Author Topic: Bombers....are they made of balsa wood or something? (Read 492 times)

jpeg · « **Reply #15 on:** November 30, 2001, 12:38:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by mrfish:

the buff guns in this game are killers and they're adjusted hi

And where did you get this information from?

You should read this recent thread

http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=012667

mrsid2 · « **Reply #16 on:** November 30, 2001, 07:16:00 AM »

jpeg buffs are frail only at altitudes below 20k. Above that they eat any fighter for lunch.

I took a B17 to 27k once and got attacked by three enemy planes simultaneously: 152 and two 262..

Guess who won?

Needless to say I came home with a lot of perk points.

Buff performance at high altitude is by any means superior to fighters, it can outturn them at that alt and if fighter makes a high-speed pass in vertical, the buff usually can outrun them while they try to grab again unless the first shot was successful.

Lancaster is the only buff which has trouble killing fighters below 20k due to its horrible .303 guns and very low aft turret ammo load.

Kweassa · « **Reply #17 on:** November 30, 2001, 07:21:00 AM »

Buffs are not frail.

If there is something to be fixed, it's not the durability. It's the "all-or-nothing" damage model that needs to be fixed. 30mm shots to the tail are gonna blow humongous chunks off and eventually cause the buff to crash, but it doesn't mean the whole rear section just snaps off and the plane is thrown off balance like we see currently in AH.

With better damage modelling we'll see something like this when 30mm shots are to the tail: chunks of tail section gone, and the Lanc noses down.... it begins with a shallow and slow dive at first, then the angle becomes steeper, and the Lanc wouldn't be able to nose up nor slow down and eventually airframe falls off and crash.

...

But, anyway, buffs are not frail.

StSanta · « **Reply #18 on:** November 30, 2001, 07:32:00 PM »

Depends, as with other planes, on where you hit them.

Wingtip cannot take much damage.

Fuselage otoh can. Put over 5 30mm into the fuselage, and a good number of 20mm too. No damage to buff.

Some people are great buff hunters, and that's that.

Chaos68 · « **Reply #19 on:** November 30, 2001, 07:47:00 PM »

i was flying gunner for someone lastnight. HE was in a lanc, a boggie was on your 6 so i jumped into the rear gunner and started fireing at him. i made a few pings on him but he shot me up bad. I had 1032 rounds left but the gun would not work anymore?

Can the gun be damaged or the gunner dead? thats the only things i could come up with.

Raubvogel · « **Reply #20 on:** November 30, 2001, 08:03:00 PM »

Yes Chaos, guns can be knocked out.

214thCavalier · « **Reply #21 on:** November 30, 2001, 08:33:00 PM »

The key to buff killing is a Hi speed pass from above, if timed correctly you give your bullets a huge kinetic energy boost before they are even fired because of your hi rate of closure.
Attacks like this make 6 x 50's deadly in one pass from above, as long as you can concentrate your fire at 1 target.
Usually i aim for the cockpit initially if i get a burst in there i then let the bullets stream back to a point just in front of the tail and hold it there as long as i can before breaking off.
It is very rare if the bomber does not go down in 1 pass.
I now have 1 golden rule when attacking buffs, if i dont have about 3 k alt advantage and cant get directly above them i let em go.
Now a wise buff will sit within a wind shear or just below because this can cause havoc with a fighter lining up at speed from above, usually you have to correct your aim and this obviously cuts down the time available to hold on target.
Personally i dont feel the buffs are weak.

StSanta · « **Reply #22 on:** December 01, 2001, 03:24:00 AM »

Heh yah, it's easy with .50's, where ya can open up at d1.0 and keep firing. Hose the buff and down he goes.

Bit more tricky with Mausers. I usually hold my fire til around d200, then make an extremely close pass.

Karnak · « **Reply #23 on:** December 01, 2001, 03:28:00 AM »

One pass with a C.202 and its bye-bye B-17.

At least that's what happened last time I ran into a B-17 while flying a C.202.

mrsid2 · « **Reply #24 on:** December 01, 2001, 04:11:00 AM »

Karnak he probably was damaged up to the point that a sneeze would rip his wing off..

Last time I killed a B17 in 202 it took over half of the 202 ammo load fired consistently on the wing from D200-300. The pilot was a newbie so he didn't shoot back

I kept shooting and shooting, must have been 20-30 seconds of fire nonstop

I started to think already that 202 just couldn't down a b17 even if I put the full ammo load in.

Karnak · « **Reply #25 on:** December 01, 2001, 05:18:00 AM »

Mr RiplEy,

Nah, this guy was fresh. I watched him spawn and take off.

Bounced him when he was well clear of the AA.

I started on his right wing, slid the fire over the fuselage and drilled the left wing for the rest of the way in. I was blacked out for the last bit, but I know that my final hits where probably from less than D25. He got a few hits on me on the way in, but not once I slid behind and below him. I think he lost track of where I went.

When I came out of the blackout and looked behind me he was spiraling down, minus his left wing.

[ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: Karnak ]

mrsid2 · « **Reply #26 on:** December 01, 2001, 05:29:00 AM »

So what happened in reality was that you rammed him and he lost his wing due to collision

Am0n · « **Reply #27 on:** December 03, 2001, 01:13:00 PM »

actualy ive downed a b17 in a 202 also with out a problem. I was even making slashing attacks, not saddled up on his 6. It could be the fact that i have my convergence in the 202 @ 175 and i was firing with in that area.

I next to never fly buffs and i still think they could use some more armor.

mrfish · « **Reply #28 on:** December 03, 2001, 02:15:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by jpeg:

And where did you get this information from?

You should read this recent thread

http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=012667[/Q UOTE]

it has come up over and over those threads are way old anyway ive heard it a dozen times in the past 1.5 yrs - i thought it was common knowledge that hitech upped the 50cal strength as a game adjustment to even the field. maybe if they implemented a search feature i could tell you.

if they have changed that fine but your 'proof' thread doesnt say whther they have or havent it just presents a bunch of hypothetical reasons why the bullets may be deadly. it never says conclusively whther they have or have not been adjusted. they are sound arguments but inconclusive. just because it should be deadly doent tell me whether it was beefed up or not, only that it shoudl be deadly. point out where it says they arent adjusted and ill agree with you in a heartbeat.

something conclusive would be like....oh i dont know maybe:

"the buff guns have not been increased in strength - they are modelled to be at their real world equivalent strength.

- hitech/pyro"

anything else is guessing.
good guessing mind you, but guessing. including saying they are.