Author Topic: Friendly Hits....rethink (Read 861 times)

NHawk · « **Reply #15 on:** September 01, 2003, 08:23:35 AM »

Quite simply to return AH to a sim and lower it's "game" status, killshooter should be abolished completely.

Since most of these are because of poor SA, the person zipping in front of you should take the damage. As I've pointed out before, someone coming into a battle from below and behind is at fault. The friendly pilot can't see someone coming from that location. So, if a friendly shoots you, you die with no penalty to the shooter. The only exception to this should be in totally friendly situations. Such as in an area where no enemy are present. Even then the killshooter is questionable for the sake of realism.

If someone clips your wing (friendly or enemy) you both die if the damage is severe enough. Mid-air collisions should affect both planes no matter what the situation. In other words a big BOOM for both pilots.

Runway collisions should also be enabled. There is no way on earth 25 planes could ever take off and land all at once, using the same runway on an airfield. They would have to be spread out over time. This business of a plane passing through another plane during takeoff is a bunch of non-realistic balony. Some sort of tower clearance for takeoff needs to be implemented, or the pilot needs to decide it's clear for takeoff. If he's wrong, he'll learn quickly that ground crashes will kill both him and the one he hits.

Anti aircraft guns should affect both friendly and enemy planes. AA was not and is not selective about it's targets. If there are friendly planes in the air while it's firing, the odds of a friendly being hit are the same as hitting an enemy plane.

Anyway, if all of these were introduced people would quickly learn the consequences of poor flight habits.

SKurj · « **Reply #16 on:** September 01, 2003, 11:20:22 AM »

And how to grief NHawk...

Imagine if you will....

Player A spawns B17 form... parks in middle of runway

Player B is po'd at you for getting that last kill he wanted.. he gives you a little slap and removes a few control surfaces...

SKurj

ply · « **Reply #17 on:** September 01, 2003, 12:33:37 PM »

I liked the AW model that made you PNG (persona non grata) if you killed 2 or maybe it was 3 friendly targets you had to switch countries to fly for the next 24 hours. I once bombed a factory that i did not notice had become ours and was PNG for 24 hours. I never saw anyone become PNG because of people jumping in their line of fire. It might have happend, but I know I would not like to be the person who caused it. Pinging a friendly almost always evoked an apology. Besides, you could shoot at least 1 friendly down a day that jumped in your line of fire, OOPS sorry,

Joker312 · « **Reply #18 on:** September 01, 2003, 01:01:13 PM »

I very rarely have any problems with KS. Not sure why but I usually scan around pretty well. I also will ask on range chan if a friendly needs help with an enemy before jumping into a fight if the fights pretty even. This serves 2 purposes, it lets others know I am there and its just common courtesy.

Seems to work for me.

DrDea · « **Reply #19 on:** September 01, 2003, 04:20:43 PM »

I dont have any problems with KS.! because I know whats around me.All you have to go is pay attention.Turning off KS wont help.If they take the damage from your guns that leads to all kinds of idiots with a grudge causing problems.Accidents happen.If people try to horn in on a kill fly somewhere else because Ive seen plenty of people shooting away at a plane with no wing spinning to earth.Collsions?Thats a real bad idea.Get some bone head with an attitude parking on a base runway thats under attack and he can stop a whole field from upping to help.The only real cure I see is the AW train of thought.2 friendly kills in 24 hours and your PNG.Its really the only fair way to do it.Situational awareness people.Ive heard alot complaiign about KS affecting them.I just dont have a problem shooting friendlys.Cept the occational Squadie that I nuke with rockets

BNM · « **Reply #20 on:** September 02, 2003, 02:25:37 AM »

I think the shooter should lose his ammo. This is penalty enough. You have to rtb to rearm but at least you don't get a death. I think instant death and persona non-grata are both overkill. My $0.02

NHawk · « **Reply #21 on:** September 02, 2003, 01:10:43 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by DrDea
Collsions?Thats a real bad idea.Get some bone head with an attitude parking on a base runway thats under attack and he can stop a whole field from upping to help.

Actually since both the person sitting on the runway and the person that hit him would die, this wouldn't affect things as much as you think. Plus you could always go around him.

Realism is the object of my post. To much has already been sacrificed for "game play" and not enough realism is included.

DrDea · « **Reply #22 on:** September 02, 2003, 02:58:56 PM »

I dont know.I remember trying Fighter ace way back when and the one thing that made me say no way in hell was the friendly colllisions.It was impossible.People slamming into each other.Try a dead stick landing when people are taking off.It would really just piss off to many players IMHO.

NHawk · « **Reply #23 on:** September 02, 2003, 05:40:51 PM »

Realism hurts. If you can't collide, or an accidental hit on a friendly hurts you and not the one you hit then AH will continue to be a game and not a sim.

Which will result in the loss of not only my money, but most of the true sim enthusiasts waiting silently to see what AH2 is all about.

recon1 · « **Reply #24 on:** September 06, 2003, 09:11:54 AM »

There really is a simple solution to this matter. Lead fighter on an enemy has authority. Joining fighter MUST communnicate covering 6 or if lead cannot make the kill then turn it over to other fighters. Secondary fighters who intercept without communication should get shot down if they fly in the path of the lead fighters bullets. REAL LIFE!!! This will force newbies and veterans alike to start communicating with each other, which is a large problem I see right now amongst players. Don't have a mic or sound card, DONT PLAY UNTIL YOU HAVE ONE!!!!!! Fly C-47 for a month..

Just my opinion.

Arlo · « **Reply #25 on:** September 06, 2003, 12:50:52 PM »

How do you see squad or unit structure shaping out in AHII? For example, currently there is a 32 person limit for squad members in one arena. Is there a plan on changing that?[/color] - SimHQ

There will be a lot of things that are either different or won’t carry over from Classic to ToD. For example, killshooter (reflective damage for friendly fire) will remain in Classic but won’t be in ToD. Instead, there will be a court martial system. - Pyro

SKurj · « **Reply #26 on:** September 07, 2003, 02:26:51 PM »

NHawk...

these "true sim enthusiasts" are NOT patiently waiting for AH2... If they are they gonna be sorely dissappointed. They should be waiting for TOD.

AH2 likely for the next year, is going to be real close to what you see now... Once TOD arrives the realism selective will have something to complain about +)

SKurj

Innominate · « **Reply #27 on:** September 07, 2003, 03:55:57 PM »

Killshooter is the only effective implementation for friendly fire in a game in which the player base is not tightly controlled. (That is, that you cant ban offenders regularly)

Perk penealties are meaningless, since perks arent of much use anyways, and what hapens when you hit 0? All of the other various artifical systems are just silly when compared to the elegant simplicity of killshooter.

That said, the current implementation of killshooter is broken. It's implemented such that all rounds which hit an enemy plane will hit your plane's tail(The weakest part of every plane) The damage should be mapped to an appropriate part of your aircraft, depending on where you hit the friendly, or randomly if no similar part can be found(i.e. shooting a friendly GV).

Also, killshooter for rockets and bombs that happened to hit near a friendly plane who was strafing(And which often nothing can be done to avoid, other than to not bother bringing ord in the first place) should simply be disabled.