Squadron owned Carriers...........

[OIO]

If it does, hitech will be sure to add submarines so I can sink a whole squad of dweebs in one shot.

MWAHAHAH

[AcId]

Originally posted by Noctilux
This is such a great idea that it underscores the need to do something about the effectiveness of suicide B-17 low-alt divebombers.  I'm afraid that if we all *knew* it was, say, an AK or BK or MAW carrier that it'd get sunk in seconds by some l33t g4m3r with a vendetta and a formation of buffs.  

Unfortunately, I have no suggestions yet but I do think about it often.  All I can come up with is "make the CV a lot tougher," but I'm not sure that's the right answer.

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread - it's really a great idea.  I'd love to see it in the game someday.

That is a good point I can surely see a gang of B-17's divebombing a "Squad CV", vendetta or not, just to make an entire squad loose perks. With that kind of threat looming I don't think too many squads would buy a CV.

I can certainly understand the aspect of Squad vs. Squad CV battles but in the MA I don't think it would be strategicly sound to have a Squad only CV attacking a base where an entire country is able to roll from.

It is a neat idea but unless those things are addressed it may not get used much. I too am sorry to say I have no suggestions at the moment besides the obvious ones that don't really solve the problem but rather create different problems.

[gofaster]

... we don't need squadron-only carriers, we just need more ports.

[devious]

Originally posted by Duedel
Good idea but u only have those funny planes enabled at the CV ...

The solution: Dirt strips. You get them like a CV, then point & klick to deploy it.

Your grass/dirt/sand strip will be constructed there. Once a squad wants to move on, the CO orders the ground troops to load up all the airfield on trucks, and drive it somewhere else.

Or make 109Ts for carriers

[CMC Airboss]

Agreed, great idea.  

A more robust damage model would definately be in order as well, with some kind of regeneration time for damage.  

MiG

[Tumor]

Originally posted by gofaster
... we don't need squadron-only carriers, we just need more ports.

Yep

[hazed-]

wow thats a positive response if ever i seen one


I like the ideas about building a fleet up with the more perks you spend.

The suicide divebombers would indeed be a problem, but who knows, maybe HTC will introduce the limitation on angles bombs can be dropped from? (in the level bombers). After all, those racks they used were notoriously dangerous, in that bombs could often get 'hung up' on the way out.I have read 'Combat Crew' by John Comer, a top gunner/engineer on B17s in WW2 and he describes how he often had to clamber over the frame and dislodge the 'hung up' bombs.Often due to the poorly performing oxygen suppliers this could be a fatal job.Some lost consiousness and fell out of the bombbay!.

Another thing to consider is you do have an entire squad to protect the CV with this idea. Its not the same as now where often we ignore CV's until they are attacked. If it was your own personal Ship I think you would keep a few defenders up to stop them.
If suicide bombing does stay a problem the only answer might be to make the ships cheaper but have a limit on how many you can purchace in a single tour? there might be other ways to limit the numbers of ships on a map without making people feel left out of the fun.
The main thing here though is to give a squadron their own 'base' from which to operate from.Remember though they dont 'have' to sail alone. They could add their weight to the country CV just as easily too. I really like the grass strip idea devious had. I think when you have a matter of squad pride making you want to hold onto your base you will see some great battles add a large trinity sized map with big open areas or seas and we have ourselves a real sea warfare simulator If we need to have somwhere to hide then add a moving fog bank lol

[Gwjr2]

I like the idea but another item would be to let whomever has command lock out cv ops, for that noe cv raid but a newb ups or shoots guns and gives it away. A gun lockout as well.

[oboe]

I like both the grass strip and CV idea.    I'd like to fly over the friendly CV and see the huge BK noseart emblem painted on the forward deck....

These two ideas would really boost the incentive for larger squads.

[lazs2]

I don't care one way or the other so long as this idea means that there will be more CV's on the map.   Any way to get more CV's or cv's that are harder to kill get's my vote.

At the rate that BK's burn up perk points tho... I doubt that we have more than a couple hundred thousand  to spare.  would that be enough?

Oh well... if not... we would at least get to fight the anal squads cv's
lazs

[AKcurly]

You know what's really appealing about this idea?  The thought of a group spending XXX perk points to own it and me overflying in a b17 and sinking it.

curly

[lazs2]

curly.... I think that is about the dead end that this idea would come to.

More cv's would just mean more dweeby suicide guys getting better (more practice) at sinking em...  Without making it more difficult to sink cv's they would just be a waste.

How bout if the CV can't be sunk untill all the escorts are sunk?
lazs

[firbal]

Something to thing about is having some of the small squads join in together for a CV. That way everyone can get in somehow. Good idea. It would a new diminion to the game. All you really need for this is a water terrian. You'd have to send out scouts to locate a fleet. It would be easy to make the terrian. But all the settings? How hard would it be to setup?

[smash]

This is a great idea, but some of the finer details would need to be thought out.

1) Can only squad members then use the CV?

2) Are there a fixed number of aircraft by type per CV?

3) If non-squad members use the CVs aircraft and commit dweeb death, does this count against the CVs ac compliment?

I totally agree that there is a problem with suicide dweebs, but the CVs are unrealistically hard now.   A single 1k through the deck would take out a CV (at least operationally) for several hours or more.

Its the same old problem where there is no penalty for upping and repeatedly going to your death, whether intentionally or not.  The solution would be simple, and I've often wondered why its never been dealt with.

Then again I tend to lean towards realism more than most.

[hazed-]

guess i should clarify a bit:


Cv would be owned and usable by the squad who bought it ONLY. The only limit on its use is if it is sunk or if you use up a full compliment of aircraft.

A Cv should carry a realistic number of airframes (see above for a breakdown on numbers but its usually around 40 fighters.Once they are all gone the ship makes its way back to port to decomission (returning some perks to players)

These player owned Cv's would be in ADDITION to the public Cv's we have now.Public CV's would show on maproom but private ones wouldnt.(normal radar/visual sightings applies tho of course)



the aim of this is:

a> encourage the forming of larger squads in order to pay the costs of ships etc.

b> to encourage the conservation of aircraft/airframes due to the limited number you can use before the ship is returned to port.

c> to be able to use your ship without the rest of your country seeing where you are on the map.Thus affording the squad a slim chance they wont be spied on by the idiots who like to do this in AH

d> A new map could be added with MINIMAL work needed on it as with these ships open water would be preferable.There should be areas where short range fighters cant operate and the use of long range scouts becomes necessary to try and find the ships.This shows the value of these types too.

e> spectacular targets for the players seeking to score a devastating blow to a squad they dont like hehe



the biggest problem is the ease with which ships can be killed but remember:

A> your ship if paid for by your squadron would undoubtedly be defended with greater enthusiasm.
B> First they would have to find you and if like suggested you are allowed to pick a spawn point from a wide area (in your territory) you could and should be aiming to avoid detection until you want to be seen or you attack.
C> if you dont enjoy using the ships you dont have to buy them true people will go out of their way to try to get your CV but thats human nature, look at the effect a perk label has in the MA! do we not try any novel ideas because of stupid behaviour? I hope we do try things myself.

Originally posted by smash
I totally agree that there is a problem with suicide dweebs, but the CVs are unrealistically hard now.   A single 1k through the deck would take out a CV (at least operationally) for several hours or more.

I think you would actually be suprised at just how many hits some of these ships could take.Especially the British Carriers with the armoured decks (american CV's had wooden ones!)
heres an excerpt from 'War in a stringbag' by Charles Lamb as he describes an attack by Stuka divebombers on his carrier.

'The difference between the German's methods and the Italians could never have been demonstrated more clearly.They had only one bomb per aircraft so they had to come right down to deliver it personally.Since it was enormous - it weighed 500kg - their determination not to waste their one egg was understandable.They begun their pull out at about 5000 feet, when they had built up their speed to the maximum, from a 10,000 foot start, and they released their bomb while still diving , at about five hundred feet, so that it followed after them with sickening accuracy.
 Because the first bomb had neatly planted down the after-lift and had exploded in the hanger, the blast effect was upwards and outwards, under the flight deck. It was sufficiently powerfull to bend all three hundred tons of the forward-lift into a parabola and all the armoured properties of the flight-deck, which had been the Navy's pride, and the pride of Vickers-Armstrong's yard, were destroyed at once.Thereafter in addition to many near-misses which damaged the ships steering machinery and bent her keel, three more armour peircing bombs went through the 3 inch czechslovakian steel flight-deck as though it wasn't there - or was made out of cardboard. Being fully armour peircing some of them penetrated the deck of the hanger too, before exploding below it in the wardroom.'

so as you can see this ship took 4x500kg(@4408lbs) armour peircing bombs and it wasnt sunk.True it was out of comission for a long while but it just shows you that the present damage level of ships in AH is far from unrealistic.When you consider we are using HE and not AP bombs its even less unrealistic.