Why citabria is a loser

[Zigrat]

Please look at the following film. This is the type of fight that makes me want to quit acs high. it is pilots like this that make me want to vomit. There are others of you out there who fly like this. You know who you are.
 http://www.iit.edu/~buonmic/yak.ahf
and then at the end he says "sucks to be a loser"

i think that this shows who the loser truly is.

PLEASE don't go off on how "fly like you want. Its my 30$" Thats BS. What fun do you get out of flying like this? Please note I was engaged by a higher bandit, and i had a top speed higher than said bandit, with friendly ack nearby. But that's just not my style.

anyways, a big ol <finger> for my bud citabria

[AKDejaVu]

Because he got in trouble and dove for the ack?  You make it sound as if you HAD to follow.

Sorry Zigrat.. but this is not cool.

I find more wrong with you posting this here in this whining manner than I do with the incident.

This incessant whining is more of a problem than ack-hugging will ever be.

AKDejaVu

[hblair]

I watched the film. Did the ack get your engine? Couldn't see the tracers on the film.

How did citabria pis you off? Flying style? Or did he say something that didn't show in the buffer? I didn't see anything in the buffer other than what you said.

No offense zig, but it looked like he may have just chosen the right time to get out of dodge. He might have had a lot of fuel, who knows? I screw up and tangle with yaks often in my G10. The key words being "screw up". The yak is very dangerous in a scissors vs. most planes in this game.

[Zigrat]

<edit>
To answer: it was flying style, not anything he said that pissed me off.
 And yes a 88mm shell pinged my engine from the factory neary.
<edit>

No Hblair, he didnt say anything to me until i said something.

The whole point is, ack should NOT be used as a defensive weapon once you are on your way and on the offensive!

Running to ack from a 4v1 situation? SURE that sounds fair, certainly more fair than a 4v1!

Hugging ack while trying to grab alt over a capped field? SURE that is more fair then letting them vulch you incessantly without protection.

Engaging in a 1on1 with an initial advantage, then running once you "lost" the fight? Cmon!

I also differentiate this from someone making 1 BnZ pass on a bandit, then egressing. I don't really count that as the fight being engaged, you aren't for lack of a better word "engrossed" in it. But once you have a 3 minute fight with a guy you want it to have a conclusion! If citabria had killed me, it would have been a good clean kill, and I would have <S> him. In fact, my next sortie up torque killed me in a similar situation. And i told him good kill. Because it was.

[This message has been edited by Zigrat (edited 09-16-2000).]

[AKSeaWulfe]

<passes Ziggy 4 ludes and a 12 pack of beer>

Relax buddy! :-)
-SW

[AKDejaVu]

Please Zig.. publish a list of rules so the rest of the arena knows how to fly when you are on.  That's what you want isn't it?

Or do you want us to see this film and get all upset about it?  Didn't happen with me.  Won't happen with alot of people... might happen with some.  Who cares?

I simply cannot believe you come to this bbs with that film to justify calling Cit a loser.  That is sad man.. really sad.

AKDejaVu

[Suave1]

I watched the film and here is what I think. Citabria definately shouldn't have gotten the kill, she didn't land any strikes on you . But you really killed yourself, you should be mad at yourself not cit for that, I wouldn't have done that . And why did you bail out anyway ? If citabria would not have run you surely would've shot her down . She made the right decision, which is what a real life fighter pilot would've done . As for flying syle, some people would rather get an easy kill than die in a good fight . You can't make everyone fly the way you think they should, but you can tell them and everyone else what you think of them .  

[Dago]

I am sorry, but I dont have a problem with someone running for the ack.  Using whatever tools the game has available to avoid dieing isnt a big deal to me.  Cheating the game bothers me more, stuff like Alt-F4 to avoid dieing, etc.  But diving for the ack? Nope.
I prefer to see it as more an acknowledgement of surrender. If someone allows themselves to be drug into ack and killed, well then they have not followed a good strategy.

just my thoughts,
Dago

[easymo]

Zig have you tried a P47 lately. I thought he did a heck of a job considering. Use to be one of my favorites. I gave them up all togeather

[Renfield]

I watched the fight and it was a really cool fight. From the scissors to the rolling vertical moves I have to say well fought on both sides.

Only fault I see is Zigrat's for following Citabria into the factory AAA. I don't see the big deal about him taking to the AAA especially after Zig landed shells in the rolling vertical maneuver.

A low 47 is a sitting duck. I know this all too well.   And running to the AAA was wise as it meant he was more likely to survive. Worse case, he ditches at the installation.

Again, the mistake was made by getting too close to the enemy flak battery. Sometimes you just need to know when to let a plane go. This is one I need to follow more myself.

I say good fight to both pilots.

[Hangtime]

A little story.   Had a con on radar headin toward the field I lifted off from; so I headed on back to the field to see what it wuz. T'was a pony; commin in over a2 at 15k. I was at 20k; with cloudeck between us.

I snapped on the dar; and minmised the scale on the dispay; and stayed above the clouds. On the dar; the contact reverses course while obscured by the clouds so's I swing around behind him using the dar and wait for him to pop up...

There he is; A p51; D2 in front and below; perfect setup, popping thu the clouddeck below at the top of his zoom... no doubt lookin to pop up behind me.    WHAM WHAM WHAM.. he's Toast, mebbe 5 seconds after he came thru the cloud.

The pony driver was shocked, to say the least...

Jonseses>> Hangtime; how'd you see me thru cloud??
Hangtime>> Radar.
Joneses>> Well; that was cheap.
Hangtime>> Thanks.  

Oh well.. SA is part of flyin.. and lack of it get you dying. Stayin alive often has to do with how well you maintain your SA, and how aware of and how much you use The Tools at your disposal. Like friendly ack installations; friendly planes; terrain, clouds, radar, RW and the text buffer.

If you follow a guy into his countrymates guns or his countrys ground defenses, well; guess what?  This is a SA fopah... and you will likely die.
 
If you lurk over an enemy field below cloud cover hopin to bounce some shmo takin off.. guess what? This ia also a SA fopah...

 

Hang

[CptTrips]

Yes.  Citabria is a loser.

But not for the reason you have presented.    


He flew smart.  He used every means at his disposal to destroy the enemy at the least possible risk to himself and his aircraft.  Exactly what his duty is.  Finally, he used the ultimate weapon: the enemies own blinding greed agianst himself.  

Just as he's gotta realize when its time to duck into some "cover"     and you gotta realize when its time not to follow.

If you have a possible chance to get a positional advantage for a guns solution great.  Failing that if you can get the enemy to get greedy and do something stupid that gets himself kilt then all the better.

In the end he flew off to look for another fight, leaving you to smoldered in a pile of wreckage.

There are only two types of pilots up there: Bastards and Suckers.

Take your choice on which you want to be.

The Bastards get to fly home and have drinks at the O'club and that night sneak over to tickle your widow.

The suckers get to sleep with the worms and grumble for eternity.    


Regards,
Wab




[This message has been edited by AKWabbit (edited 09-17-2000).]

[Torque]

Y so squeakY ZIGGY!!!!!!!!!!!!

[-towd_]

zig  the point  is they aint listening man

[Citabria]

good film I enjoyed it
thx zigrat.

was observing the mistakes I made in B&Zing the yak.

the P-47 does not have the ability to turn or maneuver with yaks thus I should have conserved more E by not making any horizontal tracking shots. the only cards I held were an altitude advantage and the ability to dive away after the E clock ran out.

I was keeping track of where that factory was the entire time as it was the only way to exit the fight if i was unable to land a crippling shot on the little fighter.

and suave stop calling me she you dork.
the callsign is from the plane I learned aerobatics on... a Citabria 7GCAA (Airbatic spelled backwards)
perhaps I will change my handle for kicks so I can be just another newbie on the prowl and you wont know who shot you down