They're Talking About Us Again

[Gadfly]

Defend what?  I play what I like, and so should you.

[SunKing]

edit... not even worth the argue..

[Vulcan]

blkmgc I think your attitude towards AI is probably the most short sighted uneducated dribble I've seen for ages.

What could AI do for WW2OL? For a start, road and ship convoys providing a logistics infrastructure and that affects fuel, ammo, and vehicle supplies. And much much more.

The funny thing is, when I asked about this in WW2OL (logistics infrastructure) I was told it was a planned 'thing'. So AI is going to be implemented on a similar scale in WW2OL too, just perhaps not in buff formations.

WW2OL doesn't have the numbers to run those sorts of things without AI. If there were no AI the map would be reset every night. Last night I was part of large attacks on a couple of towns (Tienen and Leuven), we rolled those towns with virtually NO resistance, at most we had EI or ETs spawning once we'd captured depots, killed the AI, and had a dozen panzers sitting in the AB.

[Dowding]

You've got to admit the whole thing is funny. How Hardcase spammed this board like a good 'un for a couple of years detailing 'features' in WW2OL superior to AH, that have been proven to be either porked beyond belief or simply non-existant.

If AH was a female tennis player, Hardcase would be the nutjob in the front row, with a knife in his hand and a crazy glint in his eye.

[Fishu]

Some of the people on the linked thread seems just as silly as some over here.

[Maniac]

*Waves to the WWIIOL crowd*

[Mini D]

Originally posted by Fishu
Some of the people on the linked thread seems just as silly as some over here.

I agree, and wish they'd really just stay over there.

MiniD

[Sikboy]

People all over the world (everybody)
Join hands (join)
Start a love train, love train
People all over the world (all the world, now)
Join hands (love ride)
Start a love train (love ride), love train


-Sik

[Batz]

Originally posted by blkmgc
Basically, a "realistic modern battlefield simulation" involves a lot of people doing boring stuff. AI needs to be applied to take care of the boring stuff. Criticizing AH for having AI supply convoys is dumb.

 Boring for whom? maybe if HTC brought out AI fighter formations..the shoe would be on the other foot eh?


With that as a definition I imagine CRS would eagerly sacrifice thier first borns to be able to introduce and utilize AI like HTC can.

 No, I dont think you will ever see that over there (other than AA which is where the line should be drawn imo), and if it is..my money will go elsewhere.

 Just a show of hands, how many of you in this thread belong to Bomber squads?hmmm? Not fighter piots that fly bombers when the urge to conga strikes..but dedicated weekly bomber pilots?

 The process of developing gameplay is simple,its all a bunch of "whys" untill you cant say why anymore.

 We need AI Bomber drones
why"
Cause there ant enough humans that want to do it
why?
  Cause the bomber model/ gameplay for the bombers is unapealing.

 Then we need to fix it.

 If you only get as far as:

  We need to have AI bombers
why?
 Cause there arent enought humans that want to do it

 And leave it at that, then..its a bandaid.

 I really enjoyed neeting many of you ingame, and had some fun here, but I'll not fly in a sim where AI are an acceptable medium for the lack of appealing gameplay for  some, but are'nt ok for others. Especially when the comercial touts " play with thousands from around the globe" instead of "play with many AI drones from nowhere"  
 
 and best of luck

 Maj blkmgc
XO 550th BGH

AI bomber formations have nothing to do with "bomber guys". Regardless of how "bombers" are modelled they arent a "big draw" and the fighters folk will almost always out number or at the very least be in equal numbers.

If HT sticks to his plan and Ah2:ToD starts with an 8th airforce setup then the numbers of bomber pilots per mission required to maintain any kind of "historical ratio" will be large. Much larger then you ever saw in WBs or AH.

AH did a "Big Week" scenario with 150 b17s, that still wasnt enough as us lw (2 guys in my squad had 20 kills in 2 frames) killed almost all of them. In our BoB event we had 150 Ju88s. That still wasnt enough.

With missions running on the hour or half hour and the average mission taking about and 1 and a half you will need many many bomber pilots.

AI just supplements those numbers. A player can join a mission as a bomber pilot (not just man the guns or be the bombadier but fly his bomber) and then fly in formation with AI and other human pilots.

Not only is a larger formation better able to defend itself (HT said their will be auto gunners for the AI) but the human bomber pilot wont necessarily take the brunt of the attack. This is very important because bombers being very easy to kill, as they should be (unlike buff tough, lethality roulette like in WBs), the bomber pilots need to have chance of surviving. As a part of a larger formation their odds of survival increase.

Even if their were 300 "dedicated" bomber pilots in AH its not enough to keep missions running on the hour. AI will still be needed. So yeah there isnt enough human bomber pilots. I dont care how well bombers are modelled in any game, you wont ever have those kinda of numbers.

Il2/FB online wars use a lot of AI. Despite some of the bugs in Fb AI does a good job filling rolls where they are no humans.

Ah2 wont have Fighter AI (there really wont be that great a need for it). However, tank attacks and "real" bomber" raids will require larger numbers.

Theres lots things AI could do in wwiiol, things that usually dont get done if there is no human willing to do it. Transports for one. Imagine the guy who makes a mission slects an AI truck, he sets way points and once loaded the truck drives there and dumps off the inf or an at gun. etc. No more virtual jogger.

Say some one makes a 50 plane bomber mission. AI fills out those slots where there are no human pilots. They would need many escorts and would need many attackers to stop them. It would change the nature of the air war where by escort and intercept become more normal then fly to the closest enemy airfield and vulch.

Their could be AI supply convoys, AI shipping convoys etc.......

AI can have a meaningfull role whether in an enviroment like wwiiol or IL2 or wbs or AH. AI doesnt take slots from humans but takes up those roles that dont get filled if there arent enough humans who are willing to do it.

Thats one thing that box games have shown.

[Fishu]

Originally posted by Mini D
I agree, and wish they'd really just stay over there.

MiniD

that didn't get you any points...  you're everyday just making sillier of yourself

[Westy]

"I tell you what, the ratio has shifted."

  True.  There is more infantry because unless you have rank you can't be much more at all.  It would be like AH forcing everyone to fly the A6M2, MC202, P40B, 109E etc etc unless they had a LOT of perk pionts to fly something better.



"even then, playing one does not mean you can't enjoy another."

 Absolutley. But it seems posting ones opinion here (certainly can;t post it on their boards can I?) is heresy and not allowed? I always post what I like (not much. mainly the terrain) and do not like about WWIIO (which is quite a lot).  And now as in the past I get whole discertations and caustic rebuttals from the fanboi's such as Headcase, Fishu or ZilchAce as to how it's my problem and not CRS's or WWIIO. And that my opinon is trolling bullsh&t or outright lies and disinformation posted to discredit CRS and the game.




"short sighted uneducated dribble"

 That''s been his trade mark for quite some time. That's my honest opinion. Not just a flame.
 Still, in response to his bent logic line of "why's".   Why don't more players want to fly bombers instead of fighters?  It's very simple. For the same reason more players do not drive infantry trucks or tow vehicles in WWIIO and why AH and WB players don't fly the C47 or JU "missuns".
 Using a motor vehicle analogy I believe it would be the same reasons most players wouldn't drive a slow, unexciting UPS truck or Metropiltan bus to some destination in order to drop off or pick up passengers or packages is because it's inherantly boring. Most player want to drive the hi performance cars and race against others which is something more exciting to do and requires more skill in the long run.
 In WWII combat games players want to fight against others.  Not just deliver a lethal coupe de gras against tool sheds or run resupply.




"Hardcase still makes me laugh."

 To be honest Hardcase has a serious medical condition and the resultant medication regimen he takes makes me believe he's incapable of remembering accurately what he does.

[Mini D]

Originally posted by Fishu
that didn't get you any points...  you're everyday just making sillier of yourself

That's OK fishu... I believe that at the daily rate I'm going, I'll need another 47 years to make it to your level.

Some day you'll come over here to do something other than critique AH or its community in an attempt to make WW2OL look better.  Then you can start the daily process of looking less silly.

MiniD

[Gadfly]

I thought fishu played AH?

[Toad]

He did a long time ago. Back in the day, he was THE master of the volcano kill streak.

[blkmgc]

Westy and Vulcan,
  I am sorry that you lack the class and maturity to post without insult. I read my post, ther was no banner waving on my part for anybody, too bad some cant express opinion without degredation or insult.

  Batz.
   Thanks for your courteous reply. Your kind of posts perpetuate rational discussions.

  Now onto the meat. I was under the impression that these are flight sims.. Its been in my experience that there still is'nt any flight sim that offeres a correctly modeled bomber airframe. Then you have ,as you mentioned, 2 pilots with 20 kills in 2 frames. How unrealistic is that? Bomber pilots always get the short end of the stick where dammage model is concerned. 5 hits, the whole tail falls off, or the wings come flying off  ect ect ect. There is no model for things like flying a fighter at 20k+ in freezing temperatures where getting on the slow 6 of a bomber would bash a fighter with so much turbulence that it would be too uncontrollable to shoot anything. Buff tuff?  hehe, imo thats an ongoing bandaid. I think that if the ammount of work was put into a decent dammage model that was necessary to make attacks realistically marginally survivable, that there would be many more bomber pilots.What do we like? Simple. Long well planned missions ,with escorts preferably, that we have a slight chance to survive. Do we expext no losses? Absolutely not. In all 3 sims, I have experienced such well thought out and organized attacks on very large bomber formations by very excelent squadrons that deserved to get kills..and many times did. But when an aircraft can launch from a field that your bombing and within 10 minutes or so pull up like he's refeuling and kill you with 6 or 7 hits...its crap.

 AI:
  I have no problem with AI doing ground resupply, ships and railroads ect.Hey, thats great...gives evreyone else something to go after. And I would have no problem with with AI bomber formations as long as its done as a place holder in leu of actually researching and developing a decent bomber FM/DM with the hopes of actually having mass human formations eventually carrying out the task.



blkmgc