Impact of Strat Targets

[iculus]

How much does destroying specific strat targets, such as ammo factory, effect the enemy?

[214CaveJ]

It can have a devastating effect.

Tonight, after a sneak attack on field one and capturing it we launched 17s to the bishcuit city.  After about 15 minutes or so we had every building in thier city down.  It was completely flat.  Then we turned our attention to the HQ building and the factories, and then to the supplies at the airfields.

Conversing with one bishcuit pilot via a private channel the biscuits were w/o radar for 2.5 hours while the city and hq building rebuilt.  

HT was saying something about the multiplier being 4 if a strat target was totally destoyed, which thier radar outage shows.  30min standard rebuild time plus the 2 hours (30min x 4modifier) since the city was totally flat when the HQ went down.  If the same multiplier of 4 applies to the base supply rebuild time if the factory is destroyed 100%, then I think the total time you can knock supplies out at airfields is 4.5 hours (assuming you flatten city 100%, then factory 100%, then that item at airfields).  Please correct me if I'm wrong HT/Pyro.

All in all, I must say the strat model is looking good IMO.  The sneak attack on F1 was outstanding, and the fierce fighting right after the capture of field 1 was unbelievable.  Birds dropping left and right.  And thanks to Sabre, Jarbo, Gronk, Dozz and Buhdman for answering the call and signing on when I got the crazy notion to try the sneak attack then explore the strat model =)

(my apologies if I got any of the callsigns wrong =)

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Air power is a thunderbolt launched from an egg shell invisibly tethered to a base.         -  Hoffman Nickerson

[Minotaur]

Which bases are adjacent to HQ?

Mino

[Nash]

A sneak attack it certainly was. By flying off the map for the entire commute and popping up 1 grid space out of F1, it left very little (too little) time to react. You were invisible to everyone until norden (30k+).

Which leaves me to think that basically surrounding an edge of the map field with *all* of the strategic targets leaves them far to vulnerable. By the time the fighters got to F1 there were wave after wave of 17's heading out for 10 minute hops that basically wiped out everything Bish.

Was a great attack Cave.. I just think that some more thought might be put into the placement of strategic targets... That or being able to see enemy counters off the map somehow.

[iculus]

Thanks....  I really like how targets are more difficult to find than in WB where they make it real obvious

Nash, Maybe a 50,000 ft. brick wall around the perimeter of the map will fix that bug  

IC

[This message has been edited by iculus (edited 12-05-1999).]

[Fishu]

Nash: there is also one problem, just needs couple fighters to ruin up whole sneak attack from corner, usually you don't see enough large formations that could perhaps survive through, not to mention that these fields are impossible to close(!!), which makes then real hard when they can get unlimited planes from the field (sucks dont it?)

[214CaveJ]

off the map... hmmmmm
I've seen red counter markers in the same area we flew through going down on other nights, so I figured ya'll could see us over there but figured (hoped) everyone was too interested in the furball.

We had 3 goons with us on that raid, which I think was key to getting f1, along with excellent manuever planning by the gooney drivers so they hit field almost simultaneously.  There were 2 birds on the runway starting to roll as the goons appeared, and a 109 and a spit chasing my 17 near field level when they came in.

We tried this the night before, with only 1 goon, and Hollywd just happened to be in the right place at the right time.  After it was said and done, and he had spoiled the raid, I asked him how he'd come to be there.  He said he had gone to f1 and was in the hanger debating aircraft when he saw the goon unload the drunks, so he grabbed a bird, spun the engine, and prayed he could get up in time to stop the capture, which he did.

I understand your point about the location of the strat targets nash, especially if we were indeed invisible for our run south.  Though I haven't tested it, someone said if you tried to fly outside the area enclosed in the clipboard you would get dropped.  Maybe the goon formation being 50-75ft off the deck effected it somehow?  dinnae, but it sure was fun =)

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Air power is a thunderbolt launched from an egg shell invisibly tethered to a base.         -  Hoffman Nickerson

[Rojo]

You got all the call signs spot on, 214CaveJ. Hard to believe 35 minutes of flying level and slow could be so much fun.  We flew the entire flight at 50 to 100 feet altitude, while the ack killing flight of 2 B-17's climbed to 30K.  While we were not showing up on anyone's radar, the buffs at 30K were visible on our own radar screens; they should have at least showed up as big red squares in the upper corner of the grid squares to the enemy.

I'm glad to hear all our efforts to rip the heart out of the Bishop's infrastructure had some effect on them . Frankly, I don't see it as a flaw that we were able to pull this off.  We planned carefully, took our time, and combined a bit of luck with old fashioned audacity.  In war, fortune often favors the bold. The whole thing could have been spoiled by just a couple of Bishops being more on the ball. As Buhdman, GronK and myself roared in on the field, there were several enemy pilots that could have intercepted us.  We spread out and approached from different directions, but there was still a chance we could have been taken out. About 20 seconds from my drop, a Bishop Spit flew past me at a range of 1.5. He was too fixated on chasing CaveJ. I also passed directly under a Bish Pony that never even bothered to look down.

By the way, CaveJ, I and the Buccaneers salute your inspired leadership on this raid. It was a blast!

Sabre (a.k.a. Rojo)

[Nash]

Just to reiterate - no. Planes off the map don't show up on dar... as dots, bars or otherwise. It is not a question of Bish not being on the ball. More of having esp. I was there when it happened, and most all of our fighters were over f21 - a long way from commuting back to F7 and going to 1 to defend... unless you think we shudda augered on the spot to get to 1 asap.


I don't see it as being lucky, bold nor audacious. It was however a very nicely planned and executed attack, which took advantage of a limitation in AH. And that's perfectly ok to do in my books, as long as the limitation exists. I just think that this limitation should be adressed, along with the placement of strat targets.

So devastating was this attack that as I write this, it is a full 18 hrs later and F1 is still in Rook hands, with Bish dar and fuel hosed for most of that time. (hell, ya can practically spit on the HQ, city, refinery etc. from F1's hill)

[Minotaur]

At the time this happened did the Rocks outnumber the Bishops by any margin?

Mino

[Nash]

Hmm...not too sure, but it seemed pretty even. It's now been 24 hrs since the strike, and still F1 remains under Rook rule. Gosh... we Bish are pathetic  

[tshred]

Yes, Mino, all day rooks numbers were around 40, while the highest I ever saw bishops was around 30, and usually in the lo to mid 20's. I (and a handfull of other dedicated pilots) was flying knights. Rooks have just about outnumberd every country for the last couple weeks. While us knights continue to average the lowest numbers, occasionally we out number the bishops and sometimes the rooks, but rarely in my experience. Loyalties to countries are starting to form, and I've noticed the rooks usually have the numbers during the times I fly. I've even heard it mentioned that a lot of people are going rook to take advantage of the 'newbie' who will log on as a bishop and promptly get his but whooped, that's what I've heard, I'm not saying that is the case, please don't misunderstand me. Heck, I even saw it squeaked about on global channel, but kept checking the roster and none of the rooks attempted to balance sides. Of course us knights had about 9 people, and I was gonna switch to bishop and join the attack at F1 since the 41 rooks were ignoring my taunts on global, but decided to log instead.

Yes, the rooks had the numbers!

ts

[Dinger]

When I logged on yesterday morning (my time) immediately after the raid on f1, the balance was 50/50 rooks/bishops.  Shortly thereafter, perhaps as a reflection of the dwindling supply of resources, rooks had a majority in the arena.
Yes, I've noted this too, that of late there are an awful lot of rooks around.  I will switch sides, if only to give those folks looking for a 1v1 fight something to shoot at.
These types of raids can and are performed by any nationality, regardless of numbers.  What Mr. Shred did not mention was that, while the rooks were beating the bishop, the knights seized many important rook bases, almost unopposed.
As for flying over water, I'm all in favor of it.  A low-profile raid is supposed to be exactly that.  If you want to take the time to set one up, great.
Bombing at 30+k seems a little more problematic.  Perhaps the solution would be to install a bombsight that works great at 18k (where the flak works great too), acceptable at 25k, marginal at 30k, and not at all well above that.

[Rojo]

Nash: I'm not sure I agree with you. We were not "off the map;" we were in the white grid squares running along the edge of it.  I'm pretty sure I've seen enemy presence indicators (EPI...hey, I just coined a new acronym ) on these grid squares before. It may be that the high buffs' dots didn't show on Bishop radar screens while in this area because it is beyond radar range to any of their installations. However, as soon as they turned into Bishop territory and went feet-dry, the dots were there for all to see. Anyone who noticed them may have figured it to be just another hi-alt raid on the Bishop's city or factories. Figuring the raid to be at 30k (which was both correct and incorrect), many no doubt chose to ignore it.

As to the numbers, it's true what you say; the Rooks did (and often do) outnumber the Bishops. I have seen numerical superiority shift to any one of the three countries, but that particular night it was definitely with the rooks. I still contend the raid was unexpected, more likely to fail than succeed, and therefore audacious; it could easily have turned into a fiasco for us (as CaveJ points out, a previous attempt with only one Gooney Bird did fail). Given the flying time involved, most AH pilots don't bother to try things like this. We did, and hence were rewarded -- spectacularly.

I guess the game-play questions is, should this type of raid be possible at all? If so, should it be harder to do? If not, what's the best way to prevent it?

Sabre

[-kier-]

I don't really consider flying off the map wrong per se (after all, there would have to be limits to radar range). As long as it's allowed, it will happen. This I feel is a decision for HiTech/Pyro to make.

As for defending against the attack? Most of the time I would go for bombers every time (easy kills), but might not if I was time limited or if there was heavy escort. Sounds like it was an organized attack that worked out fine. It certainly wasn't cheating.  

Personally, I just love finding formations of buffs!