Grave doubts about the success of AH2 TOD

[BUG_EAF322]

The combat theater is just a mini MA

Ill wait and just see as long as i can fly the P38 it wil be allright.


The only thing permanent is change.

[culero]

Originally posted by Zanth
Only flight sim I played where you had hundreds of people in multiple arenas was Air Warrior.  There has got to be a lesson in there somewhere.

culero

[Widewing]

Originally posted by beet1e
. That, plus evenly matched planesets in missions, ie not F6F v Yak-9U or some other such mismatch.

Ah Beet1e, my experience is that for their own good, Yak-9Us should avoid Hellcats rather than be so badly overmatched....

My regards,

Widewing

[Steve]

Beet1e... other than the extreme where there are only one or two bases available, it's better to fly against greater numbers... more targets!!!.


Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

[beet1e]

It's the steamrollering I don't like. Even furballers like Messrs Toad and Lazs don't like the steamroller. Because the outcome does not depend on skill, just numbers.

Steve - that's easy to say when you fly the P51D most of the time. I don't want to fly the Big Three because everyone else is doing it! Actually it's becoming like the Big Five: P51/Spit ix/LA7/N1K/Yak9U. You will never see me in any of those planes.

Of course, if the strat guys go to AH2-TOD, then the only people in AH2-Classic apart from the furballers will be the steamrollers. The furballers might not like that.

[Joc]

BIG mistake not catering for squads in TOD.

[SLO]

Originally posted by Batz
AH2 is not AH2: ToD (mission theater).

No need to beat this horse again if you are upset with the imbalance make sure you move to the side with the lower numbers.

tried that batz.....

was Knights and had fun....but they where FIXATED on Bishops.

went Crooks......too many 'INDIVIDUALS' not enough team players.....

went Bishops....got a big welcome and had the pleasure of joining an excellent goup of gents.....so I stayed

numbers had nothing to do with it.....

[Batz]

if you are upset with the imbalance make sure you move to the side with the lower numbers.

if you arent upset then who cares.

BIG mistake not catering for squads in TOD.

What HT said in that interview is the squad format of the main wont be aprt of ah tod. That mat mean a different format or no squads. I doudt he would go with no squads but either way its to early to jump to extreme conclusions. Best to wait and see.

[lazs2]

Not sure what you are complaining about... Are you saying that you just now discovered that being on the side that is being steamrollered makes it harder to survive?

If you are saying that you have discovered that the only real strat in AH is.... The side with the numbers "wins" the reset... then you haven't been paying attention... I have been saying that for a very long time.

I don't see what any of this has to do with AH2 tho except that AH2 should make things better.... those who like strat (milkruns and suicide attention grabbing) will go to TOD.   There will be room to make the MA more fight friendly and, as mars points out, we will be getting some graphics and FM changes.
lazs

[Toad]

I'm hoping MA strat will get a tune up (overhaul?) at the same time. IMO, when the emphasis shifts away from "the fight" in any combat type sim/game, you've built yourself a problem.

"Winning the war" needs to relate to how well you fight. What seems to have developed in the MA is that it relates to how well you avoid a fight. Now some will quibble, but milkruns, unbalanced strat opportunities and steamrollers really do not contribute much to the type of fight most folks seek in a "combat" game. Does anyone really log into a combat game to enjoy rolling over the enemy at 40/5 odds every night?

Just my .02. I'm willing to wait to see what the new AH2 brings and I'm willing to wait through the following couple of "." releases to see how it is tweaked out. Then I'll decide.

[beet1e]

Lazs � I�m not surprised you are not sure what I�m complaining about. Simple answer really: I�m not complaining at all. I am observing. I leave all the whining to you and other furball whiners. Whines about bombs, whines about maps, whines about suicide fuel porkers, whines about target hardness, whines about night & day, whines about defending HQ being �no fun�, whines about certain players being "timid"... quite a whine cellar you have down there. Speciality seems to be the Ch�teau Lazsite Baron Rothschild, but it�s getting old, sour and vinegary. Time to try a new vintage.

Condensed version for Lazs, and any others with attention span deficit syndrome

I look forward to AH2/TOD because I�m hoping it will provide realistic missions, realistic plane matchups and parity of numbers � altogether a more balanced arena. Much better than the numerical supremacy smashdown crap we have now. But given that so many apparently enjoy and derive satisfaction from steamrollering, I suspect that many of these folks will not be interested in AH2/TOD or any other balanced scenario. Pity.

Now Lazs, take your time to read the above paragraph � the Cliff Notes version of my original post in blue I did just for you. If you reply, see if you can do it without recourse to the following:

• snide remarks
• quoting other people�s stats or scores
• turning it into a �my k/d is better than yours� thread.
• accusing another player of bragging or being an attention seeker or sky accountant.

[beet1e]

Mr. Toad!

Glad we agree on the balance issue.

[Creamo]

What does this have to do with AH2:TOD?

[Mini D]

I made a statement a couple of years ago that the MA is so far away from what I wanted out of a combat sim that its best to just work with the tools available and hope a new game came out.

Someone (I forget who) asked me via e-mail what I'd prefer to see in a combat flight sim.  I wrote about two pages of hopes for a combat sim.  I really wish I'd saved that e-mail because it pretty much described AH2 TOD.

What TOD will bring:

• Actual missions with actual goals
• Elimination of instant reward/gratification
• Real incentive to actually survive missions weighed heavily against the need to complete them
• Simulating the "make the best of the situation" mentality that WW2 squadrons faced in regards to resources.  Basically, the need to figure out how to best accomplish the mission with the given aircraft... not chosing the best aircraft for the mission
• Penalties for dieing (though I suggested 1 death equals start over from scratch)
• Not being able to pick and choose your squadmates, instead having to work with those you were teamed with.
• Having a basic flight training that covered things like basic wingman tactics and formation flying (not too long, but long enough)

There were some other things too... but that was the meat and potatos version.

The only real problem with squads is that in the MA, you pick who you have fun with and it works.  In combat, you weren't afforded that luxury.  You made due.

To be honest, a sim that attempts to closely simulate Air Combat needs to have an MA running along side of it.  Simulating combat means simulating real work... doing things you don't necessarily like to nor want to do with company you may or may not enjoy.  It will be welcomed by some simply because of the challenge presented, not necessarily because of the "fun" factor.  The fun will have to be had in the MA.  This is what I was wanting when the CT was introduced... not a mini MA.

MiniD

[Grimm]

Have I Mentioned AH:TOD is not intended to Fix the MA, draw players out of the MA or effect MA Gameplay at all?  

As I understand it, Its hoped to draw a new type of customer that is looking for something between a boxed game, and what we have now.

Its open to everyone, and I am sure most current players will check it out.  Some will find that it suits them best and spend their time there.   But Most Current Players will be doing exactly what they are doing now.  

Sorry Laz, Its not likely to change gameplay much.  I think Batz is the only one that really seems to understand what is planned for AH:TOD.  

Dont look for Missions, Steamrollers, Gangbangs, Dweeb planes, or Porking to go away.   The MA will say pretty close to what we have now.  

The side bonus is the new graphics and modeling will give the MA a face lift.    

I wonder if anyone that flies currently in the MA seriously intends to leave the MA and fly only TOD...  I know Ill check it out, but Ill still fly the MA.