Author Topic: New Damage request  (Read 434 times)

Offline Scootter

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1050
New Damage request
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2001, 02:04:00 PM »
INDN
<S>
I agree with your sugestions and this type of system damage should be doable (sp?)
and would add a nice realism level. I also think any addition to realism is a good thing my only concern is not getting so boged down with the details that we lose other things we need (want) more after all HTC is only six people. IMO growth is important for the sim and making it to real for realitys sake can go to far. Don't get me wrong I am a pilot and love the sim (though I still suck) but the learning curve is steep here (rember more new members is a good thing for all of us as HTC can do more as $$ come in) I think a way to sum it up is the progression can have two tracks Graphics and Realism and Game Play. with additions added to each along the way. I like to see this kind of request a lot more then Perk this and this plane is 5.7 mph to slow when inverted the the real one. If it adds to the game and is fairly painless to implament great. I like the partial panel idea and that should be real easy to do. Boy long winded here sorry.

Scoot out

Mr. T

  • Guest
New Damage request
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2001, 02:09:00 PM »
If you guys wouldn't mind random instrumentation failure due to gunfire, then it would be EXTREMELY easy to implement.

Anytime you take a hit, anywhere... the game runs a section of code that randomly draws a number. Each number represents either an instrument being damaged or nothing.

If you are unlucky enough to get shot and the random instrument damage code runs through it's loop and picks out a number that damages an instrument, then you lose that instrument.

That's easy to setup, it's just a matter of... would you guys like it.. (no I don't work for HTC and have no influence on what they do... I'm just saying it would be easy to make)
-SW

Sorrow[S=A]

  • Guest
New Damage request
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2001, 06:43:00 PM »
Indian, I think you are confused- what you want is allready there.

An aileron can be stuck, same as a rudder or stab.

Offline MarkVZ

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 101
New Damage request
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2001, 07:10:00 PM »
What gets me isn't so much that you lose a whole wing panel when it gets shot off, but it's the fact that it just cleanly falls off the plane.  In the pictures and footage that I've seen, mostly in buffs, when the wing gets shot up enough to fail, it folds upwards before it comes off.  This is because the wing panel is still producing lift, but there isn't sufficient structure to hold it in position, so it pivots around the failure point.  I have had a few R/C models whose wings have failed and I can say that the same thing happened.  Made me sick to my stomach when I pulled a gentle loop with one of my favorite planes and the wings just bent upwards, leaving the fuselage to fall to the earth uncontrolled.  That will teach me to make my strut-bolts extra tight.

Just the general cleanliness of the failures detracts from the realism IMO.  To cleanly cut something such as a control surface off with gunfire alone would be tough.  You would have to sever every hinge point and sever the control cables.  What I see as more realistic would be a damaged control surface hanging in the breeze more or less, and being torn off later by aerodynamic forces such as flutter and other vibration.

Being able to bend things would be cool, but I bet it would be very tough to implement.  Nose over and your prop blades get curled.  Broken glass and instruments would add to the effect.  

I'm quite sure HTC is aware of all of this, it's just a matter of devoting the resources to model it.  I don't think that many people would appreciate an update that didn't add any planes, but was simply reworking things to look/work better.  I think that people sometimes overlook how complicated it is to implement "easy" things that are somewhat complicated in reality.

Keep up the good work, HTC.

Offline GRUNHERZ

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13413
New Damage request
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2001, 07:46:00 PM »
Fires from leaking fuel that gets blasted from MG/cannon fire. Right now you just go on flying with a leaking fuel tank, as you know its no real liability, but in RL people would go home after something like that because they knew it was an extreme risk of getting lit up and exploding.

Sorrow[S=A]

  • Guest
New Damage request
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2001, 09:20:00 PM »
Hmm, posted too quick on that  

I meant to add as well, the reason you see so little of this is the way the current damage is applied.

Currently the system is something like this:

(Projectile weightxVelocity on impact)+Explosive content
With an armor value determining whether or not it can penetrate X amount of value. Then each portion of the plane has x amount of hit points- if the damage is greater than it falls off if less than it's stuck. With AH damages are so high from just 1 or 2 20mm or .50 cal shells the whole works just falls off. In a BB gun fight you see things get stuck all the time instead of just blowing off.

BTW I am not sure but I don't think AH models penetration through the plane either. Thus a .50 cal actualy only affects what it hits and doesn't go through to the next section. B-17 is a good example- you can hammer the tail gun with .50 cal and kill him dead but the saddle guns won't be touched. From dead six the .50 should make leaky meat out of all 3 positions.

Offline AKDejaVu

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5049
      • http://www.dbstaines.com
New Damage request
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2001, 09:28:00 PM »
I don't really care about graphic representation as much as I care about variation.  Right now, if you lose your wingtip, your plane will handle in a very specific manner.  You can actually learn to fly the aircraft in that condition.

Damage, IMO, should be more unpredictable in effect and result.  Control surfaces sticking or flapping uncontrolled and such... simulating actuators sticking or cables breaking.  Stuff like that.

As for the original post... I think it would be good only for instruments effected by circuitry.  That is.. if you lose power what systems go out.  Oil pressure shouldn't... head pressure shouldn't... don't know how airspeed was figured back then, but I assume some kind of pito (sp?) tube was used in wich case electrical outage affects it and so on.

The main thing is... given the choice between a slow game with a realistic damage model and an acceptable speed game with an unrealistic damage model... I chose framerate.  Once the systems come up to speed we can work the hard stuff in

AKDejaVu

Offline INDN

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8
New Damage request
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2001, 12:01:00 AM »
Sorrow I know we all ready have stuck flaps and all I mean stuck ailerons where you cant get out of a turn or a stuck rudder thats to one side or the other not just failed neutral. Somethings you wont know about like say the flaps are damaged from gun fire and you lower them one comes full down and other to 10% s split flap condition and a suprise to the pilot. Only then does it show up as a damaged flap. Or a singal .50cal round hits a aileron in full deflection and the thing sticks that way not neutral but full or partial deflection. you will have to fight a very bad handling plane if you can fly it at all.

I am also for more growth but want more of the real feal.

Offline Jigster

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 107
      • http://www.33rd.org
New Damage request
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2001, 03:32:00 AM »
Depending on the particular instrument, most of the essiential flight gauges run off the vaccum system inconjunction with the pitot tube (that does the actual measuring)

Offline Midnight

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1809
      • http://www.brauncomustangs.org
New Damage request
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2001, 03:58:00 AM »
Haven't seen this yet...

After taking several hits in a wing or other surface, it's structural integrity should be significantly reduced.

I think it would help if you could look at your wing and determine if you just have a few minor holes or if the thing is ready to fall off. As it is now, you don't really know if the next 7.62mm will be the only thing needed to break it for good.

For that matter, I am not sure, but do damaged wings break easier in high G load turns? I.e... If you are normally able to pull a 7G turn, can you do the same after getting the wing all shot up, or will the wing now fall off at 3Gs due to damage?

------------------
Wing up, Get kills, Be happy!

Midnight CO


The 412th is actively seeking P-51 Mustang pilots. E-mail me for more information         davidlj@charter.net

Offline Wingnut_0

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 183
      • http://www.Luftjagerkorps.com
New Damage request
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2001, 04:21:00 AM »
It would be my hope that with the reworking of the Ground Vehicle damage model that it might be applicable to the Airplanes as well.

Let's see how well it works and exactly how it's done then talk HT and Pyro into doing it for the planes    


------------------
 

The quality of the box matters little.  Success depends upon the man who sits in it  -  Baron Manfred von Richthofen

[This message has been edited by Wingnut_0 (edited 05-12-2001).]

Offline StSanta

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2496
New Damage request
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2001, 07:38:00 AM »
I agree with Dejavu again. Something is amiss.



------------------
Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"

Offline 2Late4U

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 291
New Damage request
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2001, 09:14:00 AM »
I would love to see a more realistic damage model in severeal areas mentioned here.  I really like the idea of inoperable gauges.  I also do agree that there is a real need to have a more gradual damage model.  We certainly cant go NUTTZ® here, I feel the all or nothing damage model while workable, leaves much to be desired.  Damage might first effect drag/lift, then after much more damage a wing/tail falls off.  At a bare minimun I would like to see less full structural failures and more induced uncontrolability ((ie: damaged wing locks alieron in a certain position and/or the damage itself causes yaw/pitch/roll in a certail verctor)).

All in all AH has a great damage model...but as always...I WANT MORE!   <S> HiTech


   

Offline Vulcan

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9913
New Damage request
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2001, 07:22:00 PM »
I used to play a lot of EF2000 with a VR-Headset... nuthing more immersive than having a whole glass cockpit going on the blink (CRTs used to roll like they lost v-sync and stuff) or looking out THROUGH the holes in your wing   and things got really hard when the HUD failed - although if I remember correctly there were back up instruments on the side panels.