Set-Up for 9-12-03

[eskimo2]

I must admit that this thread was intended to be a whine, not a troll.  It was meant to comment on how the Allies TEND to consistently have an aircraft performance edge.  Very often the Allies have both the fastest AND the best turning aircraft.  There also is a tendency for Allied numbers to be high.  After all, who wants to play for the evil losers?

I really thought the lopsidedness of this “set-up” was so blatant, that no one could mistake it to be anything other than a joke.  The fact that so many took it seriously indicates that perhaps the Axis have become all too accustomed to getting the short end of the stick.

I wonder how the response would have been had the Axis been given 262s, 163s, A6m-5s N1Ks, etc, and the Allies stuck with P-47-D25s, P-40Ds and Bostons.

Would the laughter been greater?
Or the whines louder?

(Yes, an official Luftwhine has been recorded.)

eskimo

[Karnak]

I don't know what to say eskimo.

It does seem that the Allies expect to have the edge in any given setup.  If they don't, we hear a lot about the removal of the F4U-1.

[DiabloTX]

I have to admit seeing the setup and thinking that the Axis would be at a huge, monstrous disadvantage but made up my mind to make the best of it.  But that's just me, the glass is always half full.

[DJ111]

Why is Tunisia still up?...

[walkingdead21]

Yeah, I am rather tired of this anti axis sentiment. I believe it Has nothing to do with the fact that the axis lost the real thing(I'm not going to get into the numbers factor). I am leaning to believe that it is more of a kinda selfish egotistical type of funky thing. I mean it is like those who own the game also really enjoy flying allied aircraft. Why other than fair play would they want to fight the deadly and illusive K4s or even fwD-9s that are up to specs. For that matter why other than fair play would they happily set up so many CTs that the allied mysteriously have late war aircraft and the axis are left with mid war crap? Lets face it, we LW dweebs pay our monthy fee's to fight as hard as we can in outdated aircraft to give allied flunkies easy kills in their late war machines.  All the fuss about how many 109s that are offered but why in the last updates did they not give us the K4 or for that matter the stuka with the good juno and cannon. What they did give us was the early war 109E and the mid war Stuka with the useless guns. I'll tell you why the Axis does not have late war machines, because then it would be even tougher for the allied flunkies to get their kills. After almost two years I am convinced someone in AH desires not to actually have a real axis threat in the air. I think they are trying to avoid having an axis threat that would require skill to defeat instead of simply relying on the machine.
 
   I have heard no good news on there being a high climbing 452mph tighter turning 109K4 in AH2(I actually haven't looked I'm just assuming). Funny how there is a spit14 in AH and no 109K4. If the K4 were offered I would expect it to cost perk points in the MA which I would gladly spend the price of a 262 to ride in that insane prop rocket.
 
(Sigh) I miss my AW K4 and I miss out climbing and out extending everything like the K4 should. This business of not being able to climb out of a Spit9 or Yak9s guns is ridiculous to say the least.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Karnak
I don't know what to say eskimo.

It does seem that the Allies expect to have the edge in any given setup.  If they don't, we hear a lot about the removal of the F4U-1.

ROFL

[Karnak]

Walkingdead,

Erm, I'd check your facts first.

The Bf109G-10 has a top speed of 452mph and has been in AH from before v1.0.

The Bf109G-10 easily out climbs the Spitfire Mk IX.

The Fw190D-9 is not the absolute best Fw190D-9, but it is in the upper range of D-9s.

The Bf109E-4 was added because the Spitfire Mk Ia, Hurricane Mk I and Bf110C-4b were added.  In other words as part of the Battle of Britain planeset, not to punish the LW.

The Spitfire Mk XIV has a perk icon that renders it nigh useless given that it is slow on WEP at AH combat altitudes and is mediocre at best after its 5 minutes of WEP is gone.  You can have it.

OK, lets check facts:

The LW has:

Bf109G-10: Best possible
Bf109G-6: Worst possible
Bf109G-2: Standard
Bf109F-4: Standard
Bf109E-4: Standard
Bf110C-4b: Good
Bf110G-2: I don't have info
Fw190A-5: Standard
Fw190A-8: I don't have info
Fw190F-8: Missing important loadouts
Fw190D-9: Good, but not best
Ta152H-1: Disputed modeling errors (I think it is too slow)
Me262A-1: Great
Me163B: Good

RAF:
Hurricane Mk I: Standard
Hurricane Mk IIc: Standard
Hurricane Mk IId: Non synced guns cripple it
Mosquito Mk VI: Good bombs and engines, but loses 15mph to useless exhaust dampers
Seafire Mk IIc: Worst possible
Spitfire Mk Ia: Standard
Spitfire Mk Vb: Best possible
Spitfire Mk IX: Worst possible
Spitfire Mk XIVc: Standard
Typhoon Mk Ib: Best possible
Tempest Mk V: Good, but missing full ammo load

[DiabloTX]

Originally posted by Karnak
The Fw190D-9 is not the absolute best Fw190D-9, but it is in the upper range of D-9s.

Oh, you are soooo wrong about the D-9.  That is the best D-9 of all time.  The D-9 your thinking of is closer to the D-9 of the D-9 class.   To say the D-9 is not the absolute D-9 is a mistake and irrespective of which D-9 you want to bad mouth, the D-9 is clearly superior to the D-9, the D-9, or even the D-9.  Get your D-9's straight Karnak, sheeeeesh.  

[eskimo2]

Originally posted by DiabloTX
Oh, you are soooo wrong about the D-9.  That is the best D-9 of all time.  The D-9 your thinking of is closer to the D-9 of the D-9 class.   To say the D-9 is not the absolute D-9 is a mistake and irrespective of which D-9 you want to bad mouth, the D-9 is clearly superior to the D-9, the D-9, or even the D-9.  Get your D-9's straight Karnak, sheeeeesh.  

Exactly what I was thinking.

























eskimo

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by storch
The fact is the allied forces won but not through superior materiel but through vastly greater numbers, better intelligence,  ( did I hear anyone say enigma ? ) and the fact that the AXIS needed to be defeated.  

Storch, storch....you and I have to talk, some day.

Frankly, after about 1942 I EXPECT that the allies should generally have better planes than the axis.  That was real life (yes, yes, I know, there was the Me-109K-72-a-g4 with the rebazak option, but only one of them ever flew).  I'm with Eskimo that last week's setup wasn't balanced, but I attribute that almost entirely to the presence of the Spit 9, which has that effect on any setup (except possibly Egypt 1956).

- oldman

[eskimo2]

Most air battles in WWII were not fair.  Early on, the axis often had an advantage in both plane performance and numbers of aircraft.  By the end of the war, the advantages swung to the Allies.  The point of this game is not to recreate history at every turn, but it is to PLAY A GAME that somewhat resembles history.  For it to be a fun game, it does not need to be fair all the time.  However, consistent lopsidedness is hardly ever fun.

What I don’t like seeing, is a set up that gives the Allies (or the Axis for that mater) an advantage of having the fastest planes in the set up, and the best turners.  Couple this with a tendency of many players to always choose the side with the better plane set, and you will often have the side with the performance advantage also gaining a great numbers advantage.  Very few players can survive in an environment facing an enemy in greater numbers, with faster and better turning planes that are also probably at an altitude advantage.

Every set up does not need to involve combined Allied forces.  While certainly countries fought together, seldom did a big mix of fighter types on both sides engage each other.  Most battles that I have read about involved only one fighter type per side engaging each other.  Personally, I find big type-mix fights less immersive than one type verses one type.  If I’m flying a 109, and I see P-47s, P-51s, P-38s, Typhoons, Spitfires and Hurricanes all in one furball, I don’t buy-in to the fight as a believable battle.   20 or 30 of one type gives me the feeling of really being there.  A big silly mix is just a glaring reminder of how the CT can resemble the MA.  

My recommendation is that future set-ups offer less plane types per base.  Single air bases did not launch P-47s, P-51s, P-38s, Typhoons, Spitfires and Hurricanes.  I don’t think it helps CT game play either.  One or two fighter types per base is plenty, IMO.  

Personally, I’d be happy with only one fighter type per side in the entire arena.  I think the above recommendation would offer enough type variety to keep the single plane type enthusiasts happy though.

eskimo

[walkingdead21]

Your high if you think the G10 is modeled to go 452 mph!
top speed of AHs G-10 which is not a K4 is only 420 on a good day with the wind at your back!. That is level flight gentleman not in a slight dive. Not to mention it is not modeled to be even close to the K4s turning ability nor the rediculas climbrate  of 4.8-5.1.  The G-10 is a rather lame excuse of not having a K4. If there is a spit14 then there should be a K4. And anybody who dissagrees with me wouldn't know a K4 if it bit em in the arse.

Wraith

[Shane]

Originally posted by walkingdead21
The G-10 is a rather lame excuse of not having a K4. If there is a spit14 then there should be a K4. And anybody who dissagrees with me wouldn't know a K4 if it bit em in the arse.
Wraith

the 109g10 is an even match for the spit14. if you don't think so, then you've not flown either the g10 or the spit14 enough.

this ain't RR.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Shane

this ain't RR.

You tell `em, Shane!

[Slash27]

Eskimo

If I’m flying a 109, and I see P-47s, P-51s, P-38s, Typhoons, Spitfires and Hurricanes all in one furball,

  What set up is this? I realize you are trying to make a point but it comes across a bit imbelished. I think your idea of a reduced number of fighter types per side should be considered for some set ups.

Wraith

I'll tell you why the Axis does not have late war machines, because then it would be even tougher for the allied flunkies to get their kills. After almost two years I am convinced someone in AH desires not to actually have a real axis threat in the air.

     Allied "flunkies" have no say in the plane set.