Ki-61 vs Spit IX

[Mathman]

Originally posted by Kekule
^^

The Macho Man shows up, one for every thread.  Sounds like you don't look for much of a challenge (Vals and Kates? lol), but at least you don't fly a spit.

Kekule
WB: 18th Sentai

Oh yeah, I only vulch, hunt goons, and kill chutes along with the rice paper planes.

[gofaster]

I've found that the clown-tailed Ki will cut a herd quite nicely.  Maybe its the paint job or the perceived "easy kill" of the plane, but I've succeeded in luring a few pilots away from the safety of their herd by doing a high-speed pass through the group and extending out to see how many follow me, then hit WEP and do a gentle climb to get some workable altitude.  I think the red tail does something to the Spit pilots, like sending them into a berzerker rage or something, because it seems that they hardly ever refuse a meal of Ki-tail.

Of course, you have to do fast work on getting your kill, because pretty soon the rest of the herd will be coming up on you, responding to the bleeting cries of your prey.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Kekule




ack-ack, I prefer to start my break turns to the right (in Ki-61), assuming I have enough E.

Kekule
WB: 18th Sentai

Hopefully with the revised flight model in AH2, it will be more difficult for the Ki-61 to make right turns at high speed, just like it was in RL.


Ack-Ack

[Steve]

Welcome to AH, Kekule!!

About the only thing I know about the Tony is that it seems extremely fragile.  I am personally convinced that it takes more .50 rounds to knock down a Zeke than a Tony.  Along that line, the Tony's tail seems particularly vulnerable.  I'm pretty conservative w/ my ammo, so fighting Tony's a good deal for me.  One lil poke at the tail usually results in the Tony tail and the rest of the plane falling in seperate pieces.

GL in the skies of AH.

[Kekule]

How about mid-range speeds ack-ack.  At higher speeds there shouldn't be a need to break-turn.
 
The 61-Ib in WBs locks up at high speeds, makes for a nice lawn-dart.  

Kekule
WB: 18th Sentai

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Kekule
How about mid-range speeds ack-ack.  At higher speeds there shouldn't be a need to break-turn.
 
The 61-Ib in WBs locks up at high speeds, makes for a nice lawn-dart.  

Kekule
WB: 18th Sentai

From what I've read, at mid-ranges it was quite maneuverable.  So much so that at first, the US pilots thought it was a bf109 with Japanese markings and even some US pilot swore it was a C.202.

Ack-Ack

[Soda]

The largest advantage of the Ki-61 is people don't face them often and don't know what to do with them.  They immediately associate "uncommon" with easy kill, which the Ki-61 isn't always.  I think the Spit IX pretty much dominates in every performance category though, maybe not rolling quite as well at mid-high speeds.  Most Spit drivers though always try and pull lead like crazy and can be forced into terrible overshoots with the Ki.  Issue is though, hispanos... the Spit has them and can tear a Ki to piece is seconds.  That said, if the Spit falls infront of the Ki at short range, the Ki can tear up the Spit easily too.

the Ki isn't a beginners plane but it isn't a total dog either.  Flown with a little patience and some altitude it can knock down anything out there, the problem is avoiding all the higher powered planes that can pin down a Ki and then simply out-perform it.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Soda


the Ki isn't a beginners plane but it isn't a total dog either.  Flown with a little patience and some altitude it can knock down anything out there, the problem is avoiding all the higher powered planes that can pin down a Ki and then simply out-perform it.

I can see why US pilots thought the Ki-61 was either a bf109 or a C.202 when they first enountered them.  At least to me, the Tony does perform very similiar to the bf109F and the C.202.  


Ack-Ack

[Soda]

Agreed Ack-Ack... it does feel the same in many ways.  People also tend to throw it into the category of the C205 (which is clearly a better performance aircraft) which isn't fair.  The Ki can be dangerous though, it has twin cowl 20mm and a 12.7mm in each wing, that's plenty of firepower if not for the crummy ballistics.  People get so used to hispanos/.50's that they forget how to shoot anything else.  Guys coming over from other LW, VVS or IJ planes though know how to fire cruddy guns and land hits can do serious damage.

Big thing against the Ki though is to fight uphill against it.  It so terrible in acceleration and climb rate that fighting uphill will kill it.  A Spit IX is so good uphill like that it would own a Ki.

I flew a Ki one sortie last tour, picked up a kill on a Yak9U, La7 and 190D9... none of them had respect for me and didn't simply out-speed/out-climb me... they hung around way too long until I could land a couple of hits on them.  Got lucky, knocked out an engine on one, picked off the other in a crossing shot, then dropped in and used dive speed to catch an La7 for an auger.  The Ki isn't great, it isn't even good, but it can be dangerous.

[Halo]

Very informative thread.  From now on, no excuse for getting shot down in a Ki-61 (I wish).

[gofaster]

Originally posted by Kekule
How about mid-range speeds ack-ack.  At higher speeds there shouldn't be a need to break-turn.
 
The 61-Ib in WBs locks up at high speeds, makes for a nice lawn-dart.  

Kekule
WB: 18th Sentai

I flew the Ki-61 for a bit last night.  I got it up to around 400-425 ias and suffered some compression, but not nearly as much as in a P-38 or P-51B or 109G10.  I was able to maintain good control at that speed.

I did notice that the Ki-61's climb rate dropped way off around 20k or so, but in the MA if you're at 20k then you're either at co-alt or above most of the other planes you'll be fighting.

The nose-mounted cannons came in handy since convergence wasn't an issue.  I had just as much success killing a P-38 at less than d100 as I did a Me-110 with a snapshot at d400 (cockpit shot).

If you go straight down in the Ki-61, you should chop throttle and remember to pull out before you get going too fast (same as with a P51B, P38, or 109G6 and G10).

At mid-range speeds, the Ki-61 is surprisingly maneuverable and seemed to be able to outturn F6Fs and P-38s at 200 to 300 ias.  The only time I let my airspeed drop below 200 was when I was landing.

In all, I had a wonderful time in the Ki-61 last night and got 7 kills in 2 flights with only 1 death (inadvertantly HO merge with an LA-7 because a connection was acting up).  The first 3 were on a Lancaster formation at 15k alt, then after getting a fresh plane (pilot wound in last one) I chased down a P-38, turn-fought a F6F, turn-fought a 110, and chased down a 190D at low alt. I was setting up a turn on the LA-7 when the warp occurred and I lost my tail to a no-ping HO.

[Widewing]

My experience with the Ki-61 is that it is a very dangerous fighter as long as you manage your energy carefully.

Accleration can be described as leisurely at best, so care must be exercised not to waste energy by hard turning in close proximity to enemy hordes.

Climb is adequate in WEP, but very much sub-par in military power.

Turn rate is excellent until you grind down your speed, where it falls off to barely above average. Very simlar to the P-40E in that regard, although the Ki-61 has somewhat better stall behavior than the Curtiss.

I fly the Ki-61 a bit just about every other tour. Combined results for the last 3 tours that I did fly it are 80/5, with one lost to a collision, another lost to an auger, one very beat-up Ki-61 lost to Ack-Ack's P-38 (even though I was maneuvering with a pilot wound, I'm still amazed that he pulled off that shot! WTG Ack-Ack!) and two others I have no record of (I usually record sorties or take note of who, what and how I lose any aircraft).

Like any of the slower fighters, the Ki-61 requires good SA and judgement to survive in an MA full of late-war speed demons. Nonetheless, as Apache aptly pointed out some time ago, the Ki-61 is a true "point and click killer" due to the remarkable lethality of its guns.

As the stats indicate, the Ki-61 generates better than a 1/1 KD in the MA, with 1.08/1 in tour 42, and 1.35/1 in tour 37. Those are very respectable numbers considering the level of performance of the Tony and that of most of the opposition.

My regards,

Widewing

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Widewing
(I usually record sorties or take note of who, what and how I lose any aircraft).

Does that mean you have something like the following recorded somewhere:

F4U-4 (insert kill list), landed, killed by a 75mm HE round from 3km by Karnak while braking.

Followed by:

TBM-3, killed one Panzer IV H (Karnak) with a 2,000lb bomb, landed?

[cpxxx]

I flew the K161 lately and had some success. In one instance I took off and flew towards a typical tailchase with a spit towing three or four of my countrymen. I cruised up, joined in and caught the spit with a neat deflection shot, turned around headed back to base catching another spit on the way back and landed with two kills in a five minute sortie. After a couple of more sorties like that I realised I was onto something.  You do need a bit of altitude to make it pay but it works very well. But I don't think it's one for the furballers.  I only used when the MA is fairly quiet not on a busy Saturday night.  

I think you really need to use it when you have the advantage of height and surprise and don't stick around to battle it out as it's too delicate like most Japanese aircraft.

[gofaster]

cpxxx is onto something, alright.  

You will need a bit of height in order to hang with the late-war rides in the MA, so you'll want to take the Ki-61 up to around 10k or 15k altitude or more before you look to engage any enemy.  The Ki-61 likes to run downhill, so only engage a higher enemy if you're packing 300ias or more and can get a shot before your airspeed drops below 200ias.

I use the Ki-61 alot during the peak usage hours, and it can really stuff an enemy's advance, even if you're outnumbered, but you should (a) know how you're going to get out of the fight (i.e. run away!) and (b) stay within range of friendlies.  If you're going to run away, then you should stay above 10k so you'll have enough slope to dive away.

Last night my Ki-61 was able to chase down an F4U Corsair, force it to go evasive, then outturn it and knock off its tail.  Then I chased a Mustang around in a high-speed pursuit, followed it through its vertical maneuvers, and popped it when it pulled up into a high climbing turn.  I have to give the 'stang driver credit - if he had kept his nose down, he could've pulled away from me but he wanted to mix it up a bit and that's always admirable.

Next came a 190D from above me.  I put my nose down to get some maneuvering speed, then barrell-rolled and forced the FW to overshoot.  I followed the FW up into its turn as it looped around over the top and popped it at the apex of its turn.

I chased an LA-7 around on the deck and got within d500 before he got smart and used a combination of turns and throttle to outdistance me.

Finally I was bounced by a Spitfire Mk V as I returned to base.  The Spit V played to its strength - turning - but at the cost of losing its airspeed.  I went around with it for a turn in lag pursuit but realized I couldn't get inside of it, so I went nose-down and got some separation, acting as the drag for my countryman who jumped on the Spit's tail.  When the Spit went evasive with its turns again, I came back around and peppered it with machine gun rounds (I was down to 58 cannon rounds and didn't want to risk wasting them on a too-close snap-shot), sending it into the sea.  I was a bit surprised that I could shoot down a Spit with just two machine guns.  Something to keep in mind!