Author Topic: SSO - Husky Frame 3 - Axis thoughts  (Read 525 times)

Offline LLv34_Camouflage

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SSO - Husky Frame 3 - Axis thoughts
« on: September 21, 2003, 04:37:40 PM »
Hello Gents and Ladies!

Thanks to all the brave axis pilots who fought valiantly against an overwhelming enemy.  Both of our attack groups got through without enemy intervention, well done!  Unfortunately we were unable to stop the enemy attacks and took heavy losses while attempting to do so.

The last frame was obviously a crushing defeat for the Axis and I'd like to put some thought into why it happened. Don't take this as a whine or a complaint against squadops, squadrons, or individual persons. I only wrote these observations so that someone could maybe learn something from the experience. :)


1. Numbers

The Allies had 48 planes:
27 SpitfireIX's
11 P51B's
10 Typhoons


The Axis had 32 planes:
12 Me110G2's
11 Me109G2's
6 C205's
3 FW190A5's

The Axis were badly outnumbered. Moments before the start, one of the two attack squadrons and two of the three defense squadrons had showed up with half of their strength. Therefore the rest of the squads had to stretch really thin to fulfill their duties.

Now, looking at the logs, I can see that most squads did eventually show up with enough pilots. Unfortunately I didn't notice the numbers as the event began, I was too busy rearranging everything.  I thought that the squads were less than full strength. This explains the large amount of 110s, our fighters were badly outnumbered (38vs20).  I would like to request that the pilots show up atleast 15 minutes early from now on!

Most importantly, the small numbers in each of the defensive fighter squadrons lead to the fact that many pilots flew alone or in small groups, making it difficult to have a well concentrated defense.  However, I must take most of the blame for this, because I did not stress the importance of flying together or order the pilots/squadrons to do so. My apologies!

Due to all this, the allies managed to establish a significant numerical superiority over the target fields, the few axis fighters could only watch from distance as the fields were trashed.


2. Planeset

The planeset greatly favoured the allies. It was clear that the high altitude performance would be the thing that would matter. Attacking the enemy without the altitude advantage is suicide. The axis fighters could not climb as high as the allied could. The allies were always above the axis.

The SpitIX, which the allied mostly used, is the best high altitude fighter of the planeset.  It is faster, more maneuverable, handles significantly better and has more firepower than any axis fighter. Also the P51b is faster and climbs better.  Against these planes, the 109G2, 205 or 190A5 have little chance at high altitude.

What this means is that we had to avoid fighting.  The allied had such a fighter umbrella over the targets that we simply could not engage the strike aircraft below. The higher enemies would have eaten us alive. "Forcing the fight low" doesnt work when the enemy totally controls the airspace above you.

The planeset disadvantage was known from the beginning and I have nothing against that.  But therefore I put an emphasis on the attack missions - sinking the enemy fleets. However, we hit the wall there as well. A wall of triple-a:


3. Fleet composition and AAA lethality

Unfortunately, the setup was a bit challenging for the ship sinking duty. Each of the shipgroups had multiple CVs or Battlecruisers. On top of that, the AAA lethality was set to 1.0, same as in the Main Arena.  Attacking shipgroups like this is suicide, like the event showed.  Only one of 12 jabos made it back, most were shot down by fleet ack. But nevertheless, one battlecruiser was sunk. Well done IHGrippr!



Once again, a big thanks to the Axis pilots who did their best in these circumstances.

Well done Allies, you whipped us good! :)

Comments, thoughts?

Camo
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Offline Squire

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SSO - Husky Frame 3 - Axis thoughts
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2003, 05:48:27 PM »
I know the #s thing can really get out of wack sometimes...you deserved more pilots than what you had.

Also its hard to defend and attack all the assigned targets with only 5 squads.

I had a similar problem in frame 1 of this series as CO. We defended the ports and attacked two targets, but as a result, were too spread out over the primary target. We also had the #s disadvantage in frame 1, with the LW almost entirely in 190s and 109s.

Frame 2 was 30 Allied to 46 LW...frame 3 #s but reversed sides.

Its hard to predict turnout...and therefore hard to modify orders to adjust to that when there is so little time at frame start, I know the feeling.

As for the planeset, S.Os. are WW2 and there are events where one side will have an advantage, no question of that, but it is part of the game in these. I remember having a rough ride as the LW in the Normandy setup some time back, and flying Hurricanes in BoB setups.

If one side is able to concentrate the fighters, they usually win, thats what I have found.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2003, 09:52:47 AM by Squire »
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Offline lucull

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SSO - Husky Frame 3 - Axis thoughts
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2003, 07:29:41 PM »
Numbers are a probleme, but something which is hard to prevend if several squads have a low turnout on one side.
I hope that the axis still had fun.

The time issue has different reasons. Some people like to stay as long as possible in the MA, don't like waiting and just want to log in and take off, but personally I think, that it happened too many times that sunday SOps started later like 5, 10 or 15min. People get used to it and show up just later. Then they get surprised by blkKnit as setup CM who starts right on time.

[Warloc (allied CiC) didn't show up, skull12 took the job (big ), but no impact as everybody just followed warloc orders. This went quite smooth.]

Frankly, this is how it should be. Start the event in time and people will learn to be in time.

In a squad event it shouldn't be a problem as we have no walkons. Eventho half of my squad has to learn being 15min before scheduled time too, we will point it out more for the next series.;)
With 4 tiffies (T-10) it's hard to attack a field and kill hangars and fuels, with 10 tiffies (T+5) it's fun. :D

Offline 214thCavalier

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SSO - Husky Frame 3 - Axis thoughts
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2003, 07:47:31 PM »
Lucull the simple fact that the entire Axis side managed the grand total of 1 thats ONE kill and ZERO assists should give you an idea of how much "fun" we had.

I suspect its the lack of "fun" thats killing us.

Offline lucull

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SSO - Husky Frame 3 - Axis thoughts
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2003, 07:55:54 PM »
I didn't check the logs cav.
I died in acks (like 2 times in Okinawa and last frame SOps). Then I flew in ramzey's cockpit, we didn't saw many axis. Single 205 and a 110 otr A6. Also not that much. ;)

However, I agree with you. SSO has many very frustrated people and low numbers since ages. Only 1 or 2 bigger squads quit and this event is dead IMO.

Offline bozon

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SSO - Husky Frame 3 - Axis thoughts
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2003, 08:08:22 PM »
yep, spits were racing each other to catch that single bandit that dared to enter icon range.
flying around with the hands in the pockets isn't much fun either, I really wanted more bandits.

not much we can do about numers fluctuations.

The setup was fine and the short icon range prevent 30k fighters from covering low alt jabos - they have to come down to ID the targets.

Bozon
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Offline BlauK

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SSO - Husky Frame 3 - Axis thoughts
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2003, 01:01:18 AM »
Just a suggestion concerning the numbers.

I have understood that the CO:s get orders from CM... Should there be a set of orders which can be suited to the numbers situation...

-Orders if you outnumber enemy more than 3:2

-Orders if ratio is between 2:3 and 3:2

-Orders if you are outnumbered more than 2:3


Maybe the orders the CO:s get are already just suggestions, but to me it seems that CO:s will naturally try to complete all tasks. Should this responsibility be laid on CMs or COs?

For example in this last frame it might have been better if Axis had not sent any jabo groups to those 2 groups of 20 ships at all and had concentrated on defending the coast line.

Well.. just thoughts and guesses :)


  BlauKreuz - Lentolaivue 34      


Offline Gremlin

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SSO - Husky Frame 3 - Axis thoughts
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2003, 07:55:40 AM »
I dont think the numbers we had for this frame made it fun for anyone (allied or axis).  But ya know 'c'est la vie'.  We axis cant complain if our guys dont show.  I led a squadron of 205s to a horrible slaughtering, (6 205s Vs more spits and tiffies than I could count), simply because we were the only  axis squadron in a position to even attempt to engage them.

I dont think the problem is with the event per-se.  IMHO opinion the onus lies with the squad COs, to get their guys to show.  Too often I see squad COs complaining because they either dont get they assignment they would prefer or that the side cm asks them to do a 'not so glamourous' job.

What I am asking here is for the squad COs to renew efforts to build up the SSO again.  Its a great event, Stop knocking it, build it!

Offline lucull

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SSO - Husky Frame 3 - Axis thoughts
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2003, 10:09:59 AM »
I think I'm not alone when I say, that lower numbers since the beginning of this year, the pauses for scenarios, the cancellation of SSO series and some inter squad problems is what several people made frustrated and spoiled their fun. I count myself to one of them.

Indeed, it's a squads event and it's up to us to make it more fun. Getting more squadmates into SSO is what every squad has to do on his own, but I don't think that lower numbers caused the problem, but problems caused low numbers, which caused more problems.

But well, this doesn't mean that we shouldn't listen to people that are frustrated and their reasons for that. Some things have already changed, but a frame like this, can easily nullify the efforts.

Offline Tilt

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SSO - Husky Frame 3 - Axis thoughts
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2003, 11:24:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lucull

Indeed, it's a squads event and it's up to us to make it more fun. Getting more squadmates into SSO is what every squad has to do on his own,


Agreed...............
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Offline AndyH

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SSO - Husky Frame 3 - Axis thoughts
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2003, 04:55:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BlauK

I have understood that the CO:s get orders from CM... Should there be a set of orders which can be suited to the numbers situation...



This could be implemented very easily, just drop one offensive objective off the side with low numbers.

If we did this last night the Axis could have launched more fighters.