Author Topic: Siaf_csf which countries ere you talking about... (Read 1374 times)

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #30 on:** September 20, 2003, 06:09:59 PM »

You see Boroda that argument is pointless with me because, unlike you and your constant excuses and justifications of Stalin and his buddies, I have come to terms that my nation had done very bad wrong things in the past and especially during the time of the Ustasha in WW2 - so frankly what you just said simply doesnt matter and does not effect me in any partiucularly hurtful way.

But for the sake of argument I am to suppose you are stating it was OK for the Swiss to finance the nazi war machine in its invasion and rape of your country Russia among others simply on account of the fact that you dont like me because I'm Croatian?

That would be pretty stupid of you wouldnt it Boroda?

Boroda · « **Reply #31 on:** September 20, 2003, 06:22:48 PM »

Grun, accusing anyone for belonging to a certain nation or living in a certain country is stupid. That's what I want to show you.

As for you personally - every time I see you posting crap like this I remember you saying that genocide of 350000 people in Srpska Krajna was only a "nessesary measure"...

And I have to say again: Stalin was one of the greatest politicians of XX century. If you understand what I mean.

If you think that I am happy about my family members being repressed or executed in the 30s - I pity your intellectual capabilities.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #32 on:** September 20, 2003, 06:30:57 PM »

I cant even comment on what you said. Its really pointless but hell... I dont think the simple fact that "only" about 200,000 died in the civil war most being killed by the serbs in bosnia would really matter to you and your fantasies of evil croatians... You do understand that it was the serb armies that marched through the other republics, and that it was the serb dominated jna that distributed weapons to serb death squads to kill their neighbors and so on on. And lets not forget the exuses you make for milisevic about kosovo and so on and so on and on and on on and n on and on...

Dont even bother responding Boroda - why waste time with you when you are mad and stupid. You just basdically said it was ok for the Swiss to finance the nazi invasion of the USSR simply because you dont like me on account of my croatian background - yoiu do understand how mad that makes you appear and how unrealistic and obsessive your attitude towards me being croatian is?

Just go away you wierd freak...

Maverick · « **Reply #33 on:** September 20, 2003, 06:33:29 PM »

Boroda, Since you think stalin was such a great politician you must be positively in conniptions over ghengis khan's politics.

I imaging you look up to sadumb hussein as well. Same cut of cloth from all the mass graves and "cleansing" that went on.

miko2d · « **Reply #34 on:** September 20, 2003, 09:12:43 PM »

I guess Boroda ment that that Stalin was an extremely capable politician.

Obviously Mav. does not know much about Ghengis Khan's politics, which probably helps him in arguments with like ignorant people - why search for facts if you can just imagine them.

Ghengis Khan was conquering a huge empire with a few thousand mongols but mostly an army consisting of "conquered" people. He could not afford much resistance and made examples of any attempt to do so. Much overblown examples, btw - even in those times they realised that you do not have to kill a lot of prospectiev taxpayers to scare ignorants elsewhere. You can kill a few and just say that you've killed everybody. Who the heck was going to know in medieveal times?*

He always offered surrender and treated surrendered very well - leaving them political power or even befrieending them, not interfering with religion, etc. and just demanding tax and unmolested passage for traders.
Because of that fighting disappeared, military expences were reduced and peacefull trade flourished.
Russia lost quite a lot of people during the conquest because inept rulers were too arrogant to surrender to numerically inferior attackers but too incompetent to defend their cities. Still, it is much fewer people than would have died in interncine fighting over the centuries when Russia was forcefully united in peace under the Mongol rule.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*For example the famous russian victory at Kulikov field saw 150,000 russians defeat 300,000 mongols with the combining losses of about 400,000 (in 1472?) . Of course the modern historians who measured the field, counted the throughput on the known number of briges, counted logistics and searched for corpses swear that there could not have been more than 30-50,000 total combatants there and only a few hundred appear to have been killed...

miko

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #35 on:** September 20, 2003, 10:06:16 PM »

The Mongols were clever fellows and had the largest land empire in history includion of course huge swathes of current day russia including even in the west, I do wonder what Boroda's slant on that part of Russian history is.

Boroda · « **Reply #36 on:** September 21, 2003, 10:17:49 AM »

Grun, you get offended when I say something about Croatians, while keep on bashing people for their countries/nations? Strange.

On this board you are the person who spoke too much things not suitable for sane person. Including justification of genocide and praising Chechen terrorists. You supported people who want to blow up MY house!

Yes, if you want - I am from barbaric communist orthodox country, and I am proud of it. Just look at my avatar, it is here mostly to make people like you angry. But unlike most of the people attacking me here you probably know that hammer and a sickle are not traditional Russian weapons.

As for being Croatian - man, I root (is it a right word?) for Croatian team in almost every international sport. We are Slavs, and we can easily understand each other's language. I am so angry sometimes only because I see a usual Western media attitude, as old as the first Crusade.

Miko, did you read Lev Gumilev's works? The key books on Mongol history are "Ancient Russia and the Great Steppe" and "Quest for an imaginary kingdom" ("Äðåâíÿÿ Ðóñü è Âåëèêàÿ Ñòåïü" è "Â ïîèñêàõ âûìûøëåííîãî öàðñòâà"). The latter is dedicated to relations between different Christian confessions. His main work is called "Ethnogenesis and the Biosphere of Earth" ("Ýòíîãåíåç è áèîñôåðà Çåìëè").

Gumilev's idea is that there was no "Tatar yoke", and there was only one Horde state, including Russian principates. BTW, Kulikovo field battle was in fact a fight with rebels against Horde, where Russian troops helped legimate Tatar "government".

BTW, the main reason for destruction of Ryazan', Vladimir and other Russian cities was that local princes executed Tatar ambassadors, committing the worst crime - betrayal of confidets (bad words here, in Russian it's "ïðåäàòåëüñòâî äîâåðèâøèõñÿ"). Batiy was only a Tatar prince who "travelled" with his guards (400 Mongol warriors) and 5000 other troops. They came to Russian cities only to ask for some food for horses...

Maverick · « **Reply #37 on:** September 21, 2003, 01:35:57 PM »

miko, your own post validates my comparison with stalin and gengis khan. Both annexed land using force, both used the subject people to enforce their agenda, both "made examples" of those who resisted. Yep I can see how they weren't alike. You'll have to forgive me if I don't see that as a particularly good style of politics to admire. You are welcome to join boroda in that regard if you wish.

Before you bring up the old west in America, yep we did similar things. It was not a good example of what should be done. We try to insure we don't repeat that type of action. "Manifest Destiny" is no longer a valid doctrine.

Copied from another thread.
miko you are welcome to put me on your ignore list. Your opinions, particularly of me, are of no real concern of mine. I have a sufficient opinion of you that needs no further modification irregardless of your pseudo-intellectual arguements. Have a nice day.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #38 on:** September 21, 2003, 02:33:16 PM »

Boroda I ont get offended if say true things like that many croatians were evil Ustase nazi types during WW2 that commited awful atrocities. Of course many were also partizans fighting the nazias too. But when you start blatantly lying that Croatians killed 350,000 people during a quick attack in a military operation coordinated with NATO and planned by the US military advisorrs then I will call you on it. Thats simply a rediculous lie that shows your bias and hatred of croatians.

As for the Chechens I have no special love for the terrorists but frankly I think it was beyond idiotic and beyond barbaric the way you guys leveled grozny in a fasion unseen since the terror bombings of WW2. If thtas the way you guys wanna wage a "anti terrorist" operation then so be it - but dont come here whining for sympathy when some of those guys wanna get back a bit at you. And dont even try to make a comparision with 911.

I dont find your hammer sicle avatar cute at all - hundreds of milluions of dead and billions spirttually dead are all that symboy means over the past century.

Angus · « **Reply #39 on:** September 22, 2003, 04:20:00 AM »

Iceland would perhaps be a candidate?
Of course we stole women from the British isles a thousand years ago, - however we repaid with fish to Britain in WW2 thereby feeding their war machine, so I wonder.....

AHGOD · « **Reply #40 on:** September 22, 2003, 11:13:18 AM »

Greenland. Who wants to fight for that POS?