Bear Mauling Kills Grizzly Advocate

[miko2d]

Oh, wow, that would be like a proponent of a capitalism to lose money on a business deal. Or for a promoter of sports to break a leg during a game...


mrblack: You cant blame a dumb animal for doing what he is programed to do.

 Well, at least we can blame dumb people for shooting their mouth about things they know little about...

 Bears as well as lions, tigers and leopards do not normally attack people who do not appear to threaten them or their cubs - no matter how little habitat they have left.
 Killing and eating people for a bear is not like swimming for fish or flying for a bird.
 It's more like for a trained proficient sniper to start shooting innocent people on the street.

 An exceptional wild animal that has attacked a human and tasted human flesh is very likely to seek out and attack other humans, rather that chase hard-to-catch deer or rabbits.
 Such animal must absolutely be tracked down and killed as soon as possible.

 Check "Man-Eaters of Kumaon" and other books by Jim Corbett - facinating read about the animals turned man-killers.

 miko

[Dune]

Unfortunately, it's the normally that gets you eaten.  This guy had obviously spent a lot of time around bears and they acted as they normally do.  However, as Mother Nature is wont to do, this bear decided to do the not so normal thing.  

Wild animals, and even the occasional housepet, will, on the 100th encounter, do the opposite of what they've done the 99 previous times.

BTW, Miko, you need to get yourself a copy of "The Man-Eater of Tsavo".  Peter Capstick has a put a great copy out of the story that was turned into "The Ghost and the Darkness".  Of course any of Capstick's own books are fantastic for reading about what makes an animal go rogue.  During his time in Africa, Capstick has been sent to kill a number of man-eaters, from lions and leapards to elephants and crocs.  Capstick also has a wonderful writing style.

[Pooh21]

Originally posted by miko2d

 An exceptional wild animal that has attacked a human and tasted human flesh is very likely to seek out and attack other humans, rather that chase hard-to-catch deer or rabbits.
 Such animal must absolutely be tracked down and killed as soon as possible.



 miko [/B]

So its ok to kill animals who kill humans. But we can rehabilitate humans who do the same thing?

[miko2d]

Pooh21: So its ok to kill animals who kill humans. But we can rehabilitate humans who do the same thing?

 A human that would kill or maim another human in cold blood premeditated incident (not in self-defence or temporary insanirty like fit of jealousy) is much like any other animal that is not supposed to attack humans.

 There is a valid argument towards rehabilitation of humans because they differ from animals in one important respect. They have rational mind that can be affected by reasoning/information, unlike the mind of an animal. Humans were known to drastically change their values and character under influence of new knowlege/experience.

 Not that I agree to such argument, mind you - just admit that it is a valid topic to discuss. Some rare humans can theoretically be rehabilitated - certainly not in our "correctional facilities".

 Human criminal/violent behavior is predominantly determined by high degree of phsychoticism, combined with low intelligence - both highly inheritable genetically-determined traits. Those can be ameliorated considerably during the upbringing - provided an expert care is present.
 How the heck would one "rehabilitate" a formed grown-up socopath that has already commited violence?

 miko

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by miko2d
An exceptional wild animal that has attacked a human and tasted human flesh is very likely to seek out and attack other humans, rather that chase hard-to-catch deer or rabbits.
 Such animal must absolutely be tracked down and killed as soon as possible.

 miko

I believe the term is "destroyed". All because some nitwit wants to diddle with them.

[Gadfly]

I mean come on people the poor dam things barely ahve any habitat left any more thank to mans developing of the lands.
 That is not factually true.  The range of the Grizzley is pretty large, though not as large as it was prior to people increasing THEIR range.

Ask Roy how much you can trust a wild animal, even if it has never been in the wild.

[miko2d]

Gadfly: Ask Roy how much you can trust a wild animal, even if it has never been in the wild.

 Some animals can be domesticated. Those animals have very specific traits.
 - They are herd/pack animals with strict natural hierarchy;
 - They have stable disposition - not prone to automatically bolt and smash themselves like gaselles or attack in blind rage as cape buffalos.

 Domesticating such animals is simple - a human just assumes a role of a pack leader/alpha male. It is usually done with young animals - puppies, colts, but can be done to adults almost as reliably. You must overpower and convincingly dominate it once and the hierarchy is established.
 They may rarely chalenge you alpha status - especially of you went soft on them thefirst time. That's the worst mistake someone can make with wolves and some breeds of dogs. Of course some even from domesticated breeds may be just crazy/psychotic and regular rules do not apply to them, just like people.

 Othe animals like cats, tigers, etc. are individualistic and cannot be domesticated, only tamed. They can attack an "owner" whenever they decide to do so, there are no built-in mechanisms preventing that.

 One can usually mistreat a dog without fear of attack or of him leaving but not a cat.

 miko

[mrblack]

Miko your above statement Is right on the money:D

[lord dolf vader]

dead on but i would argue that we are amung the natural prey of bears.


rabitts have no social structue im aware of but didnt exist outside of man till breed from wild hare.

do you consider them tamed or domesticated?

[Dune]

Same goes for dogs.  Although I would submit that rabbits were first domesticated for food and not pets.

[Sixpence]

"- They are herd/pack animals with strict natural hierarchy"

I believe lions have something similar to this called a pride. You can make a general assessment about a species, but there are exceptions. Like certain breeds of dogs who have a reputation of turning on their owners or "snapping".

We have a cat that has become part of our family hierarchy. He will attack any dog that comes close to the house. He also brings me many gifts(that I don't want). He seems to know his place in the family and accepts it. So I would consider him domesticated.

[Biggles]

Originally posted by mrblack
LOL I would not put myself in a position of having to defend myself agaist a bear!
In other words I would leave him to the very Dam little habitat He has left thanks to Us humans.

I agree! Leave them alone and don't bother what's left of their habitat!

[Gadfly]

That is why I call it a wild animal, Miko.

[miko2d]

lord dolf vader: dead on but i would argue that we are amung the natural prey of bears.

 I've rented a condo for two months this summer in Hunter - a ski resort in Catskill mountains. Familes - mostly russian - bring their kids with grandparents there to escape New Yorks oppressive heat and humidity.

 There was a mother-bear with 3 cubs that constantly walked around condomuniums - scavenging garbage containers. BTW, I never thought a bear could have three cubs. Once she even showed up with four but usually only with three. She would walk feets from playing toddlers without a problem. That does not prove any general rules but bears do not appear to hunt people or attack them even when they have ample opportunity.


rabitts have no social structue im aware of but didnt exist outside of man till breed from wild hare.
do you consider them tamed or domesticated?

 I did not know rabbits were bred. Their social instincts likely have not changed. I believe they are individualistic and would fight among themsleves if confined into the same cage - even killing each other.

 Theoretically, rabits are tamed rather than domesticated. Practically it makes very little difference considering their size, shape, temperament and role.
 I would not want to mess with a buffalo-sized rabbit...


Sixpence: I believe lions have something similar to this called a pride.

 Pride is not exactly the same as herd or pack.
 Pride is a family with young males subjugated to a patriarch and chased away once they become adults - to lead individual lives.
 A male lion can take over a pride but not join it, as far as I know.

 miko