Author Topic: Fighting v. Running – hmmm...  (Read 842 times)

Offline beet1e

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Fighting v. Running – hmmm...
« on: June 09, 2003, 09:59:26 PM »
A common complaint in this game recently is that too many people run from a fight instead of making a go of it. Fair enough, although the old (WB) culture that I have been used to placed the emphasis on surviving (in which case points awarded for kills were tripled) whereas here in AH the name of the game is to fight to the last bullet and auger (to avoid wasting time on RTB, and thereby boosting k/t :rolleyes: ). I decided I would be a bit more aggressive today, and to engage in fights even where it seemed inadvisable, knowing that I would die a lot more, but in the hope of making the game more interesting for both myself and my opponents. In all the following, I was in a 109G10.

P51 Cherrypicker. I had taken off with 100% fuel – as one does in a 109. Then I saw a dot up high, and it’s showing on dar as a con. Must have been 10K above me. All righty then, I’ll climb up and see what happens, but clearly I'm a sitting duck if I venture too far from the field. By the time I had got to within 5K of his alt, the P51 has circled behind me. My speed was low as I turned to face him, and here he comes, hammering towards me. I avoided what might have been an HO attempt, but he got behind me, and pinged off my rudder as I dived for safety – which happened to be above the field, but hey – I’d not long since taken off... He pulls off, and I grab alt and chandelle over to be looking down on him. Then follows a bit of scissoring, and I end up on his 6. Just as he’s running for his life at 1.8, he accuses me of being an ack runner! If that was in reference to my evasive dive, so be it. And with no rudder, I was somewhat compromised. Ends up with him running away “to answer a call to another part of the map”. Right. Well, he was a gentleman about it, and I couldn’t fight much without my rudder, so that was the end of that engagement.

Spit and LA5 nose wipes. I had taken off to check out a con which had augered or been killed by the time I could get to him. So I went to the next nearest enemy field. I shot a MOSS, but then two of the deceased’s friends decided there was a score to settle. I found myself co-alt or very slightly higher than a Spit and an LA5. The see-saw began, but every time I got an opportunity to kill one of them, by the time I was close enough to get a shot with the spud cannon, they would turn. I did eventually kill the LA5 as he tried to set up an HO, but hadn’t quite completed his manoeuvre by the time I loosed of a couple of spuds. But because of the distance I’d already flown, I was out of fuel and had to auger. I both Spit & LA5 and apologised for not being able to continue – a bit like the handshake if resigning from a chess game, or any game. The spit pilot's response was to shoot my chute. Hardly a handshake – felt more as if he’d wiped his nose on my tie. Thank you very freaking much.

Alt Monkey, who conveniently overlooks his Aces and Kings. I was in a 1v1 with a Spit. This fight had begun from something else – we had just stumbled into eachother. Neither had much of an advantage, and as my G10 mentor Urchin would agree, the G10 v Spit 9 fights often end in stalemate just as this one did. Because of the length of time it had gone on, two other guys thought they would join in, making it a 3 v 1. One guy was a 205 which I’d seen before – no problem. The other was a P51 with about a 10 K alt advantage at least. He came screaming down from on high, and I disengaged with the Spit and turned for base. I was nudging 500mph TAS, with the P51 still closing. He closed from 5.0 to less than 1.0 – and later asked me why I hadn’t turned to fight – LOL!!!!! Oh sure, and present him with the perfect opportunity for a deflection shot with his .50 cal lasers. No thanks. If not that, then the Spit or 205 would have got me for sure. The P51 pilot was so consumed with killing me that he forgot about the ack - and my friends - never saw him again.

The Steamroller. A noob Spit had just come in and tried for an HO. I thought I could avoid it but get just close enough to squeeze off a spud or two. I left it too late. I killed the Spit, but my wing was pinged off. So I reupped to find a bunch more noobs inbound. Hehe, they were crap – came in high but blew all their alt in one pass. I was engaging an F4U which was near the deck. I thought he was going to follow my zoom climb, but wisely he didn’t – ran out to sea instead. So as I tried to reacquire my target, I was killed by the Spit I’d shot down a few minutes earlier. By that time, the steamroller had a full head of steam, and the usual four or five plane types showed up. Just in case you can’t remember the list, they are: P51, Spit, YAK, LA7. Not having received a 6-call from my “friends”, I decided to bugger off elsewhere...

Real Life Scenario. Francis Gabreski was flying a P47 over Germany one day, when he noticed a 109 on his tail. I don’t suppose anyone here would suggest Gabreski was a coward, so can you guess what happened next? Did he turn back to face the 109 – perhaps get into a turnfight? Hell no. He decided that it was safe to “run the guy out of ammo”. The gap between them must have been considerable. Anyhow, Gabreski took a hit on his rudder and the impact was so severe that the rudder pedal was deflected with such force that it snapped off against his foot. He dare not look at his foot in case there was blood. He thought the sight of blood might make him pass out. Then he descended into cloud and made some turns, and lost the 109 that way.

After hearing the various whines about “cowardice” – both in the text buffer and on this BBS, I am now able to form my own opinion. Yes this is a game, and yes maybe some guys run from a fight just as Gabreski did. And just as I did when I knew I had no other chance to survive. But it seems to me that at least SOME of the fight-don’t-run whiners conveniently overlook the odds when those odds are overwhelmingly in their favour. They don’t just want a fight. They want you to hand them your own head on a plate.

Offline DVDA

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Fighting v. Running – hmmm...
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2003, 10:29:47 PM »
in your steam roller story, what enemy base where you at and which country?

Offline Hornet

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Fighting v. Running – hmmm...
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2003, 10:34:45 PM »
this is a funny story
Hornet

Offline Toad

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Fighting v. Running – hmmm...
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2003, 11:00:44 PM »
You bailed?

Whatever for?

........and how do you do that, anyway?
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Offline nopoop

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Fighting v. Running – hmmm...
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2003, 11:05:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Beet1e
I would be a bit more aggressive today, and to engage in fights even where it seemed inadvisable


Different worlds.

The fight, when engaged as you stated, is the best from a "fighters" point of reference.

It can end with your demise ( in my case more than not ), but a good fight is worth the price of admission.

And if you come up victorious, there's the speeches and advertising endorsments.

But in the end..

If it was a GOOD fight.

It takes a place in your mind.

Win or lose.

In no way is it "same'o same'o".

The "light" burns.
nopoop

It's ALL about the fight..

Offline Blue Mako

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Re: Fighting v. Running – hmmm...
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2003, 11:59:01 PM »
Beet1e:
Quote
But because of the distance I’d already flown, I was out of fuel and had to auger... The spit pilot's response was to shoot my chute


This is the kind of dweeby "fly till out of something then auger" approach you rolled your eyes at at the start of your post...

and also:

If you augered how could he shoot your chute?

Offline TheManx

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Fighting v. Running – hmmm...
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2003, 12:37:29 AM »
I usually wish they were more aggressive when I'm chasing them, and less aggressive when they're chasing me.

Offline rod367th

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Fighting v. Running – hmmm...
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2003, 12:54:43 AM »
Well I'm sure alot like me. If I hear guy complaining on channel 1. Either ack hugger, runner . hey you going to turn, stick stirrier, lagayboy, and oh running to friends. All this does is tell me guy complaining pissed because other pilot was smart. And all this guy wants is advantage.................... ..



 Calls guy ack huuger = I have alt come on out
 Runner= I'm in better turn fighter
 Run to friends= oh i know i wouldv'e had u   YA right
 complain about others plane types = DWEEB
« Last Edit: June 10, 2003, 05:09:05 AM by rod367th »

Offline Pepe

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Fighting v. Running – hmmm...
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2003, 04:09:29 AM »
Well...

I will start with my appologies to the community for a long burst on ch1 after what, after some cooling, I can only blame to frustration about a clever use of own ack and friendlies by my adversary.

I would like to offer my appologies to Remie, should he read this boards, too. It was a little bit too much on my side.

He fought a clever 2 (Yak and G-10) vs 1 (G-10) (he was outnumbered although he had alt advantage and could pretty much control de fight). He engaged a buddy (Yak) and when I (G-10) joined the fight from below he blew his advantage and then ran. That's just correct in my book, and my words about "cowardice" were out of place. While he was very far from being an aggresive pilot, his usage of ack and friendly cap was correct in my book and what anyone would expect from a pilot who lost advantage and rather like living than fighting against odds.

I won't whine about this or that way of fighting, as I fully admit that each one can use his $14.95 the way he wants. I perceive my frustration comes mainly from the feeling that interesting fights are becoming less and less common.

I guess burnout season approaching.

Offline LUPO

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Fighting v. Running – hmmm...
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2003, 06:09:04 AM »
Pepe.

Offline Phyre

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Fighting v. Running – hmmm...
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2003, 09:12:04 AM »
No one can ever say i ran, ack hugged or what ever:D

I do stupudly run into fights that i will enevitably lose, or i dive into ack or etc.  i also auger when need to grab goon or hurry for hq defense etc.

my point is that sometimes i win sometimes i lose, but as i see if you enemies are engaging me, then they arent on a squadie or who ever and just possibly the mission will succeed. if your on me then the other guy might just make it.

what does get my gull is when one clearly has advantage then runs to buddies, i figure if your up in a fighter you come to my base- then be prepared to fight!!! if not go play another game:)


i very seldom see anyone willing to engage 1v1 at coalt or etc.


also suprised the cherry pickin-run king hasnt givin his 2 cents yet.

we all know who that is:)

Offline gofaster

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Fighting v. Running – hmmm...
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2003, 09:14:06 AM »
You guys just need to start using my new MudFlapGirl-gunsightv2 to keep a perspective on things when the fighting gets intense.  Shoot me an email at nascargofaster@yahoo.com and I'll even throw in a couple of drum loops you can use as replacement sounds.  I use one of them as my new "treads" sound on GVs.

Offline Manedew

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Fighting v. Running – hmmm...
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2003, 09:31:37 AM »
story of how I got good at AH:

went looking for cons with more alt/E than me :D...


If all you do is run you'll never escape when you really want to... like when you have no E, 10 kills and lots of respawned cons looking for revenge....


I BnZ.... but rarely run even from 2 on 1 situations
« Last Edit: June 10, 2003, 09:37:14 AM by Manedew »

Offline Shane

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Fighting v. Running – hmmm...
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2003, 09:37:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Manedew
story of how I got good

went looking for cons with more alt/E than me :D


that's exactly what i did... and still do.  i see a bad guy in the distance, or 2, i'll head their way even if they're higher than me.
Surrounded by suck and underwhelmed with mediocrity.
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Offline Apache

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Fighting v. Running – hmmm...
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2003, 09:53:12 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Manedew
story of how I got good at AH:

went looking for cons with more alt/E than me :D...


If all you do is run you'll never escape when you really want to... like when you have no E, 10 kills and lots of respawned cons looking for revenge....


I BnZ.... but rarely run even from 2 on 1 situations


Exactly Manedew.

A BK trade mark is fly below everyone giving our 6 to anyone looking, wait for 'em to come down for the "helpless, low con", then reverse and blast 'em. Its surprising nowadays that not many will take your 6. They go right back up or high tail it outta dodge.