Author Topic: career change. (Read 793 times)

Chaos68 · « **Reply #15 on:** October 24, 2003, 07:11:07 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dago

The A&P license is one of the hardest to get believe it or not, involves the most time and effort.

dago

im going for 19 months monday- friday everyweekday for 19 months plus holding a full time job ontop of that.....its going to be hard not including what i will have to learn. but i am willing to learn and if im shelling out *cough*cough* 20k i better learn something!

Sundiver · « **Reply #16 on:** October 24, 2003, 10:54:19 PM »

I know the local community college here has offered the complete course for several years of not a decade. Tarrant College..

http://www.tcjc.cc.tx.us/programs/newdp.asp?dpid=122
http://www.tcjc.cc.tx.us/programs/newdp.asp?dpid=134
http://www.tcjc.cc.tx.us/programs/newdp.asp?dpid=135
http://www.tcjc.cc.tx.us/programs/newdp.asp?dpid=136

these look any good to people in the know?

Maverick · « **Reply #17 on:** October 24, 2003, 11:35:31 PM »

OH COD!!! For once i'm going to agree with Creamo!!! The freaking world is gonna END DAMN SOON NOW!!!!!!!!AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHH

Thanks I feel better.

For most of what you need to do in school Sears can supply you with almost all you need. Get what you can with as little money spent but do TRY to get some quality there as well. A sears 1/4" 12 point socket set will do fine until you need a set of universal sockets or offset wrenches. Get them from MAC or Snapon. Aircraft tool supply has the aircraft specific tool slike wire twisters and riveting equipment.

Mia389. You can get an A&P about 2 ways.

Get on the job experiance working in a shop and log all you hours and specific jobs in a book to show the FAA. Military work and training counts here as well. It amounts to about 3 years of work experiance. This is in both airframe and powerplant. There are a minimum number of hours of work for experiance required for each. If you have enough they clear you to take the written tests, 3 of them, general, airframe and powerplant. Then after passing them you get individually tested (called orals and practicals) by a designated examiner who tests you and watches you perform a certain number of tasks in each area of A&P. If you pass this then you are granted an A&P.

You can go to school like the ones listed above in the thread. Make darn sure it is recognised by the FAA. Some give you the school but you still haave to go out and get the 3 years of practical work experiance and do the same as th straight OJT guy did.

If the school is certified by the FAA you do all of the O's and P's there and walk out with the certificate. The school is usually authorized to give the tests on campus and has DME's (designated mechanic examiners) on staff. If the school does not have computerized test authorization that can be found all around the nation wherever flight written tests are given. (CATS I believe).

Schools vary on the amount of time it takes, 15 months being the shortest. The average is 18 I think. The cost varies tremendously. Shop wisely as the closest school may be the most expensive. I believe Cochise College is still the cheapest in the US at about $11,000.00 total instate tuition not including dorm. The campus is right on the border with Mexico and out in the middle of nowhere. There ain't much to do unfortunately. Agua Prieta is nice once but not that friendly. The nearest larger town is Sierra Vista and the nearest big city is Tucson 2 hours away by car.

Do this help ya any?

mia389 · « **Reply #18 on:** October 25, 2003, 12:25:36 AM »

Yes Maverick , Thanks a bunch. Thats what I was looking for. How it all worked. One question though. How do you log hours in a hangar if your not a A&P. I thought only A&Ps could work on planes. Any of this be in the Far/Aim? I love systems and shiit, and am very mechanicaly inclined, but spending 11,000 dollars for training on a simple airplane , might not be for me. The 45 grand I took for my flight school is gonna set me back to much as it is. Might be something when I start instructing I might wanna do though. I doubt Ill get alot of hours instructing and might have time to go school.

Maverick · « **Reply #19 on:** October 25, 2003, 12:44:18 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by mia389
Yes Maverick , Thanks a bunch. Thats what I was looking for. How it all worked. One question though. How do you log hours in a hangar if your not a A&P. I thought only A&Ps could work on planes. Any of this be in the Far/Aim? I love systems and shiit, and am very mechanicaly inclined, but spending 11,000 dollars for training on a simple airplane , might not be for me. The 45 grand I took for my flight school is gonna set me back to much as it is. Might be something when I start instructing I might wanna do though. I doubt Ill get alot of hours instructing and might have time to go school.

Mia,

You work under the authorization of the shop you were hired by. If it is an FBO you are supervised by an A&P or an A&P IA who signs off your work. It's actually quite common. I worked for a bit over 6 months for an independant IA before I decided to go to school. Now I contract with him as in independant A&P. I was not willing to do the 3 year bit but the experiance I had made A&P classes quite a bit easier than for the others. I ended up being a adjunct instructor a few times when the main instructor was swamped,

As to the log, you can buy a mechanics log book at some avaiation supply houses. You list all that you have done and the specific components you worked on. Keep a seperate tally of the actual hours by category (af or Power plant) and make sure you cover all the bases. The FAR's do have info for this but I don't have mine with me right now. A call to your local FSDO can point you to the specific requirements by reg and who does the testing and so on in your area.

mia389 · « **Reply #20 on:** October 25, 2003, 10:01:25 AM »

Thanks mav

cpxxx · « **Reply #21 on:** October 25, 2003, 10:14:40 AM »

As Maverick says you work under authorisation from an A&P. Depite what many think you don't have to know anything about aircraft to work on them as long as your work is checked by a qualified certified individual. The system works though and as you will no doubt soon find out, it's all about paperwork and documentation as much as practical work. The saying is that an aircraft cannot fly unless the weight of the paperwork equals the weight of the actual aircraft

Another thing to remember about tools is that no matter how expensive they are you never engrave your name on them. Just in case you leave one behind in a wing or something it jams the controls and brings down the aircraft. It happens more often than you think:eek:

Interesting I read lately that many newly qualified A & P's are head hunted as technicians by high technology companies because of the skill set available. They pay a lot better than many aviation jobs too. The sad truth about aviation is that it doesn't pay that well and is very insecure. Having said that, there is nothing quite like working around aircraft. My brother is a Aircraft Engineer as A & P's are called here and although he complains about it and he easily could get a better paid more secure job. He won't give it up. He told me that the first time he bolted a wing back onto an aeroplane and then watched it fly away was one of the scariest moments in his life. You won't get that buzz in a electronics plant.

Dago · « **Reply #22 on:** October 25, 2003, 06:24:38 PM »

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Interesting I read lately that many newly qualified A & P's are head hunted as technicians by high technology companies because of the skill set available.

That one should be on SNOPES as I have heard it many times but you will find it difficult to find anyone who has been actually recruited.

Anyone trying to get his A&P license throught the experience route would be well advised as mentioned earlier to keep a log of all the procedures he has performed, and who supervised them. The more documentation you can provide, the better the chances are you will be approved to take the tests.

Oddly enough, the FARS regarding the experience route do not specify any minimum amount of hours of experience, only months, and don't even address whether you work full time, part time or one day a week maintaining aircraft.

BTW, as far as working under supervision, that isn't required on aircraft certificated in the Experimental category. Anyone can work on an Experimental category aircraft.

I wish new A&Ps well with their career choice, but it is one I would hesitate to recommend and would give serious thought to doing it again if I had to start over. There are literally thousands of A&Ps out of work right now with the aviation industry suffering as rarely before in the economic climate of today.

dago

Maverick · « **Reply #23 on:** October 25, 2003, 10:26:00 PM »

Dago,

One of the main characteristics of aviation is that it is a very cyclical beast. It's up, it's down. It all depends on where the world is ant the time. If you are really interested in the job field you learn to deal with it. Certainly no one is going to expect to get rich being an A&P.

The old saw about, how to make a small fortune in aviation, start with 2 large ones, is pretty true. For those of us who love general aviation and warbirds, it's a labor of love not a way to make the big bucks. You can be comfortable if you have a good reputation for doing quality work without ripping people off.

The majors will get back to hiring soon as passenger travel builds. There are only so many in the field and the jobs will have to be filled.

Chaos68 · « **Reply #24 on:** October 26, 2003, 10:31:53 AM »

i heard that cargo flight is the way to go now, companys like FedEx, UPS, USPS..etc.... Because they are hirering more unlike Northwest (which has a freeze because there in trubble). But i heard people are buying more online which means things need to be flown in more. I'm not sure because im not in that field yet.

i not going into it expecting to make bookoo money, i love airplanes and this job cought my eye.

Dago · « **Reply #25 on:** October 26, 2003, 05:21:50 PM »

Quote

One of the main characteristics of aviation is that it is a very cyclical beast. It's up, it's down. It all depends on where the world is ant the time. If you are really interested in the job field you learn to deal with it. Certainly no one is going to expect to get rich being an A&P.

Thanks for sharing that with me Maverick, having spent the last 25 years+ working as an A&P full time, I haven't learned anything and didn't understand anything about it. (have worked in GA, Corporate, Overseas, Major Airline, and also work on some Antique/Classic/Warbird types on the side).

Here is an interesting fact about A&Ps, on average they only stay in the industry as mechanics for 17 years. It has become very common for them to accept other jobs that offer better stability, income, working conditions and less liability.

Don't get me wrong, I like being an A&P, being able to fix aircraft, enjoying the feeling of satisfaction that I get from doing a job well, being able to troubleshoot a problem and come up with the proper repair. BUT, if I had it to do over again, I would have spent the time and money and been a pilot for a career. Conditions are better, pay is better, job is more interesting and the chicks dig pilots more than the perceived greasy mechanic.

dago

Chaos68 · « **Reply #26 on:** October 27, 2003, 03:04:06 PM »

i'm taking my test today (just to see if i can get in the program) at 5:30pm.

I know i will pass the test, im more scared because i dont know whats on the test.