Beet1e, you got some 'splaining to do (lucy)

[Mini D]

Originally posted by beet1e
On motoring: Driving too fast is dangerous... many abide by the speed limits, but some do not. Therefore, "speed limits don't work". Ripsnort's solution - abolish speed limits so that no law is being broken.

 Actually... you're wrong.  One  solution would be to enforce the existing speed limit laws.  The G.B. solution would be to abollish driving - the only sure way to prevent speeding.

Gun control laws in Britain DO work. They just don't work perfectly. The fact that our gun laws work is why we have fewer than 100 gun deaths each year, whereas America always has many thousands - more than 13,000 in some years.

Were bobbies armed when the gun ban went into affect and are they now?  Are there more or less gun crimes or deaths per year in G.B. after they were banned?

Our criminals are no better than yours. If we were to enact the "Ripsnort Remedy" by doing away with gun control laws because they "don't work", we would have a bloodbath, and we too would have thousands of gun deaths each year instead of fewer than 100.

Really?  Is a bloodbath what you had going on prior to the strict ban?  There's history that indicates how G.B. behaves when they were allowed to own guns... none of it paints the picture you're trying to display.  A country made a unilateral decision to restrict people's ability to defend themselves based on the actions of one crazy person.  An act... btw... that hasn't really been duplicated anywhere in the world that I know of (at least... not with a gun).  Of course, machette killings in schools is on the rise... but that's a different topic for discussion.

MiniD

[Rude]

Originally posted by lazs2
They are going about the gun control issue all wrong in england...

The guns causing the problem are HANDGUNS   notice the word "hand" is first.... take away everyones hands and you will solve the handgun problem.
lazs

Sound logic....employed wisdom....very clever....let's do it.

[ra]

A country made a unilateral decision to restrict people's ability to defend themselves based on the actions of one crazy person. An act... btw... that hasn't really been duplicated anywhere in the world that I know of (at least... not with a gun).

Australia and Canada also tightened gun laws in response to a psycho killing spree.

[Godzilla]

Originally posted by beet1e
On motoring: Driving too fast is dangerous... many abide by the speed limits, but some do not. Therefore, "speed limits don't work". Ripsnort's solution - abolish speed limits so that no law is being broken.

Gun control laws in Britain DO work. They just don't work perfectly. The fact that our gun laws work is why we have fewer than 100 gun deaths each year, whereas America always has many thousands - more than 13,000 in some years.

 

beetle did the UK ever have more than about 100-200 gun deaths a year .......before the knee-jerk ban on handguns? If not, then what exactly has the gun ban acomplished?

And the speed limit analogy is a bad one. You think banning guns is similar to having a speed limit? Just because people speed or drink and drive  doesnt mean you ban cars. (or maybe it should in the UK to be consistant with the logic of a gun ban)

Wouldnt you think that laws could be made to make gun crime illegal and not the gun itself, similar to drunk driving laws and cars?

Tell us why guns, which have never been responsible for more than a hundred or so deaths in the UK, are banned ( after 1 guy killed 16 people ) yet you don't feel the same need to ban cars or alcohol, which combine to kill many thousands a year?

You might say that guns have no redeeming values or legitimate use. Same would apply to alcohol. Then you may argue that alcohol itself cant kill someone.... the same applies to guns and cars.

[Replicant]

I dunno what all the fuss is about.  I'd say the majority feel pretty safe in the UK, I know I do especially when I know that everyones not carrying guns.  Guns are so rare that if you do get shot then you probably would have been killed by something else if it wasn't a gun.

I honestly think I'd be more scared if people did carry guns; I simply wouldn't trust people with them!  As for pointy things, well if I had a choice of killing someone with a knife or a gun I'd choose the gun as it's easier and more 'detached'.  With a knife you got to get up close and personal, not a nice thought at the best of times.

Gangs are arming themselves in the UK to counter other gangs who seem to model themselves on drug-dealing US film characters.  It's all to do with image and pretending they're tough hiding behind a gun.  

Some men get turned on by women, some men get turned on by cars, some men get turned on by guns!  Sad but true!

[ra]

Some men get turned on by women, some men get turned on by cars, some men get turned on by guns!

All together now.....

[Yeager]

Its not about fear...I LOVE MY GUNS!!!!!!


and Im not afraid.  just stating a preference if there was to be fear.

Nice try though

[Dune]

"I believe all women should wear tight clothes and all men should carry powerful handguns."
- Calvin of "Calvin and Hobbes"

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Dune
I live in the 5th largest city in the US (Phoenix)  

Phoenix is not the 5th largest US city. New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston and Philadelphia are all larger than Phoenix.  Any other well researched facts you want to dazzle us with?

Mr. Toad! "What are the latest "sharp instrument" numbers?" You should know. You're in the industry that banned sharp instruments.

MiniD - as far as I know, we were never allowed to own handguns. It was never like the US where you can walk into a store (or even a bank - lol) and come away with a gun with an effective range of 400+ yards. I've lived in Britain all my life except for about 3 years. I've never known anyone who owned a handgun at any time. Shotguns are fairly commonplace though. Bobbies on the beat don't routinely carry guns even today. That is left to the discretion of the Chief Constable of their force. My local police force - Thames Valley Police - is the largest in the country (I think that's in terms of the area they cover, not # of officers) and they are not armed as a matter of routine.

The bloodbath I fear if guns were legalised would be something like 1500-3000 deaths a year. Many of those killed would indeed be drug dealers and other criminals, but many more innocent bystanders would be killed. Those are people like the teenage girls that were having a party at their hair salon in Birmingham last year and were caught in the crossfire between two rival drug gangs, and the seven year old girl who was shot dead on a street in NW London last month. Those kinds of fatalities would increase 20-fold - not something the British public wants to see.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by beet1e
It was never like the US where you can walk into a store (or even a bank - lol) and come away with a gun with an effective range of 400+ yards.

Just a small aside...

The scene from BFC you refer to was a contrivance, filmed with actors.  Artistic license was stretched to a greater degree than is customary for a documentary.  

While the bank in the film did give away guns, they were in the form of certificates redeemable at the local sporting goods store.

[Dune]

Originally posted by beet1e
Phoenix is not the 5th largest US city. New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston and Philadelphia are all larger than Phoenix.  Any other well researched facts you want to dazzle us with?

Phily was bigger by roughly 120,000 in July.  However, in the next year, Phoenix will pass Phily in size: http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/2003/07/09/news/local/6262383.htm  

BTW, is that the best you can come up with?  All the other numbers and facts I've thrown out and I get this?  A snide remark as if this invalidates anything else I've said.  Tell me, does it in any way make you feel better since you've lost the debate?

[Replicant]

Originally posted by ra
All together now.....

It's okay RA we don't want to take your toys, er guns, away!

[drone]

Well if the actions of the PEOPLE who are the criminals were taken into account when they were caught and the punish made to fit the crime when convicted, then guns themselves wouldnt be an issue..

 As mentioned by a few in the previous posts society itself and the way it deals with crime and criminals are at the root of the problem......Not weapons themselves ,,,,ya I know the old adage "guns dont kill people-people kill people" is so true that when  saying that, antigun jerks start screaming the minute you kill their aurgument with it.....

If responsibility were part of the responce to criminal acts then gun control would be a non issue...

[miko2d]

Replicant: So for now we just have to put up with the occasional gun death - there maybe a lot of incidents, i.e. armed robberies etc., but there's not a great many deaths luckily!

 If your ancestors did not resist Germany in WWII, you would just have had to put up with a mild occupation, occasional jew or communist death, maybe a lot of minor oppression/abuse incidents, but there would have not been a great may deaths...

 miko

[Curval]

Originally posted by miko2d
[ If your ancestors did not resist Germany in WWII, you would just have had to put up with a mild occupation, occasional jew or communist death, maybe a lot of minor oppression/abuse incidents, but there would have not been a great may deaths...

 miko

What a very odd thing to say Miko.