Author Topic: Naval Aviator Bush Action Figure (Read 2962 times)

rpm · « **Reply #60 on:** August 09, 2003, 11:37:53 PM »

Sorry if I don't spend my entire Saturday on the BBS (I have a life). Not showing up for a scheduled UA is considered refusal. Try it at work.

Toad · « **Reply #61 on:** August 10, 2003, 12:21:54 AM »

Hey, all I'm asking is for you to show a source that proves he did that. You know, like his commander taking action against him for doing that.

Should be easy for you.

rpm · « **Reply #62 on:** August 10, 2003, 01:14:37 AM »

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Originally posted by Toad
Hey, all I'm asking is for you to show a source that proves he did that. You know, like his commander taking action against him for doing that.

Should be easy for you.

You mean like this?

Nash · « **Reply #63 on:** August 10, 2003, 03:19:10 AM »

... this is almost too painful to watch.

Toad · « **Reply #64 on:** August 10, 2003, 08:15:19 AM »

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In August Bush missed his annual flight physical and was grounded. (Some have speculated that he was worried about failing a drug test--the Pentagon had instituted random screening in April.)

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speculation

1. Contemplation or consideration of a subject; meditation.

2. A conclusion, opinion, or theory reached by conjecture.

3. Reasoning based on inconclusive evidence; conjecture or supposition.

Obviously, when it comes to Just the Facts, Jack........ you jacks don't have Jack.

It is only somewhat painful to watch someone pretend that conjecture is fact.

However, if you're now saying you accept conjecture as fact, this new standard will make for some interesting discussions.

So, can you tell me exactly why Major Bath didn't take his flight physical? After all, the record is right there in front of you. What was his reason?

Nash · « **Reply #65 on:** August 10, 2003, 09:49:22 AM »

What does Bath have to do with anything?

rpm · « **Reply #66 on:** August 10, 2003, 10:06:26 AM »

If you are looking for a sworn statement that says "I, George W. Bush, refused to take this drug test because I know I am a cokehead and will get busted." it does not exist. If you want a sworn statement "I George w. Bush never did cocaine." that does not exist either. In the military (in case you didn't know, did you ever serve?) refusal to take a drug test is the same as failing a drug test.

Did he refuse to to take the test? Yes, and there is the document that shows his disciplinary action taken by his CO. He disobeyed a direct order to take the test. He admitted that he used drugs in 1974 and prior to that time. Are you saying he was lying when he admitted to the drug use?

It is a fact that he didn't take the test, was disciplined for it and later discharged because of it. Just because he's Republican does not mean he didn't do it...Pull your head out of the sand. You just keep clicking your heels together and saying "There's no Prez like Bush, There's no Prez like Bush".

Toad · « **Reply #67 on:** August 10, 2003, 10:44:56 AM »

Bath and Bush have the same "boilerplate" paragraph on that document.

So, tell me why Bath didn't take the test. After all, you use that to supposedly show the "proof" that Bush was "worried about failing a drug test".

So, what does it then prove about Bath? I mean, you look at that and say "see, Bush didn't want to take a drug test, and here's the proof". Look at it and tell me what it proves about Bath.

*****

No, it's a FACT that he didn't take his PHYSICAL. He didn't disobey a direct order to take a drug test.

Cripes, did YOU ever serve as a rated officer? I'd be afraid to guess how many guys missed their flight physical that year, Active, Reserve or Guard. Usually, it's no big deal, you just reschedule. Guys in my squadron missed their physical month for a lot of reasons. It rarely got as far as disciplinary action though. Here in one Guard squadron, you have TWO guys getting disciplinary action for it.

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It is a fact that he didn't take the test, was disciplined for it and later discharged because of it.

Typical of the BS in this entire thread. He didn't take the test. TRUE.

He was disciplined for it. TRUE; disciplinary action consisted of REMOVING HIM FROM FLIGHT STATUS. Same thing would happen if you failed to get your annual checkride within the specified time. It's not an Article 15 or even anything remotely like that. YOu don't take your checkride, you don't get to fly. You don't get your altitude chamber ride/recert, you don't get to fly. You don't take your physical, you don't get to fly. This isn't a Court Martial; it's procedure. Did you know if you didn't get your required number of landing in a certain period (currency), you can't fly unless with an instructor in the other seat? Is that "disciplinary action"?

Lastly, "later discharged because of it". You follow, TRUE, TRUE with blatantly false. He was discharged.. an HONORABLE DISCHARGE which he would not have gotten if he was discharged due to disciplinary action... because he REQUESTED discharge.

Yeah, I served. NOV '73 to AUG '80, RC-135 pilot. What do you know about being a military pilot and physicals, checkrides, currency, etc?

As far as Bush, I voted for him because my other choice was Gore. It's looking like I won't be voting for him again, especially if the Dems run Clark.

But libel irritates me, so I'm in this thread.

Nash · « **Reply #68 on:** August 10, 2003, 11:02:25 AM »

hmm... nah... been through all this exact same stuff with you before. I shoulda stuck with this -------->

all yours rpm.

Toad · « **Reply #69 on:** August 10, 2003, 11:07:36 AM »

Not suprised you don't want to speculate about Bath.

Good move. When you find yourself in an indefensible position, retreat.

rpm · « **Reply #70 on:** August 10, 2003, 11:12:17 AM »

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tell me what it proves about Bath.

He may have been a drug user as well. But he is not POTUS, either.

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it's a FACT that he didn't take his PHYSICAL. He didn't disobey a direct order to take a drug test.

The drug test was a newly added feature to the physical that year.

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Typical of the BS in this entire thread. He didn't take the test. TRUE.

Yep, I'm with ya there.

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He was disciplined for it. TRUE

2 for 2 so far.

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Lastly, "later discharged because of it". You follow, TRUE, TRUE with blatantly false. He was discharged.. an HONORABLE DISCHARGE which he would not have gotten if he was discharged due to disciplinary action

He was sent to the disciplinary unit in Denver and seperated from service. The discharge was Honorable. You can still receive an Honorable Discharge for disciplinary seperation. Ever hear of a plea bargain? That's 3 for 3. What are we arguing about?

Nash · « **Reply #71 on:** August 10, 2003, 11:21:54 AM »

Oh is that how you see it? Suit yourself.

"Hey, all I'm asking is for you to show a source that proves he did that. You know, like his commander taking action against him for doing that." - Toad

Well lookie here... a document showing just that. Now as much as I'm sure you want to hear all about this other character Bath's inclusion on that document and how this doesn't somehow exhonorate Bush from... oh... everything... I think I'll take a pass.

Nash · « **Reply #72 on:** August 10, 2003, 11:24:16 AM »

Mmph...

Toad · « **Reply #73 on:** August 10, 2003, 11:27:31 AM »

Well, using your crystal ball and given the exact same information from the document, you should be able to tell me exactly why Bath didn't take the physical. Go for it.

Missing a scheduled physical is in no way disobeying a "direct order to take a drug test." No JAG in the US military would touch that statement. Yet you try to pass it off as gospel.

The "discipline" you try to blow up into some big thing is merely a standard procedure with no adverse effect on your record. Lots of guys missed a physical. Miss your checkride, you're off flight status. It's a real reach to call this "discipline". It's really just an administrative procedure. Had he taken the physical at any later date and passed he'd have been immediately restored to flight status without prejudice.

DISCHARGES Office of the Staff Judge Advocate, Luke AFB, AZ, (623) 856-6901

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Honorable Discharge.

This is the highest form of discharge. This type of discharge is separation from the Air Force with honor. An honorable discharge means the person has served the Air Force well by meeting or exceeding the required standards of duty performance and personal conduct. The honorable discharge reflects to the world that the member has satisfactorily completed a commitment to military service. All veterans benefits are given to an eligible person with an honorable discharge.

"Plea Bargains" get this:

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Under Honorable Conditions (General) Discharge. This is separation from the Air Force with honor, but to a lesser degree than the honorable discharge. This discharge is given when normally faithful service is marred by negative aspects of a person’s duty performance or personal conduct. Most veterans benefits are given to an eligible person with an under honorable conditions (general) discharge.

Game Over.

Eagler · « **Reply #74 on:** August 10, 2003, 11:39:11 AM »

who cares what happened 30+ years ago?

the man has been clean for how long since?

can you say that about our last POS POTUS & his "lets change the CURRENT drug screen checks so I can choose the ppl I like" admin?
can you say that about yourself?

bet most of you throwing stones can't ... carry on.