Author Topic: Snap Views... A request. (Read 210 times)

lemur · « **on:** May 18, 2001, 03:54:00 AM »

While the current view system, with it's ability to save head positions, is great, I still have one small peeve.

Every pilot is a Linda Blair clone and people can check their 6 way too fast.

Basically, the visibility limitations (due to rear armor) on certain planes is completely negated by the ability to instantly snap your head around, up forward and up and over.

Here's my request: Keep the view system (with savable head positions) intact. Just add a delay for moving the point of view around. Basically model that the pilot has to adjust his seating position, etc. and that this can take some time.

Rotating your head is a very quick operation. Scootching your butt forward, leaning over and pushing your head up foot isn't. Especially in a cramped cockpit. It might take a full second or two.

Now try all this when you're pulling 3 gs.

Why not model this? Pilots go on and on about how terrific the visibility was in this plane, or that plane. And how important it was. So why not model this? Make it so it takes a full second to get into an extreme position. Make it so you can't get to these positions at all under higher G loads.

And I should add that the extra delay will only be a factor in dogfights. When you're cruising along you have plenty of spare time to check 6...

Just saying.

~Lemur

Creamo · « **Reply #1 on:** May 18, 2001, 05:15:00 AM »

Makes sense to me... I sure it's a gameplay feature HTC looked at and decided what is implemented is best for it. Certainly there has been a measure of reality removed in respect to the views. You simply could not have some of the views in the reaL planes, no way.

When Ba BA Blacksheep comes on TV, I always thought that the cockpit on the F4U just swallowed the pilot. And now I noticed his rear view is cover covered by a huge headrest. Kinda like in this photo.

Looking back he would see very little, and Im sure they did alot of zig zagging and looking back to check 6.

Tuomio · « **Reply #2 on:** May 18, 2001, 05:39:00 AM »

*starts yak-9u*
No head position saving!

Otter · « **Reply #3 on:** May 18, 2001, 09:16:00 PM »

<spews green vomit>

NO

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Otter

Lephturn · « **Reply #4 on:** May 18, 2001, 09:32:00 PM »

The view system isn't there just to simulate realistic head positions. We are dealing with a much more restricted viewing area than in real life, so you have to allow for that. Give me full, 180 degree, realistic display technology, and then I'll gladly accept realistic head position limits.

Since we are stuck with a 90 degree field of view jammed into a small, square, flat monitor, some allowances must be made. I think the view system HTC has in Aces High is a very good compromise between usability and simulation of reality. Remember the goal here isn't to make it as difficult as possible so that nobody can play the damned game. The goal is to simulate the various attributes of WWII aircraft, and the system we have does that just fine. At the same time we have to somehow make a woefully inadequate system functional enough to use for air combat. I think the AH view system is a great compromise between these two goals, and it works out very well.

Now that's not saying there isn't room for improvement. Some sort of view switching speed limit based on G-load could add even more to that aspect of the game, without making it too dificult to use the view system effectively.

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Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer

A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com

Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH articles and training info!

[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 05-18-2001).]

Gadfly · « **Reply #5 on:** May 18, 2001, 11:00:00 PM »

May as well have invisible cockpits, using that reasoning. No Linda Blair!

Lephturn · « **Reply #6 on:** May 19, 2001, 12:01:00 PM »

That's rediculous gadfly.

There has to be limitations on the view that protray the view advantages and disadvantages of the different planes. We have that now. My point is that limiting the views to only realistic head positions only works if you have a realistic viewing setup to go with it. Since we don't have a realistic viewing setup, or anything even close, some compromise must be made. I really like the compromise that HTC has made with the AH viewing system. I'm not saying it can't be improved, I'm just pointing out the problem with trying to be super realistic when we don't have the tools to do it.

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Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer

A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com

Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH articles and training info!

Pyro · « **Reply #7 on:** May 19, 2001, 01:05:00 PM »

By that logic, a bubble canopy serves no purpose. Unless I'm wearing a high volume diving mask, my eyes can cover about 190 degrees without me even moving my head. Just because your head doesn't pivot 180 degrees doesn't mean that your vision doesn't cover that area.

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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

lemur · « **Reply #8 on:** May 19, 2001, 03:38:00 PM »

I'm not taking about field of view, I'm talking about checking 6. A 180 degree field of view doesn't help much when you've got a huge armor plate behind you.

In other words, checking your 3 and 9 o'clock views should take no time, checking your 6, on the other hand...

Plus if it's done right it would be modeled as your head snapping around reasonably quickly followed by a slow move forward and off to one side.

On bubble canopy planes, regardless of your head position setting, you're at least looking behind you right away. It'd then take a few seconds to reach the optimal position to REALLY look behind you.

On planes with lots of rear armor, you'd snap your head around, but it'd then take a few seconds to really peer behind the armor.

The extra delay wouldn't affect people who are just cruising along, but it would keep folks from checking 6 super fast during a dogfight.

Plus there'd be a similar delay when looking back at the 12 O'clock position. The head would snap forward quickly, but it'd take a moment for the POV to line up with the gunsite again.

Easy enough to see how long it takes. While you're sitting in your chair look behind yourself. Now try it again while propping yourself up a bit. Now try the same thing next time you're sitting in a car.

Takes a while to really look back. Especially if you have to crane your neck up, or have to lift yourself in your seat. Doesn't take nearly as much time to get back into your seat. Now imagine the same calesthenics at 3Gs with a full harness on...

Just saying it'd go a long way to reintroducing the limitations between planes with good rear views and without. Without making them too horrible.

~Lemur

[This message has been edited by lemur (edited 05-19-2001).]

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #9 on:** May 19, 2001, 05:21:00 PM »

I think the current view system is ok, considering the fact we dont have any periherral vision on our monitors.

Creamo · « **Reply #10 on:** May 19, 2001, 05:37:00 PM »

Granted, but if you pivot your head and look directly back behind you in most of these planes in real life like the F4U or the 109's, you see a big leather headrest or a peice of sheetmetal and rivets.

No limitation of monitors or scuba goggles, is going to change that.

I still think it all works well though anyway.

Certainly the fwd and side views cant be nearly as good as real life, and being able to pan around in a hurry is a good way to try and compensate for that.

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[This message has been edited by Creamo (edited 05-19-2001).]

StSanta · « **Reply #11 on:** May 20, 2001, 05:45:00 AM »

I'd say that even with being able to move yer head arund, AH models poor 6 vis in their planes.

Compare the G2 to the 109F8

.

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Von Santa
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"