Help and Support Forums => All things VR => Topic started by: FLS on July 10, 2017, 06:26:45 AM
Title: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: FLS on July 10, 2017, 06:26:45 AM
You can get the Rift and Touch controllers for $400 instead of the usual $600.
Title: Re: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: FESS67 on July 10, 2017, 07:05:20 AM
But it is next to useless in this game unless you use the hat switch to look around. I find that very odd, get VR for the immersive aspect but you have to use the hat switch to make effective use of the views or you are essentially a victim.
I gave up on VR in here. I think without further development around peripheral vision VR is a handicap in fighter combat sims. Works very very well in anything that does not require easy access to views behind the 3-9 line. Car racing for example, it is brilliant. But to go from trackIR to VR in flight sims is IMO a step back.
Title: Re: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: Skuzzy on July 10, 2017, 09:05:19 AM
I have no problem at all looking behind me with either the Vive or the Oculus without using any keys or buttons. I just turn my head and follow the target. I find tracking targets is so much easier with the VR headsets.
Is it different from track IR? Oh yeah, way different. I do not get disoriented with a VR headset, like I do with track IR. It is all what you are used to. Flying, with a VR headset, is closer to what it is like flying a real plane than track IR is.
That said, I have seen all manner of opinions about the various interfaces. I would say if you are investing in a VR headset and expect it to act like a TrackIR set, then you are wasting your money. It is not going to act like that. Never will.
Title: Re: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: Mister Fork on July 10, 2017, 09:57:40 AM
But it is next to useless in this game unless you use the hat switch to look around. I find that very odd, get VR for the immersive aspect but you have to use the hat switch to make effective use of the views or you are essentially a victim.
I gave up on VR in here. I think without further development around peripheral vision VR is a handicap in fighter combat sims. Works very very well in anything that does not require easy access to views behind the 3-9 line. Car racing for example, it is brilliant. But to go from trackIR to VR in flight sims is IMO a step back.
The Rift works just fine without using my hats. I do use them to look quicker than I could by simply turning my head. (Some may call that cheating) :)
I'm with Skuzzy- target tracking with my VR headset is 10X easier than using my hat to track.
Title: Re: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: FLS on July 10, 2017, 11:00:21 AM
But it is next to useless in this game unless you use the hat switch to look around. I find that very odd, get VR for the immersive aspect but you have to use the hat switch to make effective use of the views or you are essentially a victim.
I gave up on VR in here. I think without further development around peripheral vision VR is a handicap in fighter combat sims. Works very very well in anything that does not require easy access to views behind the 3-9 line. Car racing for example, it is brilliant. But to go from trackIR to VR in flight sims is IMO a step back.
You find it odd that the technology is not as advanced as you'd like? I find that normal. I always want more advanced technology. :D
The Rift is what we have now and it's awesome and amazing, not perfect, just awesome and amazing and 33% off the regular price. :aok
Title: Re: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: SIK1 on July 10, 2017, 12:04:20 PM
Looks like I'm getting the Touch controlers after all. :D
:salute Sik
Title: Re: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: Kanth on July 10, 2017, 01:08:56 PM
:rofl just don't let them near your Aces High, they will creepily show up and point at things when you aren't expecting it. :devil
:rofl just don't let them near your Aces High, they will creepily show up and point at things when you aren't expecting it. :devil
:confused: YEP! Like when you are trying to see the guy behind you AND YOUR HANDS are in the way! If you have used the Touch Controllers in a game they will show up in AH. Take batteries out....even if you put them under your desk they show up :mad: Ask me how I know :bhead Oh, right, I already did :neener:
Title: Re: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: FLS on July 10, 2017, 02:04:46 PM
The Touch controllers go into standby for a while then they turn off, just like the Rift remote controller. Mine hang 3 ft from a sensor and Oculus sees them as off.
Title: Re: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: Kanth on July 10, 2017, 03:16:50 PM
Yep they will stop showing up after a while...until the cat comes...
Then there is a lot of finger pointing!
p.s. thanks for letting us know about the sale!
Title: Re: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: Vulcan on July 10, 2017, 05:13:49 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: Copprhed on July 10, 2017, 11:42:53 PM
So tell me, does your head rotate 180 degrees in either direction? can you really swivel your head to see all the way in the back? I dare say not. No pilot can turn to see all the way in the rear. Using the hate to check 6 IS technically cheating because it allows us to do something that's not humanly possible.
Title: Re: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: FLS on July 11, 2017, 12:44:07 AM
So tell me, does your head rotate 180 degrees in either direction? can you really swivel your head to see all the way in the back? I dare say not. No pilot can turn to see all the way in the rear. Using the hate to check 6 IS technically cheating because it allows us to do something that's not humanly possible.
This may help. :aok
Title: Re: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: FESS67 on July 11, 2017, 01:13:35 AM
No, I do not expect VR to be like TrackIR. However, my point is, as Copprhed has also articulated, the range of movement required to view behind in VR is 180 degrees because it lacks the peripheral vision aspect that we have in real life. If I turn my head 90 degrees I can actually see behind me with peripheral vision. With VR as it currently stands all I see is that 90 degrees. TrackIR compensates for that with a sped up axis and I understand why that may not be an option with VR due to nausea.
With TrackIR I do not have to use view mapped buttons, with VR I believe in order to be competitive the use of view buttons is required. There are several posts on this forum around that topic.
Thanks for your input Vulcan, I don't find personal insults are the best way to respond to a point of view.
Title: Re: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: 1stpar3 on July 11, 2017, 01:40:05 AM
Ok, the FOV and the limitations of VR do create a challenge. Pretty sure that in real life the pilot had a bit more leeway in as far as he could move around the cockpit.than we have in game? Reason I say this, is because if pilots couldnt check their six(view to the rear) why would the "Bubble Canopy" add on to P51's have been such a game changer? I have started using a swivel chair to make up for the lack of movement in VR. It just makes it seem more real to me. Since we cant lean very far in either axis, it sort of makes up for it. I am not saying it has sme result as Hat switches, as its hard to swivel and keep your hands on the stick. Just seems to bridge the gap between (That could never happen- This is pretty close to real life) different set up preferences. Oh, one more thing. Not trolling one bit, just curious as to why you feel hat switches kill the VR experience. Before TIR, that was all you had? You could get the exact same views then, as you do now. I agree that the realism may be diminished a bit with the hat switch being used but wasnt that already an established practice long before VR? Not judging, just curious. Thats why I like the swivel chair, you still have to really strain to get a "FULL" check six, but alot better since I cant lean forward as far as I would like and same with leaning to look around the tail. Makes up for lack of peripheral vision, at least for me.
Title: Re: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: Skuzzy on July 11, 2017, 06:16:45 AM
No, I do not expect VR to be like TrackIR. However, my point is, as Copprhed has also articulated, the range of movement required to view behind in VR is 180 degrees because it lacks the peripheral vision aspect that we have in real life. If I turn my head 90 degrees I can actually see behind me with peripheral vision. With VR as it currently stands all I see is that 90 degrees. TrackIR compensates for that with a sped up axis and I understand why that may not be an option with VR due to nausea.
With TrackIR I do not have to use view mapped buttons, with VR I believe in order to be competitive the use of view buttons is required. There are several posts on this forum around that topic.
Thanks for your input Vulcan, I don't find personal insults are the best way to respond to a point of view.
I have never had to turn 180 degrees to follow a target. I swivel in my chair if I need to be looking back for any time at all. The hat trick was provided for those who have limited mobility in your chair.
Your original assessment/hyperbole of "it is next to useless" is just not accurate for everyone. I could say the same thing about TrackIR as I cannot use it at all.
The VR headsets (Vive and Oculus) currently have fewer limitations than any other viewing interface.
So tell me, does your head rotate 180 degrees in either direction? can you really swivel your head to see all the way in the back? I dare say not. No pilot can turn to see all the way in the rear. Using the hate to check 6 IS technically cheating because it allows us to do something that's not humanly possible.
Using TrackIR and moving your head 3 degrees to look behind you is no different than using the hat to reset the point of view in a VR headset. Or not even using TrackIR and just using hat views also allows you to look 180 degrees behind you and you do not have to move your head at all.
All these tools are to get around the viewing limitations of a flat 2D monitor, whether you are wearing it or not.
Like it or not, there is still nothing more immersive than flying with the current generation of VR headsets. They come the closest to emulating what it is really like to be in the cockpit of a plane.
Title: Re: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: Gman on July 11, 2017, 07:45:01 PM
Rift + touch for $400 is a super deal, I paid $900 Cdn for each of my Rift with NO touch controllers when they first came out.
I think 95% of the players who try the Rift will enjoy it and get great things from using it in flight sims. Is VR perfect - no. As stated, without being able to use your peripheral vision, looking directly aft can be a challenge - like Skuzzy said, a chair with castors which can pivot, or pivot on a fixed stand somehow, helps a lot in this area, I use a DX Racer with large 5" rolling casts and a pivoting base on it on a smooth surface for this very reason. TrackIR is still faster, and in terms of competitiveness, I would say hat+TrackIR is probably going to have a slight advantage, although VR players once they get accustomed to how it works in combination with the hat capability HTC has IMO can come very close, possibly even equal in terms of keeping track of a target.
4 hundred bucks. It's a steal really. Every person I know who tried VR in this game has been impressed, even with the few small disadvantages.
Title: Re: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: 1stpar3 on July 12, 2017, 02:25:22 AM
I have never had to turn 180 degrees to follow a target. I swivel in my chair if I need to be looking back for any time at all. The hat trick was provided for those who have limited mobility in your chair.
Your original assessment/hyperbole of "it is next to useless" is just not accurate for everyone. I could say the same thing about TrackIR as I cannot use it at all.
The VR headsets (Vive and Oculus) currently have fewer limitations than any other viewing interface.
Using TrackIR and moving your head 3 degrees to look behind you is no different than using the hat to reset the point of view in a VR headset. Or not even using TrackIR and just using hat views also allows you to look 180 degrees behind you and you do not have to move your head at all.
All these tools are to get around the viewing limitations of a flat 2D monitor, whether you are wearing it or not.
Like it or not, there is still nothing more immersive than flying with the current generation of VR headsets. They come the closest to emulating what it is really like to be in the cockpit of a plane.
YES I KNOW, with oculus having been used by you, no going back. lol Curious as to why you couldnt use TrackIr? I do have to agree with you on this. Even with the lack of resolution, the game play is at a whole new level.
Title: Re: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: Skuzzy on July 12, 2017, 05:55:38 AM
YES I KNOW, with oculus having been used by you, no going back. lol Curious as to why you couldnt use TrackIr? I do have to agree with you on this. Even with the lack of resolution, the game play is at a whole new level.
I never could get passed the vertigo from moving my head and everything moving out of sync.
Title: Re: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: Flossy on July 12, 2017, 09:29:21 AM
Mine is arriving tomorrow! :aok :D
Title: Re: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: Kanth on July 12, 2017, 09:42:50 AM
Woohooo!!! :banana: :banana:
Remember at first it may make you feel really sick. Try it for very short periods at first. That will go away pretty quickly and then it's pretty amazing. The more you move your head and the plane at first the more sick you may feel.
You should probably pick up a small desktop fan for your face, it can get warm in the oculus and the air will help you not to feel as sick. :aok
Remember at first it may make you feel really sick. Try it for very short periods at first. That will go away pretty quickly and then it's pretty amazing. The more you move your head and the plane at first the more sick you may feel.
Hopefully I won't be too bad as I have used my husband's Oculus for short periods when I was able to borrow it sometimes. Moving it between our PCs was too much hassle for me to try it often though and when I saw this offer I just HAD to have one of my own! I've also briefly tried it at various conventions in the past too. :)
Quote
You should probably pick up a small desktop fan for your face, it can get warm in the oculus and the air will help you not to feel as sick. :aok
Yeah I have a small USB fan here I can use. Thanks for the tip! :aok
Title: Re: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: Kanth on July 12, 2017, 09:52:58 AM
Ahhh so you know how it is, you might be fine! :cheers:
Title: Re: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: Flossy on July 12, 2017, 09:56:21 AM
Ahhh so you know how it is, you might be fine! :cheers:
Yeah thanks. Might need to resurrect my Voice Attack, though I used to have problems with some actions. I am a touch-typist though so should be OK for typing. :)
Title: Re: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: 1stpar3 on July 12, 2017, 03:25:30 PM
I never could get passed the vertigo from moving my head and everything moving out of sync.
Figured that was why. Think I remembered a post before about your dizziness. I guess I was lucky, TIR fit me like a glove, ok maybe a hat lol. Glove on my head would be weird :x I guess I was just so frustrated with trying to use hat switches that anything would have been better. I did really love it though. I am surprised the VR was easier on you. Either way though,I would still use it, its pretty nice. Ok its pretty BAD Donkey :rock You guys have been Johny on the spot with getting AH and Vr to team so well. DCS's VR is still far from what we have. Havent played much, as far as other games go, but AH has improved its VR support at light speed compared to most other developers, THANK YOU :rock
Title: Re: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: Patt2014 on July 20, 2017, 11:56:12 PM
I'm too cheap. $12 board, 2 cents of solder and the plastic case from my gf's dental floss (and some GF-ack) and pseudo 6dof tracker in 30 mins.
Title: Re: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: ntrudr on July 23, 2017, 09:36:20 AM
How does it work for old guys that need glasses? I wear computer glasses with a focal length of 24" when sitting at the PC and progressives for everything else.
Title: Re: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: FLS on July 23, 2017, 01:21:12 PM
Your computer glasses should be fine for the Rift. It seems to focus around 24" based on my own glasses. Just make sure they fit inside the Rift, smaller frames are better, and they don't contact the Rift lenses.
You might consider prescription inserts. Sik1 posted this link in another thread. https://widmovr.com/product/oculus-rift-prescription-lenses-adapter/
Title: Re: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: terrydew on July 23, 2017, 03:33:18 PM
Your computer glasses should be fine for the Rift. It seems to focus around 24" based on my own glasses. Just make sure they fit inside the Rift, smaller frames are better, and they don't contact the Rift lenses.
You might consider prescription inserts. Sik1 posted this link in another thread. https://widmovr.com/product/oculus-rift-prescription-lenses-adapter/
I think it is your distance vision that is needed for the rift or at least that's the answer I got when researching it?
Title: Re: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: FLS on July 23, 2017, 04:18:29 PM
I think it is your distance vision that is needed for the rift or at least that's the answer I got when researching it?
I thought the same thing. I could be wrong but my impression now is that the binocular vision gives the correct depth perception but the distance you focus is just to the screens, with the fresnel lenses moving the plane of focus a comfortable distance away from your eyes.
Ntrudr may need a different prescription for optimal vision but my guess is the reading glasses will work.
It's important to line up the eye, Rift, and glasses lenses for clarity.
Title: Re: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: Flossy on July 26, 2017, 05:23:09 AM
Ntrudr may need a different prescription for optimal vision but my guess is the reading glasses will work.
Reading glasses will not improve it, in fact quite the opposite if you have myopia (short-sightedness) which is the inability to focus on distant objects. The fresnel lenses built into the Oculus headset have a correction that allows people with good eyesight to appear as if they are viewing an object at a distance when it is only an inch or so from their eyes. The only other place (apart from the site quoted above) that I know does prescription lenses for the Oculus and the Vive are vr-lens-lab.com. It is worth visiting their website for a good explanation of how both the Oculus and their lenses work technically. My husband has a pair of those lenses which work perfectly, and I have a pair on order which coincidentally should be arriving today.
My husband advises NOT to wear ordinary spectacles inside the headset. The lenses on his first Oculus became scratched due to contact with the glasses; fortunately, that Oculus had a fault (fortunate for him) and the whole headset was replaced, which was one way to get rid of the scratches - lesson learned.
Title: Re: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: FLS on July 26, 2017, 09:41:27 AM
Flossy I am very myopic and wear glasses with my Rift so my advice is from my own experience. It seems to me that the focus is closer than I expected in the Rift but distance is rendered normally by the binocular vision from the 2 different screens in the headset. Maybe it's just the pixels that focus closer and not the image but I can use my reading glasses or my normal glasses. The reading glasses aren't as clear for distance but they are good enough to use. Somebody with better corrected eyesight may have a different experience.
I think Ntrudr's single vision reading glasses may be better than progressive lenses. The focus changes in the Rift as you move the headset up and down so it's important that everything lines up correctly. I don't have progressive lenses so I don't know if that's an issue with them.
I agree the inserts are a better idea than wearing glasses. :aok
Title: Re: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: FLS on July 26, 2017, 05:28:59 PM
I've seen a reference to the Rift CV1 focus distance being 2 meters, attributed to Michael Abrash of Oculus but I didn't see anything definitive on the Oculus site.
It may be that with the limited resolution it makes no sense to focus further than you have a clear image. Focusing at infinity creates problems with near focus so a closer focus distance addresses both issues.
Title: Re: Rift Summer Sale!
Post by: 1stpar3 on July 26, 2017, 09:36:31 PM
Reading glasses will not improve it, in fact quite the opposite if you have myopia (short-sightedness) which is the inability to focus on distant objects. The fresnel lenses built into the Oculus headset have a correction that allows people with good eyesight to appear as if they are viewing an object at a distance when it is only an inch or so from their eyes. The only other place (apart from the site quoted above) that I know does prescription lenses for the Oculus and the Vive are vr-lens-lab.com. It is worth visiting their website for a good explanation of how both the Oculus and their lenses work technically. My husband has a pair of those lenses which work perfectly, and I have a pair on order which coincidentally should be arriving today.
My husband advises NOT to wear ordinary spectacles inside the headset. The lenses on his first Oculus became scratched due to contact with the glasses; fortunately, that Oculus had a fault (fortunate for him) and the whole headset was replaced, which was one way to get rid of the scratches - lesson learned.
:furious :furious :furious wOULD HAVE BEEN NICE TO know EARLIER LOL yUP, MINE i COULDNT TELL THEY WERE EVEN MAKING CONTACT. sCRATCHED THE rIFT AND MY GLASSES SOMETHING FIERCE :uhoh