Reality what a concept

[Jimdandy]

 

Originally posted by Jimdandy:
You missed the point I think. I did say the RR arena would be the present arena. You could play in RR. I do agree that there would be far fewer people willing to go to all of that trouble. That's the point of make another arena. As mrfish pointed out it could be a smaller arena. It may have to wait tell we get a lot more people on the game itself to get enough people to even keep a 50 person arena alive. Hell I might get in there and find out I don't like all of the 'reality.' I'm just thinking it could be offered for those who are really dying to set and warm up there engines. Or take of with a cold misfiring engine because the enemy caught them by surprise. Or deal with gun jams, engine management, etc.

BTW I think night should be brought back to the MA.    

I better repost this to make sure people are reading what I say.   Dang a lot of people can't just say no. They really have try to make the guy posting look like he's got a screw loose. It's a suggestion. Relax people. Calm down. It is just a game. We don't want to rock anyones cradle now. LOL! Some of you just blow me away. On top of that HT will decide the economics of it. It will probably never happen.

[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 01-16-2001).]

[Pepino]

CavemanJ,

I think you are answering to my post. Sorry to crack you up   Since you are answering point by point, I will do the same:

• Ultra-realistic engine management is not only for FS98/2k users, but for flight sim lovers as a whole, and AH is a combat flight sim, IMHO. Besides that, It is another factor that can help a skillful player/flyer to turn tables on superior plane/superior initial e-state situation. Just like trimming, flying smoothly, etc. etc. etc. As for the go fly those, please read my post: I DO NOT QUIT. Sorry if that means another crack for you  
  
  
• Sector coutners will tell you roughly where bandits are, and where the fight is developing.
• I was not asking for norden historical accuracy, for I do not know how it was historically. What I do know is that It needed some time of flying straight for lining the gyros up and this issue addresses two different things that lacks a good solution now, again IMO:

a) Lack of navigation skills needed in buff missions.
b) Lots of banking and jinking on buffs on the final run over the target. NO WAY. If a buff banks and jinks on apporaching the target, he will ruin his lining and,thus, his bomb mission. This solution will ease the lethality of buffs, since they will be severely handicapped in their manouvering ability in the critical moments of the drop.

• For the GPS issue, I am sure that above all the different perceived problems/proposed solutions you want a fair game. Everyone using the same tools. So Ok, I take this "...print the clipboard map and..." as a license for the sake of your argument. The pinpoint radar does have a range of 12.5 miles...that is false. As it is now, is 12.5 miles around each airfield with operative radar. What this means is that whith your handy GPS/JSTARS link you see what is happening some 100 miles away.
• You want a warning that something ugly is going to happen to your base... hmmm....IMHO, that's precisely the role of a treetop level buff mission. Surprise, Surprise!. Still you have ack, VH, etc. etc. to try to counter. Maybe not enough for you, It is Ok for me.
• I only give my opinion, and I regularly try to be as little pushy as possible. I only point things that IMHO, would make this sim/game better. I appreciate your condescendece in what It's worth. In the meantime, please realise that only Htc. can force all of us here to do anything. Not me. Neither that I want to.
• YOUR opinion is that this is a game. Some of us might disagree and think this is a sim. Some of us may think this is a different think. You do not know what is "supposed" to be. You do not want to fly and kill with realistically...etc. You want to pop up and look to a surreal battlefield presentation by WWII standards, then jump onto a plane realistically modelled in some parts, some artificially automated, fly the shortest path to the fight already found by your artificially precise and limitless radar, the same that covers nicely your back and prevents nasty surprises, etc....

I do not know if a 100% realistic implementation would be fun, and I am not asking for that. I will make it clear so you can understand this time: I only give my opinion on some issues that, again , In My Opinion would make this sim/game better. If that's coincident with Htc. oppinion, and they think it's right, fine for me. If not, I will continue playing/having fun/relaxing whith the actual model.

Cheers,

Pepe

[Tac]

Well, things that would make this game realistic without being overly complicated would be:

1) Friendly Icons Only. This would introduce some REALISTIC dogfights for once. In WW2 most of the kills were achieved because the victim never saw them. In AH you can quick scan the views not caring to really see whats there but just looking for the red billboard. It will also add teamplay and some real ACM situation (aka, losing sight of the con you were following)
2) No dar bar below 200 ft
3) RADAR: Dot radar avaliable 30 miles from any friendly field BUT (and BUT!) the dot dar is only UPDATED every 5 seconds. This will get rid of the "I can see you in dar during the cloud fight" dweeb tactic and will give players the chance to find each other and fight. If you see a red dot near you, you will have to stop staring at the clipboard map and scan the skies, 'cause that con may already be diving on you!
4) More cloud layers (with no icons it will be VERY fun.. and gives buff pilots an added problem & cover)
5) Gun Jams (CHOKE ON YOUR HISPANOS %$%#$ CHOGS muahahahaah)
6) Engine Overheat (aka, running at 100% manifold will put your engine on the redline and THEN maybe blow up or cough into silence)
7) Repair Depots in airfields (to waste perk points repairing your perk rides)
8) Add bomb dispersion so buffs arent laser-accurate and introduce carpet bombing to the game.
9) Add some 5k or 8k fields in the home islands/home area so buffs can take off them and not waste the entire hour climbing (which is why I think there are so few bomber raids).
10) Give fleet gunners a raised point of view from which to fire control the guns. The CON TOWER on the ships is the best place imho.
11) Fix the damn FLAK.


[This message has been edited by Tac (edited 01-16-2001).]

[AKDejaVu]

My idea of realitiy is sweating off 10 lbs just sitting down for one sortie just from stress and excitement alone.  If HTC can achieve this... housewives across the land will be more accepting of the time their hubbies spend on the computer

AKDejaVu

[Dos Equis]

I don't agree that iconless arena for enemies is the way to go. It's too confusing for newbies. We tried and tried iconless arenas in WB. They were totally unpopular, even amongst the diehards. Instead lower the distance at which icons appear. WHat is it now, 9-10? Make that 5-6 and you can get bounces if you add...

Sun Blindness. This was awesome in WB the way HT had it. Killer. Icons and dots vanished when they were close to the sun. Combine lowered icon ranges with sun blindness and you WILL see bounces work. The coding trick will be to make sun blindness not work underneath clouds. I'd take it with sun blindness through clouds, though, just because clouds aren't a big part of the game.

Engine overheat should be a part of WEP. Instead of just having WEP turn off, make the engine approach overheating and sputter out if you leave WEP on too long. That gives the heat guage a purpose.

Putting in the Norden delay would be welcome. As it is you can bank the plane, whatever. As long as the crosshairs are on, boom perfect hit, no matter the angle of the plane, etc. Make course and speed corrections catch up with the Norden, and you will see alot of misses.

XX

[Hooligan]

The MA is a compromise arena, probably the best compromise by far that I have seen.  IMO HTC really knows what they are doing with it so I hope their changes to it continue to be steady and thoughful as they have been in the past.

As far as inconless arenas, ez mode, etc.... all of these appeal to certain smaller subsets and I certainly hope that someday HTC has 20 full arenas so that everybody gets to fly in an arena that closely matches their tastes.  Right now we only have enough players to support a single arena.  Do your part and sign up some friends.

Hooligan

[Suave1]

I'm in the very small minority that would love an axis vs allies arena with evolving planeset . No icons and no clipboard radar with long nights and realistically inaccurate buff guns . I asked HiTech when he was online if AH would EVER have an AvA arena, he said that he doubted it  

[Yeager]

Totally with XX!

Sun must be a factor as well as engine degradation due to overheat.  WBs (HiTech) had several great features that have not yet been implimented.  I wish we could have the compression modeling HiTech used in WBs.

Yeager

[Tac]

I didnt say iconless arena. I said friendly icons only. Any black dot in the distance that does not have a billboard is enemy.

When you are in a con's 6 trying to follow him, dont tell me you dont simply use your views to just look for the billboard with the ID icon of the plane you were following.

Its ridiculous. I fly H2H with my friends without icons and those are REAL, exciting and sweating dogfights... we lose sight of each other, circle, extend, etc. Play with enemy icons on and all you get are wusses taking d1.1+ shots thanks to their laser rangefinder, and people who are completely relying on the icons because they know that they will re-acquire their target in a split second.

Has AH ever had a friendly-icon only scenario? has it ever been tried with a lot of pilots? Really, it does give the game a true approach to ww2 aerial combat.

[lazs]

well... I think the GAME is targeted for the largest group of WWII area flight sim junkies... The ones who want to have action and fun.   Worthless and contoversial busy work features are just that.   Some of the less well read guys believe that they have found ways to neuter their own personal demon planes with "realism".... Say, the myth that hispanos are any less reliable than other 20mm for instance... These guys would not be at all enthusiastic if they realized how much more unreliable the german electric primers were than standard anvil primers or, that some U.S. fifties could be recharged after a jam while airborn say.

Others... are just very interested in detail.. they like detail at the expense of fun... No, not quite, they actually believe detail is fun.   They are in the minority and many anal engine management systems would bore existing players and chase away new ones.   All to very little purpose.   Shove everything all the way to the stop and you would "realistically" be fine for as long as our sorties are anyway.

Axis vs allied?  Glad that ones off the table.
lazs

[Jimdandy]

 

Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
My idea of realitiy is sweating off 10 lbs just sitting down for one sortie just from stress and excitement alone.  If HTC can achieve this... housewives across the land will be more accepting of the time their hubbies spend on the computer  

AKDejaVu

LOL! Now for just 29.95 try the new AH workout! Here the testimonials! "Honey you've been looking so slim and trim and manly lately what have you done."

"Well Babe it's that new AH work out program. Just 1hr a day and I'm feeling like a new man."  



[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 01-16-2001).]

[Jimdandy]

Dang I have to ask this. Everyone does understand that the MA as it stands now would still exist. I will say it again. I think we will need more players total than are signed up at present to get enough people to fill even a small arena of say fifty people. You will have to have a lot of people signed up to get a statistically large enough crowed that would be interested in something like this. It may be a couple of years down the road. I'm getting the impression everyone that doesn't like the idea thinks I want it implemented tomorrow. I also have to admit that wanting and having may be two different things. I might try that arena and think it stinks. In the end it will be the people at HT that will decide if it is economically feasible. They probably aren't even thinking of it.

[Sancho]

(LOL BigBen!!   )

Jimdandy, I vote no full-time HA, no RPS, no unnecessary realism in the MA.  My opinion:  realism arena == scenarios.

I think HTC should strive to make the best sim around by keeping it accessable to newbies--meaning don't burden the user with unneeded complexity--while focusing on things that matter to the vets that have made the game what it is today, like perfecting the flight, damage, and ballistics models... never tweaking or nerfing weapons or flight models for gameplay's sake.  Further, they need to flesh out the planeset and foster more community-driven events (yes, they already happen, just not often enough for my taste).  In short, I believe those who are asking for a full-time realism or historical arena would be happier flying large scenarios on a more regular basis.

"Too much of a good thing...."
I'm all for historical matchups, realism, and one-life events... they rock!  But I don't want it all the time.  Really, flying an hour escorting bombers, eyes peeled for bandits the whole way, fighting for a few intense minutes over the target, then RTB'ing on vapor with battle damage, and landing with less than 5% fuel remaining is mentally exhausting.  I'm not a WW2 pilot and I don't want to deal with that stress every flight!  Lets face it, the CMs have a lot of work to pull off scenarios too... they can't do it all the time either.  A full time realism arena couldn't possibly have the full-time organization needed to support the realistic flights it is meant for.  It would quickly become under-utilized and boring.

The MA is soooo much easier and amusing (that is what we're here for, right?) to deal with on a regular basis.  I want to be able to log in at any time and get some action!  Also, you can think of the MA as training ground for the scenarios.  Fly with a wingman or a squad and learn team tactics... or just repeatedly solo launch from a capped field in a CHog and HO everyone in sight--whatever you're in the mood for!

Aces High is still a young sim, relatively speaking.  Scenarios (big ones, little ones, impromptu ones) will get more popular in time, which will lead to them being held in multiple time slots, as they do in WarBirds.  When the community has everything it needs (more planes, more power to the CMs) there will be more scenarios.  If you're still unhappy, get a WarBirds account and fly SLs, S3s, and EMCs... they're still a hell of a lot of fun and draw huge numbers, even if WB's graphics suck compared to Aces High.

Okay, what do I mean about more power to the CMs?  How about if a CM had the ability to load new maps in a special events arena on the fly?  He could set icon ranges to the yard--or turn em off completely.  He could turn off the map overview and radar in flight, leaving radar only in tower and radar-equipped planes.  Toggle engine overheats and no auto wep-off safety.  Maybe control alter a random aircraft part failure variable (ug, I really don't like that!).  The CM could have complete control over a single special events arena during his scheduled time.  The CM could make it as "hard-core" or as ez as the players want.  HTC gives us some more early and mid-war planes (not just late war uber rides) and I guarantee that place will see some serious action, and HTC will have many more $30/mo "hard-core" customers who join just for the organized events.

HA has been tried and failed.  Scenarios work.
--
Sancho
http://www.jump.net/~cs3" TARGET=_blank>63rd FS, 56th FG
"Zemke's Wolfpack"
 

[lazs]

Well said sancho.... I am the perenial newbie... I have been doing this for years but still furball and have a good time.  I have yet to see a scenario that even tempted me to join in.  I think there is a place for em but they aren't for everyone.

Two arenas won't work... One will be deserted.   RPS will chase away players as will axis vs allied.   Perk planes will be a disaster for the growth of the player base IMO...

There is of course a way to introduce early and late war planes into the arena that will be fair and not hamper choice or give anyone an advantage/disadvantage tho.

The way I look at it.... I would rather lose one "realism" vet and gain 1-4 newbies anyday.
lazs

[Pepino]

Thks for this thread, Jimdandy. The least I can think of it is as a wonderful feedback gauge for Htc. Everyone of us is neatly portrayed here, I guess.

I woud not split Arenas. Not enough numbers yet.

OTOH, I would not think on newbies as a reason for not toughening the model, let alone tone down the one we have now. Neither I would think on the ones that like it as it is for the gameplay issue...Tuning down realism, or stopping evolution would not add anything positive, IMO, to this sim.

The way to deal with newbies is help. This mean taking the pain of going out and fly with them, etc. There is no help in easing the model. And there is no improvement in leaving the things as they are now.

Happily, AH is an evolving and ongoing matter, and as time goes by, the rolling releases will please ones and unplease others. But moving towards a realistic environment will attract perhaps fewer people, but will keep this sim away from CFS2, CK, AW, FA, and the like. If somebody find this sim to bee to hard, and the learning curve too steep, there are other flavours outside. The problem is with the ones that want the opposite. There is no alternative.

I am happy to be shot down in the most challenging combat sim in the market. Not the hardest for the sake of being the hardest, but the hardest for the sake of being the closest to the real thing. I am a WWII aficionado, and I like all this stuff. And I like this sim because it can provide lots of fun, and a smell of what involved to be there, if you just imagine it's not your virtual, but your real life that is at risk.

This is the way I would like AH to keep moving to. As close to the real thing as possible. Of course there will be gameplay concessions, dimensions of our virtual battlefield and fuel multiplier comes to mind, but keep them as few & little as possible. Realism is not easy, both to model and to manage. But is the only solution to add ways to try to reverse tables, sneak attack, strategy, tactics, etc. The kind of things that make this THE game for me.

As this thread prays...reality, what a concept!

Cheers,

Pepe