Originally posted by Tuomio
If i remember correctly, he said that "soon we are going to eat ice cream in Helsinki". Im not sure if it was Stalin who said that they were going to be in Helsinki after 3 weeks.
I have heard this from various sources and documentaries.
Never ever heard about it. If such things were said - every demscisoid dog will bark about it at every corner now.
Such words are simply out of line of Soviet propaganda and politics. It can be an anecdote. Nice propaganda hook. Really nice.
Originally posted by Tuomio
This must be same kinds of questions red army generals were asking when they manufactured Mainilas border crisis. What could possibly this small and poor country do against hordes of Soviet troops?
Mannerheim estimated that Finland was able to endure for 2 weeks after Soviet invasion. Mistakes in Soviet command and incredible frost (even for Russians), the stupid idea that we can win by throwing our fur-hats at Finns were the cause of the disaster. And, on the first place - desperation, bravery and skills of your Grandfathers. But after Red Army started to act according to it's own field regulations - everything was finished in a matter of days.
Originally posted by Tuomio
It looks you are now speaking of things that could have happened, if this and that were known and ordered. Not a single tank came trough the Gulf to this day. But maybe Stalin just wanted to be fair to us and instead of doing it easy way, he came from Karelia again and again and losing hordes of men. Or should i say the generals who were in charge, Stalin was fixated on Hitlers front.
You are mistaken. 70th infantry division crossed Finnish Gulf, with all armour, in March, 1940 IIRC. Commander was M.P. Kirponos. Finland demanded a cease-fire immediately after this.
Again, the stupid idea that Finns will just surrender costed us thousands of lives. Everything was finished in a matter of days when we started to act according to the regulations. You know, regulations are written with blood...
Originally posted by Tuomio
If we were supposed to be easy nut to crack, why they fought in Karelia, but didnt just come in Helsinki to cut the beasts head off? To claim that we didnt have resources is maybe true, but what did Latvia or Lithuania have? Or Estonia? I can see plenty of strategical benefits for claiming our lands. Not like Stalin needed any, he was just lunie who felt he was a god and acted accordingly. Soviets liked to expand and why not to expand to place who was stick in your butt for 5 years? Something that didnt happen doesent mean somebody didnt want.
You can call Stalin whatever you want, but he definetly was not a loonie.
We needed naval bases outside Finnish Gulf, and we got Libava (Liepaya, sorry, I use names in old-fashioned "naval" transcribtion). We got rid of potential beachheads for agression in Pribaltika. We got Hanko (Gangut). We had to think of "indirect agression", a term never admitted by League of Nations. Again, time have shown that Stalin was right.
Originally posted by Tuomio
And we did move our borders peacefully to some extent. But you wanted more, our important choke points against Soviet possible assault were to be given for you for future purposes.
Hmm. I have never heard about "moving borders peacefully".
Maybe a lack in my education. I am not even an amateur historian
What I know is that hostilities with Finland went on in 1918-22, and there was no movement of borders in our favour (hope you understand what I mean).
Originally posted by Tuomio
We were allied with Nazis, so nobody wouldve done anything to support this god forgotten land. UK declared war against us remember?
Well. This paragraph tells me a lot.
JFYI: the ONLY country that supported Soviet agression in Finland was nazi Germany. UK and France were planning to land in Norway and directly send troops to the theatre of operations and help Finns. USSR avoided this only by mere chance. More to say, UK and France were planning various offencive operations against USSR in 1940. The most well-known plan was bombing Caspian oil wells in Baku from the bases in Iran. USSR had to enforce Caucasian military district by 3 times preparing for such actions of future "allies".
UK declared war on Finland in 1943, as you said above. In 1940 USSR had a treaty with Germany, so UK and France supported Finland.
It's sad that you don't know such key points of your own contry's history
Originally posted by Tuomio
No, we opposed you, thats a fact. But we didnt have chance to win if we would receive Soviets full attention.
Finland didn't have any chance to stop USSR even when only Leningrad military district was involved in a war.
Originally posted by Tuomio
We starved (verb) them to death? Did we gas them, or deny something that coulve been easily given? Were there reasonable options for camps? Feel free to tell the stories of the people who were there.
The reasonable option for camps was simply letting people live and not start national segregation. What really shoked me was the fact that Saam population were given special ribbons with "relative nation" written on them. Unfortunately, after invading into historicaly Russian land Finland started to act like nazis did in Poland, Belorussia, Ukraine and Russia....
Originally posted by Tuomio
I have never stated such things. If you pack 10 000 people in small area with ****ty infrastructure, that place will be a hellhole and very inhumane. But did we seek ways to make it worse, i think not.
I dont know about the partisans, i have heard their mission was to rape and do general havoc in civilian infrastructure. Dont know whether our patrols had habit of raping or burning civilian buildings.
Skyddskår were in fact feared more then German SS troops
They were in fact acting against civilian population. Now it's called "terrorism"
Unlike Soviet "partisans", who were in fact
wearing Red Army uniform, they were nothing more then armed gangs that
did have a habbit to rape and burn
BTW, how do you imagine a "mission" to rape declared to a regular army unit? It was impossible according to the official Soviet line. Simply -
impossible. Any commander issuing such orders must have been immediately removed from his unit and put under military tribunal.
Again I have to say that I feel sorry that my country had to start an agression against Finland, and I adore the bravery and will of Finnish people. Now I am looking for a Stalin's toast speech for the Finnish people where he expressed the same feelings.
