Author Topic: Ok, my solution for the non-problem of 'diversity' (Read 2096 times)

Mini D · « **Reply #15 on:** June 27, 2003, 07:50:51 AM »

How is it forcing people into other rides? Ummmmm.... take a moment and seriously think about that.

What is it intended to do? Is it intended to make life more or less uncomfortable for one group? Is it strictly positive?

Sorry... but its not. The best you can argue is "It won't hurt them as bad as perking their planes".

Fixing problems that don't exist is not good policy... period.

MiniD

muckmaw · « **Reply #16 on:** June 27, 2003, 08:57:54 AM »

I would tend to think a problem does exist if it is getting this much attention on the BBS of late.

I don't know the numbers but it almost looks even split between those bored of the current MA environment, and those who think everything is fine as is.

Why does'nt someone post a poll so we can see if this is a problem for the bulk of the community..(well at least the portion that actually reads the BBS) or not?

Mini D · « **Reply #17 on:** June 27, 2003, 09:17:48 AM »

You said the magic words: Bored with the MA.

As far as complaining about this "problem"... its been around for a long time... back when planes were used half again to twice as much as they are now. Hell... people complained about seeing too many Spitfires when there were only 4 planes.

The fact is, the people in the MA decide what they want to fly. Attempting to dictate it is not a solution.

Personally, I wish people cared less about what the better ride was and cared more about following their heart with plane selection. "What's the best plane?" is a question that it pains me to see on Ch. 1.

The solution? Add more planes. You stand a better chance of getting people into the rides they actually like if its actually available. Right now, there's a good chance it isn't.

Of course, we now have an arena where people are trying to compete with their betters. How are they supposed to do that if only their betters can afford the really cool planes?

Elitism. Elitism. Elitism.

MiniD

Nifty · « **Reply #18 on:** June 27, 2003, 09:38:11 AM »

Check my MA scores to see my solution to the "problem."

no, don't waste your time. I'll tell you. I just don't fly the MA anymore. I get variety in the CT every weekend (tho lately, just on Fridays.) Last week was USAAF vs LW in late war, tonight is P-40E vs C202 action.

Of course, it's not for everyone, and frankly, I don't care.

I enjoy it, my squaddies enjoy it, and a few other people to shoot at enjoy it so that's all that matters... of course getting them to switch sides so it's not 20 to 10 numbers is a pain.

Karnak · « **Reply #19 on:** June 27, 2003, 03:10:17 PM »

AKCurly, Mini D,

Well, shucks, then you must just hate the current perk system 'cause his idea just changes the awards.

His idea didn't force anybody to change aircraft. It didn't perk any aircraft that are currently free. You'd still be able to fly Spit IXs, P-51Ds, La-7s and N1K2s for absolutely free. All he did was suggest that the rewards for flying the less common aircraft be increased to what he thinks would be meaningful levels.

There was nothing in is suggestion that would force people to do anything and how it would make you uncomfortable I haven't a clue.

What is it? Something like "Its not fair that the guy flying that P-40B got 480 perk points for landing two Spitfire Mk IX kills but I only got 2.5 perk points for doing the same in my P-51D?

How does that make you uncomfortable?

He isn't trying to force people into other aircraft by making them uncomfortable, he is simply adding a bigger carrot to the rarer aircraft to add value to them. The common aircraft already have large carrots from the performce they have and that wouldn't change. In no way did he reduce the carrots of the popular aircraft as nobody flies them for perk gathering anyways. Hell, they'd even still get a full perk point for shooting eachother down.

No, it is clear to me that your reactions were knee jerk responses to an issue that many posters feel needs addressing and many others feel is not an issue.

Toad · « **Reply #20 on:** June 27, 2003, 03:25:13 PM »

How do I solve the personal problem of trying to see perk points as "meaningful" in some (any?) way?

I know, it's a personal problem.

SunKing · « **Reply #21 on:** June 27, 2003, 03:31:24 PM »

The plan is good but the people that live in the SPit9 LA7 N1k1 P51D wont care about the changed ENY value plan Urchin suggested, only the rest of us who like to fly the early war plane set. Hate to say it but perking planes is the only way you are ever gonna change someone elses ride of choice.

Furious · « **Reply #22 on:** June 27, 2003, 03:34:51 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
How do I solve the personal problem of trying to see perk points as "meaningful" in some (any?) way?...

We could have them redeamable for AH gear. 5,000 gets you a #2 pencil with an AH logo. 7,500 gets you the ball point pen. 20,000 would net you an AH mug and at 30,000 you get the hat.

Mini D · « **Reply #23 on:** June 27, 2003, 04:57:51 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
AKCurly, Mini D,
His idea didn't force anybody to change aircraft. It didn't perk any aircraft that are currently free. You'd still be able to fly Spit IXs, P-51Ds, La-7s and N1K2s for absolutely free. All he did was suggest that the rewards for flying the less common aircraft be increased to what he thinks would be meaningful levels.

Is rewarding one behavior penalizing another one? Think about it just a little more karnak... I know you can do it.

You aren't enticing people to fly other planes by giving them extra perk points... you're effectively reducing the number of points for what they are currently flying. That way... the people the fly the off-beat planes can afford even... um... more uber than the otherguy's planes?

MiniD

Arlo · « **Reply #24 on:** June 27, 2003, 05:07:07 PM »

Another reminder ....

A dedicated Pac arena .... (with more balance by creating a Japanese planeset that simulates unlimited production of the limited number of somewhat more uber IJ planes that saw some service during the war).

A dedicated SCW arena that has an SCW planeset and terrain featuring uber-bipes and fields close together (which is historically correct, even) ... furball heaven. Mucho grande' funo.

Thank you ... now resuming the perk method of fixing things to be more fun for everyone.

Karnak · « **Reply #25 on:** June 27, 2003, 05:21:32 PM »

Quote

Is rewarding one behavior penalizing another one? Think about it just a little more karnak... I know you can do it.

No. If it were I could consider Bill Gates to be penalizing me because he makes more money.

Quote

You aren't enticing people to fly other planes by giving them extra perk points... you're effectively reducing the number of points for what they are currently flying.

Not by all that much though given than a large percentage of their kills are made up of Spit IXs, N1K2s and P-51Ds. Aircraft that they now get only a perk point for and for which they would still get a single perk point. They'd actually get a little more for the La-7 than they do now.

Yes, they would get less for the rarer aircraft, but they hardly get anything now so it isn't much of a real number reduction.

Keep in mind that the current system does this same thing, just not to the extremes of Urchin's idea.

Above and beyond that players who are on the edge of flying other things besides the Big Four would have a reason to do so.

Quote

That way... the people the fly the off-beat planes can afford even... um... more uber than the otherguy's planes?

That is the idea of the current perk system too. Urchin's idea hasn't changed that at all.

To change that it would have to be set so that getting a kill in the Spitfire Mk IX (first place killer) would get you just as many perk points as getting a kill in the P-40B (last place killer). Does that sound like a good idea?

Mini D · « **Reply #26 on:** June 27, 2003, 07:14:00 PM »

Karnak, if it hasn't changed anything... how is it going to change anything again?

You can't have your cake and eat it too. It just doesn't work that way.

MiniD

Urchin · « **Reply #27 on:** June 27, 2003, 07:25:24 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mini D
Is rewarding one behavior penalizing another one? Think about it just a little more karnak... I know you can do it.

You aren't enticing people to fly other planes by giving them extra perk points... you're effectively reducing the number of points for what they are currently flying. That way... the people the fly the off-beat planes can afford even... um... more uber than the otherguy's planes?

MiniD

Not true DJ. If you do nothing but fly the La-7, yes you might earn slightly fewer perks for killing a P-40B than you do now. Instead of getting 1/6th of a point, you'd get like 1/200th of one. However, if you kill another La-7 you still get 1 point, just like you do now. If you kill a Spitfire, you get 1 point, if you kill a N1K2 you get 1 point, if you kill a P-51D you get 1 point. You might see a slight drop in perk points gotten from the "second tier" planes, like if you killed a D-9 now you'd get about .75 of a perk, if they changed the system you'd get about .33 of one. That could change, depending on how much the second tier planes get used as perk gatherers.

Furthermore, the perk costs of the current perk planes aren't rising. You kill 8 P-51s in an La-7, and you can still fly a C-hog. Kill 20 and you have enough points to fly a Ta-152. Skip the Ta-152 and 40 kills later you have enough to fly a Spit 14 or Tempest. The only difference is that the people flying the low-use planes can get more perks per kill. That is the only difference.

Karnak · « **Reply #28 on:** June 27, 2003, 07:56:49 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mini D
Karnak, if it hasn't changed anything... how is it going to change anything again?

You can't have your cake and eat it too. It just doesn't work that way.

MiniD

You misread what I meant I think. I meant that it didn't change anything vis a' vis punishing players for flying Spit IXs, La-7s, P-51Ds or N1K2-Js. They aren't really punished now and they wouldn't really be punished under Urchin's system.

It does change the reward for flying lower usage aircraft and those petential rewards might induce some players to try some new aircraft.

You guys are making it out to be a fundamental change in the game and all it really is a change in the degree of the rewards for flying rare aircraft.

Mini D · « **Reply #29 on:** June 27, 2003, 08:00:51 PM »

Pray tell urchin... what are they going to do with all those additional perk points? What are they going to do when they can get 200 perk points with one kill?

Tell me again how this is going to promote use for the lesser planes... or is it for the perk planes? Or what?

Of course, now that just one sortie in a "lesser" plane can get me into an Me262... why fly it much more than that?

You aren't considering anything really... other than just trying to penalize the lessers by giving their betters perk planes after a single sortie?

Nah... not penalizing... and will do nothing but increase the ammount of lesser utilized planes (perk planes included).

Too many holes to waste any more time on urchin. You keep trying to crusade on behalf of the betters. It suits you.

MiniD