Online sims and Strat

[Ripsnort]

Okay, I'm confused, I've read on these boards about "Same old strat" but my understanding of WW2 history in regards to aviation was that strat was basically "King of the Hill"...ie. you bomb the cities, factories, etc...you then capture a territorial section of mother earth (in this case, Airfields) and form a new "front line"..once you capture enough territory, you win...so, why do people say "Same old strat.."?  Is there a new  strat that historians have left out?

By changing strat, as far as my shallow eyes can see, means adding objects such as vehicles, boats, expanding the 'Same old strat' that currently exists.

Can someone tell me what 'new strat' would be?  I haven't a clue what folks are talking about when they say "Same old strat", since I know of no other idea other than what our fore fathers did.

[Vermillion]

Trains, Trucks, Barges, Roads, Bridges, Canals and supply lines just to name a few.

Also we have factories, but those factories, get a "resupply the base for free" card, regardless of the tactical situation.

In other words, it should be possible to interdict those replacement Acks coming on the train from the factory.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure

[Ripsnort]

So, confirm that it IS the same old strat, with more objects added...right?

I get tired of folks saying 'its the same old strat'..when indeed, it IS, its SUPPOSE TO BE, it's depicting WW2 !!!

[rzch]

So the wwII factories had cargo transporters that just zapped the supplies straight to the front huh? I musta missed that in my history books.  

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[Apache]

He is talking strat "model" rzch. Sheesh!

[funked]

Rip, except for Crete, WW2 battles did not involve transports dropping troops to capture airfields.

Territory was taken by men with guns, usually walking, sometimes driving.

Supplies did not magically appear at the front lines.  They had to get there somehow.

Go fly Longbow 2 or Falcon 4 (or even Falcon 3) to see what I'm talking about.  THAT is a strat model.

This piddly capture the flag stuff we have doesn't cut it.

[Ripsnort]

   

Originally posted by funked:
Rip, except for Crete, WW2 battles did not involve transports dropping troops to capture airfields.

Territory was taken by men with guns, usually walking, sometimes driving.

Supplies did not magically appear at the front lines.  They had to get there somehow.

Go fly Longbow 2 or Falcon 4 (or even Falcon 3) to see what I'm talking about.  THAT is a strat model.

This piddly capture the flag stuff we have doesn't cut it.

Funked, used to fly F4 and LB2 alot,both have a semi-dynamic campaign, somewhat scripted, if you perform XXX, AI takes this route, then you end up here in the campaign...I can't see AH doing that...

I guess what I'm trying to say is, War IS CAPTURE THE FLAG, its what you add to it that  adds more strat.

If you take out troops capturing territory with planes, then you are getting OUT of the realm of a flight sim and into a WW2 Online style arena..I guess they did it this way so that it was close to what would have happened, troops capturing an airfield.

When folks complain about the "same old strat", and you ask them what they would do to improve it, they start naming OBJECTS they would add to improve it, but guess what, ITS STILL THE SAME OLD STRAT!


[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 09-21-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 09-21-2000).]

[funked]

Bombers exist to pound stuff on the ground.  Fighters exist to protect friendly bombers and eliminate enemy bombers. Period.

That's air combat as it was in WW2.

If you don't model the stuff on the ground for bombers to kill, the whole thing falls apart.

I don't particularly want to play as a ground unit.  That stuff can be AI for all I care.  But it needs to be there if you want WW2 air combat.

[funked]

The other big thing that is missing from all of these games is THE MISSION.

Even if you build a framework where realistic execution of a mission has a realistic effect on the war, you still have to get people to do their JOBS.  Jobs of pilots in WW2 were NOT things like "Take off by myself, fly to the nearest blob on my AWACS display, shoot, die, repeat."

Until a developer has the nads to force pilots to work together on missions, we're stuck in the same endless loop of furball hell.  

[AKDejaVu]

In regards to the war.. there really isn't much strategy needed.  In regards to the game, there is.

Unfortunately, even with the very simplistic strategy needed to play AH as it sits, very few are willing to do that.  I'd estimate 70% of the pilots flying simply want to go up and shoot another plane down... not caring who, what, where, why or when.

We have simple strategy right now, yet nobody wants to play it.  Make it more complex, and 30% of the pilots will have more to do.. the others will start complaining that they have to fly farther.

AKDejaVu

[CavemanJ]

 

Originally posted by funked:

Until a developer has the nads to force pilots to work together on missions, we're stuck in the same endless loop of furball hell.    

I think we're just about there.  It's unlikely you'll take a base without a coordinated effort these days.  Take the fight at A3 last night  

[This message has been edited by CavemanJ (edited 09-21-2000).]

[funked]

Cave that's true, but not all the pilots care about taking bases.