, the acks come back, meaning that the FGs can be manned to defend the base. Some aerial cap might also be needed. And after a while (15 mins?) the FHs come back up. The point of crippling the base? To stop you from having it of course! Sometimes it IS the obvious answer.

[nopoop]

Originally posted by nopoop
Why not go to the DA ?? That's simple, there is only one enemy in there.. The gentlemen that hang in there are very good at what they do and they enjoy it. With the exception of the 2 on 2  I haven't been in there. That's where I learned that Curly and Nimitz are bastages..

Originally posted by Curval
Beet1e...the DA by definition is the "Dueling" arena. Generally there are 1 vs 1 fights, maybe some 2 vs 2...and occassionally a semi-organised free-for-all involving 5 or more on each team. For a real furball to occur you need the MA atmosphere.

[Originally posted by Furious
Lastly, I like to play in the MA. I like killing strat guys just as much as I like killing DF guys. HT is not dumb and realizes that some players need to be able to do the things they are capable of doing.

Answers look pretty straight foreward and understandable to me. That's just from this thread. You used Furious' quote in your sig when it was a portion of his answer to your DA question.

While addressing one question I had, I guess it's to much to ask to discuss the rest. That damn tape loop keeps getting in the way.

[beet1e]

Nopoop, still not good enough. For you to be advocating changes to strat - FH "hardness" etc. - it follows that there must be sufficient likeminded individuals who would like to see your changes, and for the same reasons. When I asked why you don't go to the DA, I meant all you furballers - en masse. After all, if you are sufficient in number to vote for an arena change, you should find a plentitude of furballers in the DA.

Curval's answer is merely describing the status quo before the furballers migrate to the DA, and is therefore not applicable. Once the migration takes place, it won't be 1-on-1 any more, although there could be an area reserved for 1-on-1 fights.

And as I have already said, Furious's answer is lame, and I addressed it in that 10-point list of reasons for the furballers to migrate to the DA.

Try again.

Still waiting for that elusive answer to the question: Why don't the furballers migrate en masse to the DA?

[Shane]

because the DA map is not really suitable for it and there'd always be some tarded spoiler porking bases.

[nopoop]

I understand now, an answer isn't really an answer unless it's the one you want to hear.

So let me get this straight. Your now promoting that a good portion of the census in the Main arena to leave ???

Am I correct in this ?

I would say that's alittle over the top, wouldn't you ??

Looking at it subjectively, I'd say hardening up the fuel a bit is less traumatic to the big picture than asking a portion of the Mains pilots to start another arena...

But hey, what do I know, I can't even give you the answer you want to hear. You tell me the answer and I'll write it down so I don't forget the next time you ask.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by beet1e
BS Poopie! Pull the other one - I have a spare. The DA issue has never been answered, so don't try to make it sound as if it has by accusing me of repeating the tape loop.  

Here's one answer.  We had a furball arena in AW, called Fightertown and was quite popular and successful and a lot of the players that used to fly in there were amongst the refugees.  This group felt like the furballers on this thread, they even had the same arguements.  So these ex-Fightertown refugees decided to go to the DA and turn it into AH's version of Fightertown and every Wednesday for a few weeks you would find anywhere from 15-30 people (99.9% of them being all ex-AWers though).  Then all of a sudden it just stopped.  Most of the guys that would go to the DA every Wednesday just lost interest because of the dynamics of the arena I guess and the lack of interest from regular AH players.

Personally, I'm all for turning the DA into a Fightertown like arena.  Change the map, put in a very limited Strat system (able to destroy VH's and radar) and make things like fuel tough enough that bombing them would be a waste of time.  Add a few CVs for some intense CV battles and maybe a section for the GVs to duke it out as well and I'm sure that you'll satisfy a lot of people's desires and hopefully create a popular arena as well.


Ack-Ack

[beet1e]

Originally posted by nopoop
I understand now, an answer isn't really an answer unless it's the one you want to hear.

No. An answer isn't an answer unless it answers the question which prompted that answer. If I asked you what the weather is like in CA today, and you answered "6:30pm", I would not consider that to be an answer! And Poop!  you're asking me questions which I have pre-empted in my 10-point list somewhere up there. YOU would be happier for all the reasons listed. All of you, if you're sincere about your furball prowess. So what's the REAL reason you don't want to go to the DA? Couldn't be that there'd be no jabo/strat turkeys to beat up? Surely those are easy targets, and furballers are skilled enough not to need to bother with them.

[nopoop]

Don't like splitting the Main crowd into arenas. WB is an example of what happens with multiple arenas amongst a long line of other things..

The Main is the main. It's the "fun" arena for lack of a better word. The Main here is the best I've seen. It IS fun. By bringing up points for discussion in no way changes that fact. The numbers themselves tell the tale.

Small nudges are being done to trinity that may be of benifit. Time will tell.

Would I be in favor of a few more nudges in certain aspects, you bet.

Regardless, I'm all for numbers. Being that AH is also, I really don't think I have much to worry over.

They don't shoot themselves in the foot.

They might even address Beet1e's dreaded sound cheat..then do away with La7's,  AND THEN NIKKI'S !!

AND THEN ALL THE FURBALLERS !!

But then again, maybe not..

[beet1e]

Originally posted by nopoop
Don't like splitting the Main crowd into arenas. WB is an example of what happens with multiple arenas amongst a long line of other things..

The Main is the main. It's the "fun" arena for lack of a better word. The Main here is the best I've seen. It IS fun. By bringing up points for discussion in no way changes that fact. The numbers themselves tell the tale.

Small nudges are being done to trinity that may be of benifit. Time will tell.

Would I be in favor of a few more nudges in certain aspects, you bet.

Regardless, I'm all for numbers. Being that AH is also, I really don't think I have much to worry over.

They don't shoot themselves in the foot.

They might even address Beet1e's dreaded sound cheat..then do away with La7's,  AND THEN NIKKI'S !!

AND THEN ALL THE FURBALLERS !!

But then again, maybe not..

ROFL! Thing is Poopie, you have to let the other guys have their fun too. It's give and take. I was impressed with the 110 squad that visited themselves upon my base, and wiped out all FH in a single pass. They planned it, their aim was good, and they deserved to succeed. I had only just taken off and had plenty of fuel and killed a couple of those 110, and then had to defend the field. All the would-be fighters jumped in GVs and there was plenty of cover.

See the difference? As a furballer, you have fun getting lots of kills. Hey, I get quite a few too. So WE are having fun. So we have no right to complain when an organised squad porks the base. They are having their fun. And hey, they can be stopped! Get in a fighter and provide cover before they hit their targets.

But all this "harden this" and "fix that"... sounds like someone who can't win/succeed with the game as it stands. Increase FH "hardness"? I think what you're really after is to stop the sort of raid I described above. And I don't think that would be fair, despite the fact that I was on the side that got its base porked. Kind of reminds me of pool hustlers who try to change the rules half way through a game.

[Revvin]

The MA will always be the half-way house between the CT and DA, a little less realistic than the CT which uses an Axis vs Allies setup and maps resembling the real world while the DA is devoid of strat.

Much has been said (mainly the same vocal minority) about how the furballer (seems pidgeon holing is the way to go here) is the more tolerant type of player, they are the ones who supposedley 'get it' are not as slow witted (or any ammount of other snide comment they care to pass) as the rest of us and therefore are happier and stay in the sim longer so they are the ones that should be catered for because us slow witted types will up and leave.

In reality the reverse is true where the number of whines by these players about strat and how it ruins their fun is far greater than those made by players who have a more rounded experience of Aces High and will try their hand at most things like bombing, jabo and dogfighting. You just don't see the threads started from these players asking for more ways to ruin someone's fun or to allow their steamroller a little more steam or allow them more 'pork' power. The general population of AH will also post their suggestions in the gameplay forums while the vocal few will squeak and moan in the general forum like they are starved of attention.

The thing is they just don't 'get it' when it comes to the arena choice open to them or is there another reason? all the grand comparisons to chess and the like and talk of ACM really is'nt what furballs in the MA are all about. It's gangbang the lowest guy, perhaps cherry pick or circle jerk till you die. If it was all about ACM they'd be in the DA but then that would take ACM to fight and perhaps they are too timid to fight without numbers around them so ACM does'nt matter. If they went to the DA then there would'nt be 1 vs 1 there would be those grand furball's they talk of and all the fancy claptrap they care to use to package it all up to sound oh so grand but in reality it would be a small number there, the same kind of numbers that populate the CT because the general census in the arena could'nt really care they will go on doing the odd bomber sortie, mixed with a jabo run and then onto some dogfighting in one seamless online experience.