Were the Finns really “Axis”?

[BlauK]

Timras gave a very good answer. Just to simplify a few points:

-FinRus setup at CT is about the Continuation War (1941-44) which occures after Op Barbarossa... not about the Winter War (1939-40). There simply are no proper planes for Winter War. Lapland War setup could be there, but the real air action in Lapland War was quite limited.

-Finns fought 3 separate wars during WW2:

--Winter War against Russians, Nov 1939 - Mar 1940
Germany was then allied with Russia and e.g. prevented Finland from getting Fiat fighters from Italy through their railroads. Many allied countries sympathized with Finland and tried to help.

--Continuation War against Russians, Jun 1941 - Sep 1944
Finland allowed Germans to use their territory and joined in fighting agains the Russians after Russians had "technically" made the first aggressions. Finns wanted to gain back the areas lost in Winter War, but also went in deeper to gain better positions for defence. Then the rest was upto how German and Russia would finish their fight. England declared war to Finland after Finns crossed the old 1939 borders, USA never did.

--Lapland War against Germans, Sep 1944 - Apr 1945
At first a fake war... Germans retreated and Finns came after them attacking empty positions. Russia demanded real action and faster schedule to empty Germans from Finland and eventually it became a real war. Finns did not fight the Germans together with Russians, russians used some of the northern most areas of Finland in their attacks, but mainly Finns reclaimed Lapland themselves. Germans wanted to evade after all. Lots of bitterness on both sides, I guess, because of "betrayal of comradeship-in-arms" on one side and scorched earth tactics on the other side.


Finally, Yes, I think it is fair and perfectly ok to call Finns Axis during 1941-44, or at least fighting on the Axis' side. "Allies" or "Axis" dont really include any feelings of good and bad to me

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by BlauK
Timras gave a very good answer.

So did you, and Arlo's background materials were very helpful.  Thanks to all of you.

- oldman

[Löwe]

As far as I'm concerned the Finns need to be Axis every week as long as they keep bringing their Fm2 , err F2a Buffalo along !:aok

[Grendel]

Also, there was the problem of who to lean to.

Hostile neighbour in the east frontier, who  would support a tiny country against it?

1940. Look at the borders. West - neutral Sweden. North - German occupied Norway. South - sea, Soviet Union and Germany. East - Soviet Union.

Only two countries were in position to do trade with Finland. Germany and SU. Germany was old time friend, though had been almost hostile during the Winter War. But after the war they were now more willing to cooperate. They wanted access to northern Norway through Finland - and raw materials. Nickel!

Soviet Union wanted whole Finland.

Immediately after Winter War SU had started a new "war" on propaganda and diplomatic fronts. The pressure from east was immense. Germany had connections to SU and could say "no". And they did. Germany's warnings to Stalin actually helped to save Finland in summer/autumm 1940 - Soviet Union was already massing troops to the border for new offensive starting at autumm 1940. In this war Finland would have not had Karelian Isthmus and eastern Karelia as buffer zone - this time Soviet forces would have started right next to some of the bigger cities and industry of Finland.

Also, there was lack of food in Finland. Loss of Karelia meant, that much of the best farming areas in Finland were lost. The refugees had to be housed and feeding had to be organized. Trade routes were blocked to all but one direction - south, to Germany. Sweden couldn't sell food, Soviet Union woudn't. Germany would.

So what would you do?

Give up, lay down, let Soviet Union roll in? Suffer famine and let thousands die of hunger.

Or look at the only partner who would protect your country through diplomatic means, offer military support AND sell food to feed your people?

The conclusions are pretty easy to make. Finland's situation in the political scene of 1940-1941 was all but easy, but there was only two routes to select - and in my opinion our leaders took the best one available.