Author Topic: Al Jazeera  (Read 2974 times)

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #120 on: April 13, 2004, 07:55:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Saintaw
Where do you tink you got those numbers (1,2,3...) you're using everyday?
Did you ever read the Koran? if yes, what dissociates it from religious education (such as the Christian Bible)? If not ... how would you know?


Perhaps you misread what he said, which was that extrimst islamic groups distort the Koran to suit their ends, not that all muslims are extremists or opposed to education...

Offline Naso

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« Reply #121 on: April 13, 2004, 10:15:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by -dead-
Is that actually true or did the US government merely imply that for the requisite three times for it to be true enough for use in The War On Terror (TWOT)?

The best - indeed the only - mention I could find was a piece in The Scotsman where nameless "US security sources believe" or "the FBI suspects" ... ie no one's going to go on record saying it because there is no proof whatsoever, and the claim is therefore probably entirely specious propaganda. Or perhaps the journalist is just pulling a Jayson Blair. Do provide a link of anything better if you have it, though.

An interesting bit about the nameless "sources" of the Scotsman piece was that they were "suspecting" audio recordings of both Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri and whilst you're all for bombing or shutting down Aljazeera (who obtained & broadcast the bin Laden tape) - you make no mention of bombing or shutting down the Associated Press (who obtained & broadcast the Ayman al-Zawahiri tape). I presume this is because the New york-based AP aren't "raghead broadcasters" with "camel smelling arses" like the Qatar-based Aljazeera, which would seem to be the only difference - given that AP must surely be terrorist-loving and American-hating to obtain and broadcast such a message (if I'm reading your TWOT invective right).

Personally I'm fairly sure a multi-millionaire like bin Laden can splash out for a secure mobile or email with PGP or something more low tech like classified ads in newspapers to communicate any orders he might have efficiently and immediately, instead of having to rely on tapes given to various journalists. So excuse me while I put the "messages=bombing instructions" down to the kind of healthy, red-blooded, all-american, paranoid delusional behaviour which made the McCarthy era what it was.

Still we can add this to the list of things we definitely know about Aljazeera coverage: "it irritates Eagler". A definite plus in my book - although to be really worthy of praise it'd have to irritate Hortlund. ;)


Poetry

:D

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #122 on: April 13, 2004, 10:28:43 AM »
Dead said:

"Personally I'm fairly sure a multi-millionaire like bin Laden can splash out for a secure mobile or email with PGP or something more low tech like classified ads in newspapers to communicate any orders he might have efficiently and immediately, instead of having to rely on tapes given to various journalists. So excuse me while I put the "messages=bombing instructions" down to the kind of healthy, red-blooded, all-american, paranoid delusional behaviour which made the McCarthy era what it was."

I think you're missing the point, though I'm not sure if it's intentional or not. Broadcasting or publicising bin Laden's speech is much more than simply passing on his orders to subordinates. You're right in that I'm pretty sure he could that without the help of Al Jazera. However, broadcasting him on television allows him to incite violence and rally a heavily brainwashed people into action which will most surely mean the death of many.

Free speech is essential for a free society but anyone that thinks that an Islamic state qualifies as a free society either hasn't really taken a close look at one or comes from one themself. Most of these people are indoctrinated from birth to think along very rigid paths with deviation often beaten out of them.
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Offline MrLars

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« Reply #123 on: April 13, 2004, 11:54:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort


I'm all ears for any suggestions you have.


Since I'm not privy to the info nor the resources to reaserch the possible solutions, I'll pass on giving any serious attempt at a solution, but one thing I do know is that what must happpen is to stop the Saudi's support of the muslim schools around the world that teach the hate that fuels terrorism and to punish them for doing so.

Stopping the cycle at one of it's primary roots seems to be a good start to me.

Offline Lizard3

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« Reply #124 on: April 13, 2004, 12:47:27 PM »
Recently heard that the Iraqi's may be shutting down/out Eljizzo soon. Something about how they reported an Iraqi official in the new governement resigned to protest attrocities the americans are commiting in his country...when in fact he resigned to take a higher position, a cabinet job. The quotes I read, this guy is pist. Says Eljizzo will pay for inciting and inflaming etc. etc....

searching for a link.....

Offline BGBMAW

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« Reply #125 on: April 13, 2004, 12:57:02 PM »
ok..3days ..that must be how much you went to school...


you are trying to Drive by puke mouth doesnt woork here..

.edit:
fact that your president deny to lower emission causing climatic problems with words " Its not good for our ecenomy"

You are so cluless...why dont you look up those countries that did sign the Kyoto..and see the economic impact they will do..Then...See if ANY of those countries have been able to actually abide by the pact they signed..

Executive Summary

Last December the United States agreed at a United Nations meeting in Kyoto, Japan, to reduce its emissions of greenhouse gases by 7 percent below 1990 levels. That reduction, to be achieved mainly by cutting the combustion of fossil fuels, will lower emission levels 41 percent below where they will likely be in the year 2010 if the trend observed since 1990 continues.

The Kyoto agreement--if fully complied with--would likely reduce the gross domestic product of the United States by 2.3 percent per year. However, according to a climate model of the National Center for Atmospheric Research recently featured in Science, the Kyoto emission-control commitments would reduce mean planetary warming by a mere 0.19 degree Celsius over the next 50 years. If the costs of preventing additional warming were to remain constant, the Kyoto Protocol would cost a remarkable 12 percent of GDP per degree of warming prevented annually over a 50-year period.

The Kyoto Protocol will have no discernible effect on global climate--in fact, it is doubtful that the current network of surface thermometers could distinguish a change on the order of .19 degree from normal year-to-year variations. The Kyoto Protocol will result in no demonstrable climate change but easily demonstrable economic damage.

Full Text of Policy Analysis No. 307 (HTML)
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-307es.html

learn boy...learn

Love
BiGB
xoxo

btw..Fuq Al J..Kill them all

Offline Lizard3

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« Reply #126 on: April 13, 2004, 01:18:50 PM »
Slam

"There is no doubt that if al-Jazeera and al-Arabiyeh continue to incite violence and sectarian rifts in this country... they will be closed down here," said Iraqi National Security Adviser Dr. Muafak Rube'i. In a press conference with Western and Arab journalists, he slammed the Arab world's leading satellite news channels for stirring up both the Shi'ite rebels in the center and south of the country and insurgents in the so-called Sunni Triangle. ...

Still, Rube'i battled back, adding in both English and Arabic, that "false reporting will not be permitted in this country."



(There were better quotes from this news conference, but not reported in this link...)


Same link:
Increasing numbers of Iraqi leaders and even some viewers doubt the veracity of the two stations' version of events. "Al Jazeera broadcasts lies," said Dr. Mahmud Othman, a Kurdish Governing Council member over the weekend. "Their reporting is simply not accurate."



Dunk

For almost a week, until the Marines began to take on embedded reporters, the two channels were among the handful transmitting news from the battleground town of Falluja.

Their frequent use of the term "massacre" and their ongoing use of images of bloodied women and children has led US officials in Iraq to question the balance of their reporting.

"There is no doubt that if al-Jazeera and al-Arabiyeh continue to incite violence and sectarian rifts in this country... they will be closed down here," said Iraqi National Security Adviser Dr. Muafak Rube'i. In a press conference with Western and Arab journalists, he slammed the Arab world's leading satellite news channels for stirring up both the Shi'ite rebels in the center and south of the country and insurgents in the so-called Sunni Triangle.

The campaign against the two stations has gained momentum in recent days as thousands of Iraqis heeded the calls of mosques to send aid to Falluja and "resist American occupation."

US Deputy Operations Commander in Iraq Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt also accused Arab media of biased reporting, going as far as accusing Al-Jazeera and others of "spreading lies." When asked Sunday how Iraqis should respond to the disturbing images on TV, Kimmitt snapped: "change the channel. Change it to a legitimate honest news station. Showing American soldiers killing only women and children is lies."


Firing back at slanted journalism...?

Is this what we need to do?


As Slate's Michael Young explained in Lebanon's Daily Star, the station serves the various political interests, pursuits, and whims of its owner, Qatar's emir, Hamad bin Khalifa Al-Thani. Among other things, serving those interests means criticizing Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and to a lesser extent Egypt. Another satellite news network, Al Arabiya, the self-styled moderate alternative to Al Jazeera, is a majority Saudi-owned enterprise meant to counterbalance Al Jazeera's criticism of the kingdom. The point of owning an Arab satellite station is not to make money—Al Jazeera does not—but rather to get your own message out. Hence, the U.S.-financed Al Hurra station, with a lot of kinks still to be worked out, makes some sense in the region.

Offline -dead-

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« Reply #127 on: April 13, 2004, 01:30:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
I think you're missing the point, though I'm not sure if it's intentional or not. Broadcasting or publicising bin Laden's speech is much more than simply passing on his orders to subordinates. You're right in that I'm pretty sure he could that without the help of Al Jazera. However, broadcasting him on television allows him to incite violence and rally a heavily brainwashed people into action which will most surely mean the death of many.

Free speech is essential for a free society but anyone that thinks that an Islamic state qualifies as a free society either hasn't really taken a close look at one or comes from one themself. Most of these people are indoctrinated from birth to think along very rigid paths with deviation often beaten out of them.
The accusation "broadcasting him on television allows him to incite violence and rally a heavily brainwashed people into action which will most surely mean the death of many" could be levelled just as easily at Bush or Blair.

All people get heavily brainwashed and indoctrinated from birth to think along very rigid paths with deviation often beaten out of them. Anthropologists call this process "culture" - and it seems all primate social groups work this way. Most people get so well indoctrinated that they don't even suspect that they might be being indoctrinated. Curiously, indoctrination - like propaganda - only seems to be easy to spot if it belongs to another group with a different culture, your own culture's indoctrination seems transparent - because "that's the way it should be done".  
Think back to your childhood - did you have to pledge allegiance to a flag a lot? Why did you have to do that? Would you have got into trouble if you refused? And is brainwashing children such a bad thing? Or is it just the content of the brainwashing that you don't agree with?

An Islamic state may not qualify for your definition of a free state, it certainly doesn't qualify for my idea of a free state. But so what?
Surely denying Iraq a free press is not going to help "Operation Iraqi Freedom" make Iraq free - because, as you so rightly point out "Free speech is essential for a free society". Or are you suggesting that Operation Iraqi Freedom is doomed from the outset - a total waste of time and lives - and that a free society based on democracy is impossible in Iraq, amongst all these brainwashed and indoctrinated people?
“The FBI has no hard evidence connecting Usama Bin Laden to 9/11.” --  Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI, June 5, 2006.

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #128 on: April 13, 2004, 05:27:13 PM »
Iraq should have a free press. One that won't condemn to death views opposing religious leaders as in so many other middle eastern countries. However, the US is at war with OBL and one of the goals of war is to deny your enemy freedom of everything except surrender. Most folks hold that those who give aid to your enemy are also your enemy. Won't you agree?
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Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #129 on: April 13, 2004, 08:59:02 PM »
Quote
..go so out of their way to incite the violence that kills them?..


 And the CNN isn't doing the same?

Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #130 on: April 13, 2004, 10:48:31 PM »
This was posted on AGW.

Here's an article that provides some interesting background. It was written in October 2002 before the war, for an audience of US journalists.

----

Al-Jazeera. For most Westerners, the name conjures up images of an Arabic CNN-style satellite network that gained notoriety by airing post-9/11 rants from Osama bin Laden.

But talk to al-Jazeera’s news director—editor-in-chief Ibrahim Helal—and you get a much different picture of this Qatar-based news channel. To Helal, al-Jazeera is a responsible news voice that adheres to strict editorial principles: a rare objective news voice in the Arab world, which includes Israeli and U.S. points of view in its coverage.

“Our news philosophy is very simple; we don’t have any agenda,” Helal told Communicator in an exclusive telephone interview from Qatar. “Like every other news organization, we base our editorial decisions on what’s newsworthy and what’s important to our audience. It’s as simple as that.”

“Our editorial policy mirrors that of the BBC’s,” Helal adds. “In fact, when we started, we adopted BBC’s same editorial and presentation standards. Over the years, it has evolved to better suit the needs of our Arabic-speaking viewers, but journalistically we remain very, very close to the BBC.”

If Helal were alone in his opinion, then his assertion could be easily dismissed. But al-Jazeera’s standards have also won respect from numerous Western journalists as well. Take Mike Moran, a veteran foreign correspondent who is now MSNBC's senior producer for special reports and international news. According to Moran, al-Jazeera’s reporters are “very respectable hard-working journalists who have been trained in the West.”

Moran speaks from personal knowledge: He knows many of al-Jazeera’s staff, because back in the mid-’90s, he worked at BBC World Service in London, alongside the newsroom of BBC Arabic Television (BBCATV).

Launched by the BBC and bankrolled by Saudi Arabia, BBCATV was summarily shut down after airing “Death of a Princess.” It was a no-holds-barred documentary about the execution of a Saudi princess and her lover: not a topic the Saudis wanted aired in their country, or indeed anywhere in the world. That’s why they pulled funding for “BBC Arabic,” as it was known, and the service’s 250 journalists were thrown onto the street.

It was the death of BBCATV that led to al-Jazeera’s birth in 1996. Founded by many ex-BBCATV staff—including Helal—al-Jazeera was launched by “the Emir of Qatar and other Arab moderates who had recognized during BBC Arabic’s short life that the long-term interests of Islam would be served best by truth rather than censorship,” said Moran in his MSNBC piece, “In Defense of al-Jazeera”. The network, which is financed by commercial revenues, subscriptions and some government funding, is now available via satellite throughout the Middle East, Europe and North America. Estimated viewership: 35 million.

Max Rodenbeck, The Economist’s Middle East correspondent, echoes Moran’s endorsement of al-Jazeera. “Considering the pressures of trying to be independent in the Arab world—and al-Jazeera has been attacked by everyone from Israelis to Saddam Hussein to the Saudis—they steer a pretty straight course,” Rodenbeck says via e-mail. “I watch it for Middle Eastern news in preference to any other network.”

Does this mean that al-Jazeera’s reports should be taken at face value? No, Rodenbeck replies. “[When it comes to] content, it is certainly mildly biased toward an Arab worldview,” he says, “Exactly as should be expected, and exactly as, for example, the BBC is mildly slanted toward Britain, or CNN toward America.”

“Their credibility is sometimes suspect,” Rodenbeck adds. “They don't go through all the hoops of fact-checking, partly because they don't live in fear of libel suits.”

So why did al-Jazeera air such controversial items as messages from Osama bin Laden and other al-Qaeda tapes? Because, Helal says, like or it not, they’re news. “We received these messages from bin Laden, and we aired them as we received them,” explains Helal. “We did this in order to provide balanced coverage, just as we also air views from the West, and from Israel. Our goal is to provide accurate, objective coverage of all sides.”

A just argument? Well, it’s the same reason CNN and other U.S. news organizations also aired these tapes, and why American journalists also resisted White House attempts to suppress them.

However, there’s another reason why al-Jazeera is giving such play to al-Qaeda, and that’s ratings! “What you’ve got to realize is that al-Jazeera is ultimately managed by businesspeople, not journalists,” says Moran. “As a result, their newsroom is under pressure to produce numbers, since the network’s survival is really dependent on advertising. It’s a situation most U.S. news directors would understand. The result is that, since 9/11, al-Jazeera’s style has become more populist.”

Does this mean that al-Jazeera has sold out? If so, it’s no more than any U.S. news operation with one eye on journalism, and the other on ad revenues. However, it does explain al-Jazeera’s willingness to air bin Laden.

Finally, the real reason why al-Jazeera’s coverage often seems hostile to Western interests is simply that al-Jazeera is not a Western news agency. Instead, it’s a news service whose 35 million viewers are not only Arabic-speaking, but Arab in culture, values and geopolitical interests. “We are an international news agency, but that doesn’t mean that we should be working from a Western viewpoint,” Helal says. “Our goal is to report the news as accurately and comprehensively as we can, for the Arabic-speaking audience we serve.”

The bottom line: What makes al-Jazeera’s news different from CNN is not al-Jazeera’s journalistic standards, but its editorial viewpoint and audience. For North American news directors, this suggest that al-Jazeera’s reports shouldn’t be dismissed, but nor should they be accepted at face value. Rather, they should be viewed bearing in mind the perspective of al-Jazeera’s reporters and viewers and ratings-focused managers and judged accordingly.

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #131 on: April 14, 2004, 12:55:57 AM »
“Our news philosophy is very simple; we don’t have any agenda,” Helal told Communicator in an exclusive telephone interview from Qatar. “Like every other news organization, we base our editorial decisions on what’s newsworthy and what’s important to our audience. It’s as simple as that.”


"what's important to our audience" That could mean many things. In their case I think it means what their audience wants to hear. Eveyone has an agenda. No one is unbiased. The more unbiased you believe yourself to be the more biased it likely is you are.

My $.02
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Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #132 on: April 14, 2004, 01:11:10 AM »
Or the more fair and balanced you are?  ;)


I think you are right though, all news outles are biases, some more than others.  I don't think Al Jazeera is any more biased than Fox though.

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #133 on: April 14, 2004, 01:19:11 AM »
Can't argue that Fox would probably be more accurate to say they are fair and right. Right in both senses of the word. And I'd agree with them, but since I recognize my bias that means I'm not so biased, right? :confused:


;)
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #134 on: April 14, 2004, 01:35:01 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn
This was posted on AGW.

Here's an article that provides some interesting background. It was written in October 2002 before the war, for an audience of US journalists.

----

Al-Jazeera. For most Westerners, the name conjures up images of an Arabic CNN-style satellite network that gained notoriety by airing post-9/11 rants from Osama bin Laden.

But talk to al-Jazeera’s news director—editor-in-chief Ibrahim Helal—and you get a much different picture of this Qatar-based news channel. To Helal, al-Jazeera is a responsible news voice that adheres to strict editorial principles: a rare objective news voice in the Arab world, which includes Israeli and U.S. points of view in its coverage.

“Our news philosophy is very simple; we don’t have any agenda,” Helal told Communicator in an exclusive telephone interview from Qatar. “Like every other news organization, we base our editorial decisions on what’s newsworthy and what’s important to our audience. It’s as simple as that.”

“Our editorial policy mirrors that of the BBC’s,” Helal adds. “In fact, when we started, we adopted BBC’s same editorial and presentation standards. Over the years, it has evolved to better suit the needs of our Arabic-speaking viewers, but journalistically we remain very, very close to the BBC.”

If Helal were alone in his opinion, then his assertion could be easily dismissed. But al-Jazeera’s standards have also won respect from numerous Western journalists as well. Take Mike Moran, a veteran foreign correspondent who is now MSNBC's senior producer for special reports and international news. According to Moran, al-Jazeera’s reporters are “very respectable hard-working journalists who have been trained in the West.”

Moran speaks from personal knowledge: He knows many of al-Jazeera’s staff, because back in the mid-’90s, he worked at BBC World Service in London, alongside the newsroom of BBC Arabic Television (BBCATV).

Launched by the BBC and bankrolled by Saudi Arabia, BBCATV was summarily shut down after airing “Death of a Princess.” It was a no-holds-barred documentary about the execution of a Saudi princess and her lover: not a topic the Saudis wanted aired in their country, or indeed anywhere in the world. That’s why they pulled funding for “BBC Arabic,” as it was known, and the service’s 250 journalists were thrown onto the street.

It was the death of BBCATV that led to al-Jazeera’s birth in 1996. Founded by many ex-BBCATV staff—including Helal—al-Jazeera was launched by “the Emir of Qatar and other Arab moderates who had recognized during BBC Arabic’s short life that the long-term interests of Islam would be served best by truth rather than censorship,” said Moran in his MSNBC piece, “In Defense of al-Jazeera”. The network, which is financed by commercial revenues, subscriptions and some government funding, is now available via satellite throughout the Middle East, Europe and North America. Estimated viewership: 35 million.

Max Rodenbeck, The Economist’s Middle East correspondent, echoes Moran’s endorsement of al-Jazeera. “Considering the pressures of trying to be independent in the Arab world—and al-Jazeera has been attacked by everyone from Israelis to Saddam Hussein to the Saudis—they steer a pretty straight course,” Rodenbeck says via e-mail. “I watch it for Middle Eastern news in preference to any other network.”

Does this mean that al-Jazeera’s reports should be taken at face value? No, Rodenbeck replies. “[When it comes to] content, it is certainly mildly biased toward an Arab worldview,” he says, “Exactly as should be expected, and exactly as, for example, the BBC is mildly slanted toward Britain, or CNN toward America.”

“Their credibility is sometimes suspect,” Rodenbeck adds. “They don't go through all the hoops of fact-checking, partly because they don't live in fear of libel suits.”

So why did al-Jazeera air such controversial items as messages from Osama bin Laden and other al-Qaeda tapes? Because, Helal says, like or it not, they’re news. “We received these messages from bin Laden, and we aired them as we received them,” explains Helal. “We did this in order to provide balanced coverage, just as we also air views from the West, and from Israel. Our goal is to provide accurate, objective coverage of all sides.”

A just argument? Well, it’s the same reason CNN and other U.S. news organizations also aired these tapes, and why American journalists also resisted White House attempts to suppress them.

However, there’s another reason why al-Jazeera is giving such play to al-Qaeda, and that’s ratings! “What you’ve got to realize is that al-Jazeera is ultimately managed by businesspeople, not journalists,” says Moran. “As a result, their newsroom is under pressure to produce numbers, since the network’s survival is really dependent on advertising. It’s a situation most U.S. news directors would understand. The result is that, since 9/11, al-Jazeera’s style has become more populist.”

Does this mean that al-Jazeera has sold out? If so, it’s no more than any U.S. news operation with one eye on journalism, and the other on ad revenues. However, it does explain al-Jazeera’s willingness to air bin Laden.

Finally, the real reason why al-Jazeera’s coverage often seems hostile to Western interests is simply that al-Jazeera is not a Western news agency. Instead, it’s a news service whose 35 million viewers are not only Arabic-speaking, but Arab in culture, values and geopolitical interests. “We are an international news agency, but that doesn’t mean that we should be working from a Western viewpoint,” Helal says. “Our goal is to report the news as accurately and comprehensively as we can, for the Arabic-speaking audience we serve.”

The bottom line: What makes al-Jazeera’s news different from CNN is not al-Jazeera’s journalistic standards, but its editorial viewpoint and audience. For North American news directors, this suggest that al-Jazeera’s reports shouldn’t be dismissed, but nor should they be accepted at face value. Rather, they should be viewed bearing in mind the perspective of al-Jazeera’s reporters and viewers and ratings-focused managers and judged accordingly.


Notice how the article slowy and gently eases you into accepting that that AlJazeera's blatant bias and falsehoods are actually just fine and acceptable...