Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: The Fugitive on May 15, 2021, 04:25:24 PM
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Most of you old timers like me will remember how you went about learning this game from the start. You downloaded the game, got a basic setup on your stick jumped into the game and if you got off the ground you were repeatedly and unceremoniously killed over and over again.
Then the learning began. We didnt hunt for tricks and added software add-ons, no we did research. We hunted down all the information we could find on the internet on everything we could get to get better, make our computers better and so on. Through the years there were many that sought to help by building pages with helpful tips.
Animals Tactics
Tips on getting the very best out of your computer and your internet connection.
Soda's aircraft page
Write ups on every plane in the game. Strengths, weaknesses, and best yet, how to fight in them or against them.
Doktor Gonzo's aircraft page
A side by side comparison of the fighters in Aces High.
All lost to time..... well maybe not all :devil
I contacted Gonzo and he gave me all the code and files he had for his site. The data was still good, but the way the program worked wasnt. The program used "Flash" to generate the graphs and put them into a page. Flash is a big "no-no" now and browsers wont even load it. I reworked the opening page and got someone to help with the coding to get it working again.
This is the first step in putting together a big help page. Through the years playing this game we all love I have accumulated a lot of "helpful" sites/information. I hope to build a site with everything stored in one place. I will give credit to the originators and link back to there pages but I hope to have it all stored on one server. I dont plan on leaving the game anytime soon, and I hope the game is around for years to come. With that thought I figured having this information in a single easy to find site might help new guys pick up on the learning curve a bit easier.
So here is the first step, The NEW Gonzo's Fighter Comparison Page (http://66.189.10.34:8080/gonzo/ah_charts_2.html)
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Thanks for all your work on this, Fugitive.
- oldman
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Most excellent!
Thanks Fuji. :salute
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I can help with programming/coding stuff, if that is still needed.
This is a great improvement over HiTech's default page, which I've been using. https://www.hitechcreations.com/component/ahplaneperf/?Itemid=139
I still feel like some old hands can teach us "newbs" some things. For instance, I just learned about trim aiming in AH just a few weeks ago, so something like Soda's aircraft page would help me a lot!
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Most Excellent Brother!!!! :aok :aok :aok
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I'm thinking of coming back to the game. It's been over a decade.
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I'm thinking of coming back to the game. It's been over a decade.
So stop thinking. Come back. You'll recognize some old friends, and meet new ones.
- oldman
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This site was indispensable to me way back when. Superb job getting it back from the nether! :aok :aok :aok
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Used that site a lot, and recommended it to newbs. Glad to see it back. Thanks, Fuji! :salute
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I still feel like some old hands can teach us "newbs" some things. For instance, I just learned about trim aiming in AH just a few weeks ago, so something like Soda's aircraft page would help me a lot!
Trim aiming?
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Wow! Kudos for gettin that done Fugi. Made my day! :aok
:salute
Just made a comparison of 4 planes. Color assignments are blue, green, brown and gold. Any way of changing the gold or brown to red as they're difficult to distinguish in the chart...for me anyway. (I'm using a 32" 1440 res screen)
Thanks !
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Nice work Joe. :aok
:salute
Sik
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I can help with programming/coding stuff, if that is still needed.
This is a great improvement over HiTech's default page, which I've been using. https://www.hitechcreations.com/component/ahplaneperf/?Itemid=139
I still feel like some old hands can teach us "newbs" some things. For instance, I just learned about trim aiming in AH just a few weeks ago, so something like Soda's aircraft page would help me a lot!
Trim aiming? Please elaborate.
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Nice work Fugi, thank you! :salute
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Wow! Kudos for gettin that done Fugi. Made my day! :aok
:salute
Just made a comparison of 4 planes. Color assignments are blue, green, brown and gold. Any way of changing the gold or brown to red as they're difficult to distinguish in the chart...for me anyway. (I'm using a 32" 1440 res screen)
Thanks !
Done, I was going to change that but it slipped by, thanks for the reminder ;)
Thanks guys, Im glad ya'll like it. <S>
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Fuji, can you swap the X and Y axis' on the performance charts so that the X is speed/climb rate and Y axis is altitude? This would make them like the old site was and also the HTC charts.
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Trim in a 109 is an important consideration and becoming familiar with the full range of trim available and knowing when to use it largely removes the 109's weakness of poor control response at high speed. Whenever your speed falls to a controllable level you can quickly restore normal trim settings using CTRL+X. Trim can be used as a supplement to stick input and with a bit of practice can be used instinctively to accurately aim the 109 or stay on a cons 6 at high speed. The trim keys are:
Elevator up = K Elevator down = I Rudder left = J Rudder right = L Aileron left = M Aileron right = , (comma key)
Note: trimming does not add extra turning ability, trimming is done in Aces High by moving your existing control surfaces not by adjusting trim tabs. Trim only overcomes the simulated heavy control surfaces at high speeds.
https://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Bf_109G-2
I've known about trim since I started the game, but never really thought to use it to aim a 30mm tater at 600+ out. I've only done this a few times though ;)
Try it against the drones in the offline practice and its pretty nice to line up a sweet shot. Since I got a better joystick, monitor, and VR set up I don't really trim aim anymore unless I have a 30mm+ cannon plane.
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My browsers are not working with the link provided.
66.189.10.34:8080/gonzo/ah_charts_2.html
^ that’s the link which of course is not http or www...
How are you getting the page to work? It takes me to the website(s) but won’t load any comparisons once I hit submit.
Thanks in advance
:salute
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My browsers are not working with the link provided.
66.189.10.34:8080/gonzo/ah_charts_2.html
^ that’s the link which of course is not http or www...
How are you getting the page to work? It takes me to the website(s) but won’t load any comparisons once I hit submit.
Thanks in advance
:salute
The address is the actual address of the server. What browser are you using?
Fuji, can you swap the X and Y axis' on the performance charts so that the X is speed/climb rate and Y axis is altitude? This would make them like the old site was and also the HTC charts.
I thought about that, and it looks odd to us as we know the other way, but to a new guy I think the visual of that speed climbing with alt or the climb rate fall off will help them.
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The address is the actual address of the server. What browser are you using?
Apple’s safari & DuckDuckGo. Both from my IPad
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I thought about that, and it looks odd to us as we know the other way, but to a new guy I think the visual of that speed climbing with alt or the climb rate fall off will help them.
I don't know, I think the visual of the vertical axis representing altitude is the most intuitive for players new and old.
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I thought about that, and it looks odd to us as we know the other way, but to a new guy I think the visual of that speed climbing with alt or the climb rate fall off will help them.
I think it's totally counterintuitive even to a new guy to have 'altitude over ground' go from left to right instead of 'up and down'. It's also confusing to use a format different from the in game charts.
But it's great to see that tool back again :aok
Any plans to add the missing fighters?
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https://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Bf_109G-2
I've known about trim since I started the game, but never really thought to use it to aim a 30mm tater at 600+ out. I've only done this a few times though ;)
It's nothing more than a gimmick and will not provide you with any significant advantage over some else. You are better off practicing your flying and gunnery skills.
Try it against the drones in the offline practice and its pretty nice to line up a sweet shot. Since I got a better joystick, monitor, and VR set up I don't really trim aim anymore unless I have a 30mm+ cannon plane.
Been playing this game and others like AH since before you were born. I don't need to resort to gimmicks.
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I don't know, I think the visual of the vertical axis representing altitude is the most intuitive for players new and old.
I think it's totally counterintuitive even to a new guy to have 'altitude over ground' go from left to right instead of 'up and down'. It's also confusing to use a format different from the in game charts.
But it's great to see that tool back again :aok
Any plans to add the missing fighters?
To me it makes perfect sense. moving from left to right the "giving" is the altitude increases. The plotting shows either top speed or increase in fpm by climbing up the chart (up is always tied to "good") until it hits that point where you are no longer getting any benefit and it "drops off" with the plots running down.
As to adding the other planes, Id love to but Im not sure about adding them to the code ( I think I know how to do it) but the bigger issue is finding the time to gather the data for each graph. I believe that part of the package Gonzo gave me gives me information on "how" they gathered the data, but it may be a lot of time involved getting it all together.
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Been playing this game and others like AH since before you were born. I don't need to resort to gimmicks.
You asked and he answered, no need to be a dick about it.
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To me it makes perfect sense. moving from left to right the "giving" is the altitude increases. The plotting shows either top speed or increase in fpm by climbing up the chart (up is always tied to "good") until it hits that point where you are no longer getting any benefit and it "drops off" with the plots running down.
Yeah, but "up" is also always tied to "up"
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It's nothing more than a gimmick and will not provide you with any significant advantage over some else. You are better off practicing your flying and gunnery skills.
Been playing this game and others like AH since before you were born. I don't need to resort to gimmicks.
Ok. Thanks for proving my point.
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At 450+mph it is useful in a 109 to trim down, as AH's auto trim isn't sufficient enough.
Of course the reverse to pull out of a high speed dive, hammer that K key :D.
But other than that this "trim aiming" is as AKAK said, "a gimmick" and that's that.
Regardless, scoring a hit by shooting a 30mm on say a K4 over 300yards is always a gamble, as the 30mm is inaccurate and at 600yards is more dumb luck than anything.
Follow the 109 pilot's 30mm rule; 30mm set to 350yards and shoot at icon 300 or less.
But also the information is not wholly correct to my observation, "trimming does not add extra turning ability", there are some exceptions;
Manually trimming nose up on a P51 at low speed (i.e. on flaps,) improves turnrate, and will help win a TnB fight to an identical P51 using autotrim.
This is because autotrim is designed to get the aircraft to fly flat at level at that certain speed, AcesHigh doesn't use separate trim tabs, but moves the whole elevator surface. Therefore there is less deflection angle with the auto trim on in a P51 at low speed, as it wants to point the nose down to level flight.
I'm pretty bad at explaining things, but;
this has been my Ted Talk.
:D
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AcesHigh doesn't use separate trim tabs, but moves the whole elevator surface. Therefore there is less deflection angle with the auto trim on in a P51 at low speed, as it wants to point the nose down to level flight.
This is not correct. Aces high trim is exactly the same as moving your stick. But in real life this simply removes the pressure on the stick where you currently are holding it. If you are hands off in real life the stick moves when you adjust trim. This is accomplished by a tab on the back of the control surface which moves the opposite direction of which way you want the control surface to move.
This is how trim tabs work on almost all airplanes except a few that have a trimable horizontal stab or I have also seen simple spring adjustments on aileron trim on some planes.
Now the issue that we can not do like real life is that I can not remove pressure from your stick position with out you moving the stick. So if you would apply up trim you need to move stick forward to maintain the same pitch attitude. Now en order to still maintain full stick deflection the the scale of elevator to stick movement is adjusted as trim is so that you will stick have full stick deflection no matter where the trim is.
The only time trim can change your turn rates is when you are not elevator stop limited, but stick force limited because of high speed. In this case moving trim will add or decrease turn performance.
HiTech
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This is fantastic!! Thanks for the work you put into it.
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Thanks! :salute
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This is not correct. Aces high trim is exactly the same as moving your stick. But in real life this simply removes the pressure on the stick where you currently are holding it. If you are hands off in real life the stick moves when you adjust trim. This is accomplished by a tab on the back of the control surface which moves the opposite direction of which way you want the control surface to move.
This is how trim tabs work on almost all airplanes except a few that have a trimable horizontal stab or I have also seen simple spring adjustments on aileron trim on some planes.
Now the issue that we can not do like real life is that I can not remove pressure from your stick position with out you moving the stick. So if you would apply up trim you need to move stick forward to maintain the same pitch attitude. Now en order to still maintain full stick deflection the the scale of elevator to stick movement is adjusted as trim is so that you will stick have full stick deflection no matter where the trim is.
The only time trim can change your turn rates is when you are not elevator stop limited, but stick force limited because of high speed. In this case moving trim will add or decrease turn performance.
HiTech
I knew I explained it poorly... Autotrim moves my Elevators which are connected to the stick, so autotrim moving my stick moves my elevators, there is no separate trim tab.. so what I said was right but poorly explained.
But anyway, in observation, the P51 at low speed in a TnB manually trimmed 100% nose up will out-turn a P51 with autotrim on, because the stick isn't being moved forward and limited by the autotrim. And I am sure a P51 driver that gets into turnfights that require slow speeds and full flaps will observe the same, and have been doing so for many long years. It was something I picked up in 2008 thanks to PEZ.
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To me it makes perfect sense.
It doesn't, simply because it's the opposite of how it has been done since the original charts were created.
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But anyway, in observation, the P51 at low speed in a TnB manually trimmed 100% nose up will out-turn a P51 with autotrim on, because the stick isn't being moved forward and limited by the autotrim.
Auto trim does not limit elevator movement. You still get full deflection no matter where the trim is set.
HiTech
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So stop thinking. Come back. You'll recognize some old friends, and meet new ones.
- oldman
Yo.
Tex
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Yo.
Tex
Good lord, it's Tex. Dude!
- oldman
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Great site. Thanks for getting it up and running.
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It doesn't, simply because it's the opposite of how it has been done since the original charts were created.
I agree.
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It doesn't, simply because it's the opposite of how it has been done since the original charts were created.
I agree.
And I suppose if you guys moved to London you'd be the ones driving on the other side of the road cursing the other drivers for being wrong. :D
It only looks wrong to you because you knew it the other way. To me the other way was always confusing. This way just makes more sense to me.
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Auto trim does not limit elevator movement. You still get full deflection no matter where the trim is set.
HiTech
:headscratch: So, it's been a placebo effect all this time!? :uhoh
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It's nothing more than a gimmick and will not provide you with any significant advantage over some else. You are better off practicing your flying and gunnery skills.
Been playing this game and others like AH since before you were born. I don't need to resort to gimmicks.
What Ack Ack said,
You will be wasting your time with adjusting trims and what not.
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And I suppose if you guys moved to London you'd be the ones driving on the other side of the road cursing the other drivers for being wrong. :D
It only looks wrong to you because you knew it the other way. To me the other way was always confusing. This way just makes more sense to me.
Red herring, but no, because that is the law.
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Red herring, but no, because that is the law.
The point is, its only wrong to you because its different. It still displays the same information.
To me it makes sense because as the graph starts to dip is where you lose "top speed" or best climb rates. It is obvious because its going down.
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Very useful charts and thanks for putting it together again. Should be stickied or incorporated into AH.
Anyone know what the yak3 turn radius is? Im guessing 600ish. I didn't realise a ki84 out turned a Nik either without flaps, technically speaking of course.
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Is there any chance of being able to add and update the newer aircraft not on the comparison charts?
I find it helpful
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Is there any chance of being able to add and update the newer aircraft not on the comparison charts?
I find it helpful
I hope to add the planes that are missing. The issue is most of the data was compiled by players flying the planes and doing the computations for everything. Im still digging through the data sheets to see "how" they came up with the numbers running test after test.
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I hope to add the planes that are missing. The issue is most of the data was compiled by players flying the planes and doing the computations for everything. Im still digging through the data sheets to see "how" they came up with the numbers running test after test.
Do you have Mosq's Sustained Turn List? Someone posted the PDF here years ago. It has all the fighter/attackers including the complete Yak family.
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Fugi thanks! I haven't seen DoKs stuff in years.
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Do you have Mosq's Sustained Turn List? Someone posted the PDF here years ago. It has all the fighter/attackers including the complete Yak family.
Yes I have those, unfortunately it doesnt cover the YAK3 and the Yak7 because we didnt have those planes when they ran the tests.
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Yes I have those, unfortunately it doesnt cover the YAK3 and the Yak7 because we didnt have those planes when they ran the tests.
they're in the PDF I have.
No Flaps
39 Yak 7 25% 628.5 20.2
51 Yak 3 25% 666.6 21.4
Full Flaps
45 Yak 3 25% 523.9 20.7
52 Yak 7 25% 534.1 18.1
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:aok
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they're in the PDF I have.
No Flaps
39 Yak 7 25% 628.5 20.2
51 Yak 3 25% 666.6 21.4
Full Flaps
45 Yak 3 25% 523.9 20.7
52 Yak 7 25% 534.1 18.1
Awesome! Now how would you like to run some speed tests ? :)
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Awesome! Now how would you like to run some speed tests ? :)
That's what the HTC charts are for. :aok
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What numbers are what?
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Rank Plane Fuel Min Turn Radius (ft) Max turn rate (deg/sec)
39 Yak 7 25% 628.5 20.2
51 Yak 3 25% 666.6 21.4
Full Flaps
45 Yak 3 25% 523.9 20.7
52 Yak 7 25% 534.1 18.1
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Thanks. Sometimes I need it drawn with the crayons.
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Thanks. Sometimes I need it drawn with the crayons.
Not in this case. I gave Fuji the data strait from the PDF lists, knowing he had the rest and how to read it. Without the older list, it will look like random numbers for sure.
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Thanks Fugi, I used to spend a lot of time reading Sodas' work. Great stuff! :salute :cheers:
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Maybe some of you Yak3 ppl could post stats since it was a latecomer to the game.
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Maybe some of you Yak3 ppl could post stats since it was a latecomer to the game.
Im working on it but its the time issue here. Retirement cant come soon enough, I have so many things I want to do!!
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Im working on it but its the time issue here. Retirement cant come soon enough, I have so many things I want to do!!
And after a year of retirement, I got bored and went back to work...part time, anyway. Human beings are never happy no matter what. :rofl
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And after a year of retirement, I got bored and went back to work...part time, anyway. Human beings are never happy no matter what. :rofl
I was happy once... It was a Thursday. :old: