Author Topic: The Pledge of Allegiance...  (Read 1166 times)

Offline SOB

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10138
The Pledge of Allegiance...
« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2003, 03:45:55 PM »
Yeah, kids refusing to do what their teachers tell them to do, that's a good idea.  Hell, I can just imagine the reaction had I told any of my grade school teachers I wasn't going to say the pledge.  It would've been to the principal's office with a subsequent visit to the school by my mother (who would have smacked me upside the head and told me to respect God like a good Catholic, btw :)).

"Under God" wasn't in there to begin with, so take it out.  If you feel the school should give kids time in the morning to pray, then fine.  Have 10 minutes of quiet time for the kids to sit at their desks and do whatever the hell they want.  Finish homework, read, pray, whatever.  I couldn't care less if a kid wants to wear a cross around their neck, either.  That's their choice and the school and their teachers shouldn't have anything to do with it.  I also don't think school uniforms are a good idea, for much the same reasons.

I also don't have a problem with them reciting the pledge every morning without the Under God in it (hell, it really didn't bother me all that much with Under God in it, but now that it's been brought up as an issue...).  I think trying to develop respect for one's nation is a good thing, particularly when you're still free to critisize it.

Those are my humble opinions, and just as valid and unimportant as the bible thumpers.  I'm sorry some of you hold such spite for non-believers.
Three Times One Minus One.  Dayum!

Offline midnight Target

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15114
The Pledge of Allegiance...
« Reply #31 on: October 15, 2003, 04:03:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rude
The God of our founding fathers was that of the Bible.

Seperation of church and state does not exist in the US Constitiution, but in a letter.

Just what are you so fearful of? Do you believe christians today are in favor of slavery, smuggling, brothel owning, etc?

Which of the teachings of Jesus Christ are bad for our nation and it's people? Give me some examples.


1. Separation of church and state is too in the Constitution, unless you consider the Amendments a separate document.  "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
Stating the phrase "under God" in an officially sanctioned way is a clear violation of the establishment clause.

2. The benevolence of the religion is not relevent.

Offline Sandman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17620
The Pledge of Allegiance...
« Reply #32 on: October 15, 2003, 04:30:37 PM »
Under god or not, the pledge is trite and meaningless.
sand

Offline Eagler

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18207
The Pledge of Allegiance...
« Reply #33 on: October 15, 2003, 04:40:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
Under god or not, the pledge is trite and meaningless.


to most liberals, it is these days
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


Intel Core i7-13700KF | GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite AX | 64GB G.Skill DDR5 | 16GB GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Ti Super | 850 watt ps | pimax Crystal Light | Warthog stick | TM1600 throttle | VKB Mk.V Rudder

Offline Rude

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4609
The Pledge of Allegiance...
« Reply #34 on: October 15, 2003, 04:42:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DmdNexus
>>Seperation of church and state does not exist in the US Constitiution, but in a letter.

I'm talking with an intellectual giant here.

And which letter world that be? The letter "O"? For "O"riface... as in you have no clue and are talking out of your oriface?

The Supreme court doesn't rule on matters regarding "letters."
These learned justices - mostly appointed by conservative presidents.... rule on matters concerning the US Consititution.

Which has been interpretted over the last 200 years to expressly separate the roles of church and state.

As for the bible... what's that passage? "An eye for an eye", and the "wages of sin are death", and "Lot slept with his daughters and God was pleased, and blessed him with tribe of Moab"

Oh yah the bible is a very moral book, full of adultery, slavery, child molestation, vengence, greed, every sin imaginable - Yes, I want my children reading that pornagraphic and hate filled book.


Try not to overreact in front of everyone...sheesh.

Offline Rude

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4609
The Pledge of Allegiance...
« Reply #35 on: October 15, 2003, 04:43:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SOB
Yeah, kids refusing to do what their teachers tell them to do, that's a good idea.  Hell, I can just imagine the reaction had I told any of my grade school teachers I wasn't going to say the pledge.  It would've been to the principal's office with a subsequent visit to the school by my mother (who would have smacked me upside the head and told me to respect God like a good Catholic, btw :)).

"Under God" wasn't in there to begin with, so take it out.  If you feel the school should give kids time in the morning to pray, then fine.  Have 10 minutes of quiet time for the kids to sit at their desks and do whatever the hell they want.  Finish homework, read, pray, whatever.  I couldn't care less if a kid wants to wear a cross around their neck, either.  That's their choice and the school and their teachers shouldn't have anything to do with it.  I also don't think school uniforms are a good idea, for much the same reasons.

I also don't have a problem with them reciting the pledge every morning without the Under God in it (hell, it really didn't bother me all that much with Under God in it, but now that it's been brought up as an issue...).  I think trying to develop respect for one's nation is a good thing, particularly when you're still free to critisize it.

Those are my humble opinions, and just as valid and unimportant as the bible thumpers.  I'm sorry some of you hold such spite for non-believers.


No spite here babe...I love ya man:) Now that Nexus dude.....

Offline SOB

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10138
The Pledge of Allegiance...
« Reply #36 on: October 15, 2003, 04:46:38 PM »
Yeah yeah, now that you've got AH2, any spite you may have had has been wiped from your mind.  Speaking of which, what in the hell were we just talking about?  I've gotta go fly some more.  My 'puter sucks butt, but it's still looking good.
Three Times One Minus One.  Dayum!

Offline Rude

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4609
The Pledge of Allegiance...
« Reply #37 on: October 15, 2003, 04:52:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
1. Separation of church and state is too in the Constitution, unless you consider the Amendments a separate document.  "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
Stating the phrase "under God" in an officially sanctioned way is a clear violation of the establishment clause.

2. The benevolence of the religion is not relevent.


My point exactly MT....officially sanctioned doth not a law make...the last part might be relevant...you know, the free exercise part?:)

My original point was the words seperation of church and state are not found in the constitution...I'm too tired to find which letter, perhaps Adams...not really sure, it's been awhile.

Like I said before, I don't really care what they do. In my short life this country has changed alot...some of you may think for the better, I'm of the other school....what ever in the world could be wrong with honoring your country, your parents or your neighbors?

Some of you are kinda lost I suspect...you have all the answers, you just forgot what the questions were.

I hope to meet some of you someday...will be interesting to see how much you really have to say face to face.:)

Offline SOB

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10138
The Pledge of Allegiance...
« Reply #38 on: October 15, 2003, 04:55:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rude
I hope to meet some of you someday...will be interesting to see how much you really have to say face to face.:)


Someday?  There's a perfect opportunity this weekend.  Get yer arse to Milpitas, CA!
Three Times One Minus One.  Dayum!

Offline Animal

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5027
The Pledge of Allegiance...
« Reply #39 on: October 15, 2003, 04:55:08 PM »
Nothing different from what I say here.

What makes you think those who disagree with you will be afraid to speak their mind to your face?

Offline Sandman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17620
The Pledge of Allegiance...
« Reply #40 on: October 15, 2003, 05:25:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
to most liberals, it is these days



Well... to this liberal, it pales in comparison to:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice."
sand

Offline miko2d

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3177
The Pledge of Allegiance...
« Reply #41 on: October 15, 2003, 06:17:51 PM »
Christians are idiots - those who support the "Under God" in the pledge. It is in their interest most of all to keep the state away from religion. Whatever the state touches, it eventually controls.
 Entrust them to administer to the children "the God of the Founding Fathers" and soon you will have bureaucrats telling you how you should worship. Your Christ will me multi-ethnik and sexually tolerant and the bible will be corrected according to the latest PC standards.

 What, is your religion such a complete fraud that you don't believe anybody would fall for that crap unless the government shoves it down the small children's throats?

 I see a lot of real christians - real ones, not frauds like most of you pro-pledge idiots. Those that actually live in Christ, have happy families and many children that are not screwed up. They would have nothing to do with the state or it's "education" system, they would even pay taxes assesed on them but not accept any scraps back from the state, nor interference.
 And I am not talking just about amish or some low-tech denominations. Just about people taking their faith seriously and converting otehrs by power of example, not force.

 miko

Offline YUCCA

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 985
The Pledge of Allegiance...
« Reply #42 on: October 15, 2003, 08:15:37 PM »
I am wondering why these people can't find something better to do than to pick apart the pledge of allegiance.  Im not sayin whether or not hte pledge is right or not just merely observing the whiners that our countries freedoms have produced.
     I mean wow lets change our currency from "in god we trust."  It's not like they're imposing christianity on people.  I wish some people could just stop takin their liberties granted and find a cause "worthy of their efforts."  FYI im an atheist. :)

Offline YUCCA

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 985
The Pledge of Allegiance...
« Reply #43 on: October 15, 2003, 08:17:36 PM »
Might i ask how sayin god a few times is crammin a relegion down a childs throat.  For christ sake i said the pledge for most of my childhood and im atheist.

Offline Eagler

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18207
The Pledge of Allegiance...
« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2003, 08:25:32 PM »
it isn't even about "under God" anymore

they want to do away with the allegence to the Flag, the symbol of this great Country to the rest of the world, altogether - why not? just another  state sponsored mind control right?

heck, just skip to the "morning flag burn", that is where it is headed ...
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


Intel Core i7-13700KF | GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite AX | 64GB G.Skill DDR5 | 16GB GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Ti Super | 850 watt ps | pimax Crystal Light | Warthog stick | TM1600 throttle | VKB Mk.V Rudder