Author Topic: Capturing Fields: Opinions Wanted (Read 6099 times)

Shiva · « **Reply #120 on:** July 25, 2003, 10:44:51 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Grizzly
The suicide jabo thing isn't going to end. It's an option that will be used, whether as routine or desperation. I believe the only thing that can be done to slow it down is to impose a penalty. In real life the penalty was death... pretty affective. Hitech and others talked of a time fuse on the bombs which would not explode if the guy who dropped them got killed. Others talk of bomb perks.

How about bomb perks applied negatively? If you take off with ordnance, and auger without suffering loss-of-control damage within some arena-setting time limit after dropping ordnance that causes damage to a ground object, then you a) don't get any perks for that flight, and b) get fined perks based on the ordnance you took up -- larger bombs, bigger penalty, with an arena-setting multiplier to allow the penalty to be tuned. If you drop into negative perk points, you can't get ordnance.

Toad · « **Reply #121 on:** July 25, 2003, 10:47:48 AM »

I'd think the aim would be to make the game more fun.

I guess there's somebody who thinks being in a huge horde and fighting for the scraps during a steamroller base capture is fun... and guess what? They'd still be able to participate in those.

But there'd also be those smaller, more balanced engagements when the steamroller ground past and the flanking and rear area strikes began.

Try something different? OK!

Last time we made things more difficult. The "dweebery" got much worse. So let's indeed try something different. "More difficult" wouldn't be different.. it'd be the same, with the same results.

Besides, all these things you guys seem to want so badly are going to be the heart and soul of AH2:TOD, right?

So why worry about the boring old MA? Your dreams are about to be fulfilled!

SlapShot · « **Reply #122 on:** July 25, 2003, 10:51:42 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
I'd think the aim would be to make the game more fun.

I guess there's somebody who thinks being in a huge horde and fighting for the scraps during a steamroller base capture is fun... and guess what? They'd still be able to participate in those.

But there'd also be those smaller, more balanced engagements when the steamroller ground past and the flanking and rear area strikes began.

Try something different? OK!

Last time we made things more difficult. The "dweebery" got much worse. So let's indeed try something different. "More difficult" wouldn't be different.. it'd be the same, with the same results.

Besides, all these things you guys seem to want so badly are going to be the heart and soul of AH2:TOD, right?

So why worry about the boring old MA? Your dreams are about to be fulfilled!

Ok ... Sounds like a plan ... so how do we make it easier ? ... thats the next step.

muckmaw · « **Reply #123 on:** July 25, 2003, 11:04:52 AM »

Depending on how AHII goes down, depends on my participation in the MA in the future.

However, there will be times when a quick sortie will be the order of the day, to which the MA will always be suited.

Aside from that, this is an open, hypothetical discussion that is intereting to participate in. Though I'm sure HT is interested in his customers opinion, I don't think these discussions have much bearing on what he does with his game.

That said, I'm still having a great time in the MA. Whether it's squad night, or flying with a bunch of unknowns in a furball, I'm still loving this game.

Change it and try it.. more difficult, less difficult...whatever. Give it a shot. If it works, great, if not, go back and try the other way.

As far as other sims, I flew AW from AOL days, and like everyone else, just about every offline flight sim since Flight Simulator for the Commodore 64. (God' we've come a long way in 20 years, huh?)

muckmaw · « **Reply #124 on:** July 25, 2003, 11:06:12 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by SlapShot
Ok ... Sounds like a plan ... so how do we make it easier ? ... thats the next step.

Hmm..eliminate the town and make capture acheived by a successful landing of any type of AC on the runway?

beet1e · « **Reply #125 on:** July 25, 2003, 11:08:16 AM »

What I have started doing is filming whenever I see a horde about to suicide/steamroll a field or CV. That way I can play it back and the film viewer lists their IDs. I can then check their scores. Quite a number of those doofuses are rank dweebs judging from their scores and stats. They probably don't have two perk points to rub together. Unfortunately, the scores and stats pages don't show how many perk points a player has. Now, assuming that they fly only dweeb missions, and have no interest in ACM, they're not going to have many PP. So why don't we introduce some nominal perk costs for some planes, for the same reason that the Chog was perked, which was that it was completely unbalancing the arena just as all this suicide/horde/steamroller/pork-n-auger/fuel-porkage is unbalancing the arena right now? A nominal 4pp for a P51 or TYPH would not seem unreasonable. This might reduce to 2pp or 1pp if the side became outnumbered, or rise to 6pp or 8pp if the side became the strongest numerically. By implementing this change, we might see TWO benefits: [list=1]

The suicide fuel porkery etc. would be reduced because the dweebs that do it would have to earn PP to fly their P51 pork-n-auger sorties, and...
the sliding scale of perk values would help to balance the numbers of certain planes so that we couldn't have a horde of P51 P&A guys beating up a field and making it impossible to take off - or at least it would get very expensive for them to fly those dweeb P&A sorties at 8pp a throw.

Furious · « **Reply #126 on:** July 25, 2003, 11:16:37 AM »

Shiva,

If you perk ordinance, I would think you would want to do it up front. That way the jabo pilot is always thing about it.

Toad · « **Reply #127 on:** July 25, 2003, 11:20:48 AM »

Man.. this is amazing!

I was thinking I just saw Beet1e basically buy into Laz' "perk the bombs" idea, albeit in a slightly different manner in an attempt to disquise Beet's submisson to Laz' wisdom. Didn't Beet just slam Laz about that idea not long ago?

I am truly smiling so hard my face is cracking!

Or is it just one too many Boulevards?

beet1e · « **Reply #128 on:** July 25, 2003, 12:06:25 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mr. Toad
Man.. this is amazing!

I was thinking I just saw Beet1e basically buy into Laz' "perk the bombs" idea, albeit in a slightly different manner in an attempt to disquise Beet's submisson to Laz' wisdom. Didn't Beet just slam Laz about that idea not long ago?

I am truly smiling so hard my face is cracking!

Or is it just one too many Boulevards?

LOLOLOL! Hehe, I said what I said, and I was very careful in what I said.

I said perk certain planes - not the ammo and/or ord that they carry. Lazs has a long standing grievance against buffs/fluffs - which is why I pointed out (further up) that I'm against the lives of buffers being made even harder by perking bombs. Elsewhere on the board, I said that we might want to consider small perkage costs for planes like P51/Spit ix/LA7/Yak-9U - if only because they have become overused and have taken over the arena in the same way (I am told) that the Chog dominated the arena before it was perked. Now, in the case of the P51, we have overlap. It is one of the "big three" because of its speed and survivability. But it is also much more formidable as a jabo than the LA7 or Spit-ix. My nominal perkage suggestion is intended to target certain overused planes, some of which just happen to be instrumental in suicide P&A campaigns. I would, for example, be quite opposed to perking the F6F and/or its bombs. There. Hope that clears it up, Mr. Toad. Get some chapstick for yer gob, as all that grinning will cause your lips to split in that midwestern sun.

But Mr. Toad has a point, and indeed I was thinking that very thing when I wrote the post before this one.

Rude · « **Reply #129 on:** July 25, 2003, 12:06:33 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by beet1e
What I have started doing is filming whenever I see a horde about to suicide/steamroll a field or CV. That way I can play it back and the film viewer lists their IDs. I can then check their scores. Quite a number of those doofuses are rank dweebs judging from their scores and stats. They probably don't have two perk points to rub together. Unfortunately, the scores and stats pages don't show how many perk points a player has. Now, assuming that they fly only dweeb missions, and have no interest in ACM, they're not going to have many PP. So why don't we introduce some nominal perk costs for some planes, for the same reason that the Chog was perked, which was that it was completely unbalancing the arena just as all this suicide/horde/steamroller/pork-n-auger/fuel-porkage is unbalancing the arena right now? A nominal 4pp for a P51 or TYPH would not seem unreasonable. This might reduce to 2pp or 1pp if the side became outnumbered, or rise to 6pp or 8pp if the side became the strongest numerically. By implementing this change, we might see TWO benefits: [list=1]
The suicide fuel porkery etc. would be reduced because the dweebs that do it would have to earn PP to fly their P51 pork-n-auger sorties, and...
the sliding scale of perk values would help to balance the numbers of certain planes so that we couldn't have a horde of P51 P&A guys beating up a field and making it impossible to take off - or at least it would get very expensive for them to fly those dweeb P&A sorties at 8pp a throw.

I've always advocated perkin everything....the current perk system promotes saving rather than spending perks.

Nice work Beetle....ya see, you and I can get along as long as you agree with what I believe is right:)

Apache · « **Reply #130 on:** July 25, 2003, 12:18:20 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by beet1e
LOLOLOL! Hehe, I said what I said, and I was very careful in what I said. I said perk certain planes - not the ammo and/or ord that they carry. Lazs has a long standing grievance against buffs/fluffs - which is why I pointed out (further up) that I'm against the lives of buffers being made even harder by perking bombs. Elsewhere on the board, I said that we might want to consider small perkage costs for planes like P51/Spit ix/LA7/Yak-9U - if only because they have become overused and have taken over the arena in the same way (I am told) that the Chog dominated the arena before it was perked. Now, in the case of the P51, we have overlap. It is one of the "big three" because of its speed and survivability. But it is also much more formidable as a jabo than the LA7 or Spit-ix. My nominal perkage suggestion is intended to target certain overused planes, some of which just happen to be instrumental in suicide P&A campaigns. I would, for example, be quite opposed to perking the F6F and/or its bombs. There. Hope that clears it up, Mr. Toad. Get some chapstick for yer gob, as all that grinning will cause your lips to split in that midwestern sun.

But Mr. Toad has a point, and indeed I was thinking that very thing when I wrote the post before this one.

lol, you are truly daft. The Yak9U is over used?

beet1e · « **Reply #131 on:** July 25, 2003, 12:27:21 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Apache
lol, you are truly daft. The Yak9U is over used?

Oh, well that wasn't very polite.

I think of the overused planes as the big THREE (P51/LA7/Spit ix). However, Kweassa has spoken of the big FOUR. I wasn't sure which one the fourth one was, but I see a lot of Yaks and assumed it was the 9U - isn't that the über Yak? I wouldn't know. I never fly from the overused list.

SlapShot · « **Reply #132 on:** July 25, 2003, 12:52:02 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by beet1e
Oh, well that wasn't very polite.

I think of the overused planes as the big THREE (P51/LA7/Spit ix). However, Kweassa has spoken of the big FOUR. I wasn't sure which one the fourth one was, but I see a lot of Yaks and assumed it was the 9U - isn't that the über Yak? I wouldn't know. I never fly from the overused list.

Does the N1K ring a bell ?!?!?

SlapShot · « **Reply #133 on:** July 25, 2003, 12:53:36 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Apache
lol, you are truly daft. The Yak9U is over used?

Apache = YAK-9U DWEEB ...

Grizzly · « **Reply #134 on:** July 25, 2003, 12:55:11 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SlapShot

Muck has flown other sims .. I haven't, and I am just trying to understand your point of view, which I have no experience of.

Maybe I can help you here.

I flew AirWarrior for many years. I don't suggest it was better than Aces High, and I wouldn't want to go back. But my memories of it I wouldn't trade away. Maybe there is something of value in it that can be used by us now.

The company that provided AW supplied the planes and arena but let the players set the game. Their phylosophy was that the biggest advantage of a massive online sim was that it allowed the players to set their own goals and make their own rules. The game became a living entity, changing with the will of its players, limited only by the imagination of human beings.

The result was a great variety of game play. The arenas were set up so that they had different areas to play in along the country borders, where players could play the type of game they liked without interfering with each other.

An example of a game: The HammerHeads back then had a arch enemy squad called the Black Dragons. We would meet in the NW corner of the arena each night and fight each other tooth and nail. Our objective was to damage the other's bases and carriers and push them back to their rear base. We could kill their bases and make them unusable for a half hour, but not capture them. We had glorious fun and became great friends between our two squads. Many other squads in other parts of the arena were doing the same. And in the center, where the default spawn bases were, new or unafilliated players would play until they fanned out and joined the various squads (the massive never ending furball area).

But still we needed variety. At the time AirWarrior was hosting a minimum of 2000 players each night, maybe double that on prime nights. With a limit of 250 players per arena, there were a lot of arenas to choose from. Each had it's own character, so one could bounce around until you found something you liked. But they also provided two theaters, Pacific and Europe. The theaters provided the types of planes that belonged there, so if you get tired of being B&Zed by 190s, you could go munch on Zekes in a Pac arena. There was great variety.

Of course we still had our porkers, milk runners, alt monkeys, gangers, etc. But the community basically humiliated them to keep their numbers at a minimum. One of the greatest differences I've seen between AW and AH is that many of the activities abhored and ridiculed in AW are accepted and respected in AH.

To each his own.