Icons in AH

[Fastbikkel]

S! all,

I have seen a discussion about this before, i just want to give my opinion on this.

I prefer a system where you can only see the enemy planes identified by a red pixel or the country he belongs to.
No range, no aircraft type, no data!

This, IMO, would realy enhance realism.
I only don't know how other people think about it and if HTC is going to read this.

Does anyone agree??


See ya all,

JG5FaBi.

[MANDOBLE]

With our actual graphics and POV it will be really difficult to calculate the range to any plane, and much more difficult to calculate the closure rate. In real life both calculations are done easily.

I'll agree with your idea with a 200 inches monitor and running the program at 10000x10000 pixels ...

[Citabria]

 

In real life both calculations are done easily.

roadkill

[MANDOBLE]

Citabria, in real life we dont have pixels. Time delayed between when you se a one pixel contact and when you see a 3 pixels one is long and you dont know if it is closing or going far away during this period. In real life you see a smooth and constant increase or decrease of the plane shape size. That is impossible in a very limited pixel resolution world.

As an example:
you following a 109 at 900 yards. the 109 wing spawn is 15 pixels. The separation gained by the 109 to be represented by 13 pixels (wing span) could be 100 yards, and more and more while the 109 increases separation. So, you have  a clear idea about closure rate every 100 yards gained or lost with the enemy at a base of 900 yards. In RL the shape of 109 will decrease constantly while it separates from you, and you'll know all the time it you are closing or loosing the race unless it is really far away.

[Citabria]

 

and you'll know all the time it you are closing or loosing the race unless it is really far away.

so you must have a whole bunch of real experience in this matter?

next time you think about judging closure rate go stand directly in front of a frieght train and see how well you can judge its closure rate. easy to do right?

[This message has been edited by Citabria (edited 05-10-2001).]

[Fastbikkel]

LOL


You guys are right about that.
But, i rather fly with no icons, but that would scare a lot of people i think.

But one little red pixel over an enemy plane, seems good for me.
The thing about closure rate and so, it is indeed hard to see a target closing or running away from you. Higher resolutions improves it, but it stays hard.

Don't get me wrong. I fly soaring planes myself, and when i see a plane at 3 kilometers away, coming at you head on, it is hard to see. Eventually you will notice it, but it takes some time.
Or maybe it is my bad eyes.

And a soearing plane is much bigger than a 109 for example.

I think it will work with a red pixel as i mentioned.

We will see what HTC does.

Thanks for the reactions,

JG5FaBi.

[Karnak]

Citabria,
MANDOBLE is not talking about correctly identifying meter accuracy closure rates at short range.  What he is talking about is the ability to tell whether or not you are gaining on a Cessna/Spitfire/P-38/109/A6M at 15,000 ft distance.  In AH, without the range indicator, you can't tell.  1 pixel is 1pixel, it doesn't become 2 pixels or 0 pixels unless a huge amount of space has been crossed.

------------------
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-Karnak

[MANDOBLE]

Exact Karnak, I was beginning to think that the problem was in my english, thank you for confirming it was not the case  

Anyway I'll explain it with a much simpler example for Citabria. Imagine a red square at front of you, if you walk towards it, and it is not really far away, you'll notice you are aproaching. Now imagine you can see the square with only 3 sizes, small, medium and large. Large when you are really close, and so on. Unless you are in the exact limit between two sizes, you'll never know if you are aproaching it.

[Maverick]

IMO those claiming you can spot a plane in the air while flying themselves have no clue as to how hard it is. Please take a ride or go flying yourself and fly in the pattern of a non controlled airport where you have to depend on your own eyes to maintain separation from aircraft in a SMALL area and see how hard it is to spot something as small as a WW2 fighter in even close (3 miles) proximity. That would involve speeds only ranging from 85 MPH to about 150 MPH much less speeds indicated in this game with closure rates up to 700 and 800 MPH.

I have a bit of experience at this as my plane is based at a non controlled airport. It gets rather nerve wracking on a weekend when the pattern is crowded with planes ranging from Cessna 150's to experimentals to Beech King Airs (twin turbo props) and biz jets.

Mav

[Gadfly]

Estimating vectors and closure rates is much harder in RL than it is in any online game with icons.  On the other hand, with some practice, you can id planes and predict vector pretty well with icons off.

Try it.  I fly without icons all the time.

[2Late4U]

In RL there is a resolution hundreds of times what we get on our current monitors.  There is also the stereoscopic view you have that automatically tells you if you are getting closer or farther away with a great deal of fidelity.

I can follow a car 50 yards ahead of me without even thinking about it, keeping a very consistant distance even as it slows down and speeds up.  There is no way I can do this on a computer game, the feedback just isnt there.  The same goes for the ID.  I can tell a Camero from a Corvette from a Ferrari at a mile away...try that at 1024x768.  At 2k you cant tell anything except its a fighter or a buff.

   

[Hammer Head]

 

Originally posted by Citabria:
so you must have a whole bunch of real experience in this matter?

Everybody has Citabria.  Every time you catch a ball, drive a car, cross the street, you are mentally calculating closure rates, ranges and bearings.  The brain is very efficient at this knid of calculations.  The difference is that our brain doesn't put numbers to it unless we train it to.  It just tells us when is the right time to jump, cross the road or slam on the car brakes.  Try thinking about what you are saying before you slam someone for making a statement, especially when they are correct.