Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: DoctorYO on April 28, 2000, 08:38:00 AM
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To HighTech and crew:
First off I think as of current you have the best sim, yes it needs refinement but the basic engine is there. Good Job!
Time and time again on this board i see your customers asking for a two country arena, A historical arena, a arena with no icons, etc...etc....
Every nite i log on and see the events arena i cringe.. I say WTF they have a arena its not used...
Why is testing not being implemented on these features that some of your customers are requesting.
If i can set up a HTH with the feature some of these people are asking for in like 2 mins
What is stopping you from setting up the current events arena for testing in 30secs or less....
Not squeaking just basic business sense... No extra overhead to you, customer gets a taste of what he/she wants, and you get testing in which people pay $30 for....
This is a proven model, Sony/Verant's Everquest is a classic example.. Email them for yourself im shure they would be very helpful.. maybe even line up some corporate accounts...Granted they are 100 times the size of you company in revenue but considering you already have this arena its of no real extra expense to you...Its win/win for you...If it is not please inform us as such and we will stop bugging the crap out of you..
Each time you are pressured to answer you give a opinionated response this wont work, this will upset my current customers etc.etc. etc...
just alittle advice in todays hightech world(no pun intended 8D) Stop talking about it and do, and do, do... let the customer decide.
This is like throwing away that old pentium or 486, simply insane to the those who would dare not to use such old technology.(Turn that dino into router/ldp firewall/team lamchop Seti@home etc...)
You have the resources:
Now DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOO!!!!!
trust me no action at all will kill you in this business look at wild bill's failure.
Some more advice while im ranting. Ever think of web hosting... You have talent in web design.. you have servers you have T's why not deversify to offset your current expenses.
But then again what do i know theres is no money to be made in web hosting. 8D 8D 8D
Flame on
DoctorYO
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A H/A would ROCK! I would spend 95% of my time in it.
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Amen.....
We do need an HA very badly.....
My fingers are getting sore in the MA from answering the same question, "How do I start my engine?" over and over again.
The HA is the ONLY thing I still go back to Warbirds to fly to keep some sanity, or I would have cancelled my WB account by now.
Regards,
Badger
[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 04-28-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 04-28-2000).]
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Yes, count me in as well for an HA!
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Apache
Renegade Nation (http://members.xoom.com/ApacheXL/index.htm)
"Abandon All Hope"
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Count the 332nd in also! It's one of the few things that we miss from Brand W.
Also, I keep hearing people asking for a place where they can have a tank vs tank battle with NO F4U's! Can we have a dedicated tank arena? Keep it smaller, less big hills, lots of little ridges etc.?
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Maj Ghosth
XO 332nd Flying Mongrels
(http://www.ropescourse.org/cghosth.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Ghosth (edited 04-28-2000).]
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There is simply no room for an HA in this sim....it will kill the business HTC has worked so hard to build.
Now that web hosting idea........... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Rude Out!
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You say that they have the resources? Are you forgetting about man power resources? Right now, HTC is turning out a huge amount of work in a short period of time. Their work seems to be concentrated on adding new strategical elements to the game, extending the plane set and polishing things up (which I am all for).
The special events arena you speak of is configured the way the MA is now. 3 countries, the same plane set, etc.. HTC can't just wiggle their nose and *POOF* it becomes a 2 country historical arena complete with a full WWII plane set. They'd have to dedicate man hours to the conversion, which would mean selling short other areas of development (which I am not for).
Beyond all that, what historical era of WWII could be simulated right now with the plane/vehicle set limited to two japanese and russian fighters, only U.S. bombers, and only German tanks?
Personally, I want to see HTC continue what they are doing. Concentrate on adding new planes & vehicles, creating new strategic elements and polishing up the game. Development in those areas benefits both the main arena and a future historical arena. When we've got a plane/vehicle set appropriate for a historical arena, then start considering it.
Gordo
Fat DRUNK Bastards (http://fdb.50megs.com/)
[This message has been edited by Lance (edited 04-28-2000).]
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Originally posted by Rude:
There is simply no room for an HA in this sim....it will kill the business HTC has worked so hard to build.
With all due respect "rude", your marketing philosophy is lost on me. I'm just a country boy, so perhaps I've missed something fundamental about the successful business model of multiplayer on-line simulations. We are currently seeking substantial private placement and public investments in this medium, so your feedback would be appreciated.
Could you elaborate on what the negative impact would be on HTC's flat rate revenue stream by providing an HA, when they already have a scenario arena that sits idle most of the time?
Regards,
Badger
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Badger, I believe Rude was having a "Humour Fit" when he wrote that (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
On the other hand, I have to agre with Lance on the fact that the HTC team is already busy & that we will SOON have the terrain editor in our hands :
TERRAIN EDITOR = HISTORICAL MAPS (As well)
when we have these, IT IS ONLY UP TO US to do the remaining organisation folks !
<Patton mode On>
Do you realy have to get everithing put in your hands ? Can't you have A LITTLE immagination ?
<Patton mode Off>
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Saw/Saintaw
=XO=II/JG2~Richthofen~
GMT T.O.D. SITE (http://www.wardogs.org/ah/)
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/saw190.gif)
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
Don't shoot ! I am only an observer......
[This message has been edited by Saintaw (edited 04-28-2000).]
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Hi Lance....
Perhaps I just don't get it, but I fail to see the potential drain on any programming resources at HTC to provide an HA. There's nothing to do except alter some on-line variables and perhaps delegate to a trainer the ability to alter those parameters.
It would be real simple.
When there's no designated scenario scheduled for the currently empty most of the time Special Events arena, then it's regular status would be HA.
1. Limited distance view icons.
2. No radar when in flight.
3. Reduced plane set to reflect some historical reality
4. I could care less about terrain currently, until we have the editor up and running.
5. Two countries by direct setup, or if that's not possible, simply disable any selected third country from take off.
Again, perhaps there's something that is completely lost on me about the magnitude of what's required here, so I'm listening.
Regards,
Badger
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Originally posted by Saintaw:
Badger, I believe Rude was having a "Humour Fit" when he wrote that (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
hehehe...thanks Saw....duh!!!
Being old has its drawbacks. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I missed the humor, but that's not unusual for me.
Sorry "rude". (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Regards,
Badger
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Badger has nailed on the nose maybe i wasn't clear or that pinhead who replied earlier is on crack...
Change the settings to that arena.. and get some solid feedback for same bat price, same bat servers.. stay tuned.
the current Events arena is empty 99.9% of the time....
one more time:
the current events arena is empty 99.9% of the time....
Nuff said; out
DoctorYO
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I agree with what was said! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Swager
I/JG2~Richthofen~
"Damn.....I can't believe I missed that shot!!!"
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/swager.jpg)
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
[This message has been edited by Swager (edited 04-28-2000).]
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I respectfully ask if there are plans for an HA. 190's and 109's vs. P51's, P38's and Spits, yeah baby!
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Just a thought or a guess...
Could they be waiting for a certain sized player base before introducing another arena? Mebbe we just dont't have the numbers yet to divide between the MA and an HA.
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hmmmmm.....
Ok, so it seems a lot of people want to see a historical arena. I'm sure that HTC are gonna see this and say.....yup, ok, you want it you got it......
However, first of all comes the plane set. We've got to wait while they model some Axis bombers, more fighters.....and then extensively test to make sure one sides forces dont completely outfly the others. (NOTE: Dont give me any arguments about certain plane's quality. This is a game and has to be kept balanced.)
Secondly, someones gotta decide on a date system. What we don't want is all the planes available all the time.......when it's 1940 I wanna fly hurricanes.......
Thirdly, the map's gotta be done. Next question is....how many? Cant have Nik's flying around France.......which means more than 1 map. Europe, Africa, Eastern Front, Pacific? Bloody hell, thats a lot of work.
And maps sure couldn't be 1:1, flight times would be waaaaay to long.
Has HTC thought of all this? Probably.
But no annoucements have been made.
A historical arena is a great idea and I know there's loads of us who'd never come out. But it's not a five minute project.
Swoop
<Screamin Meenies>
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IF there were an HA you would find me, like several of you there 99% of the time. It just does not float my boat flying a P-38 shooting down Spits, P-51's and other Allied aircraft. Same holds true when flying for the Axis.
The 332nd uses the SEA every Sunday at 3 PM Eastern time unless another event is going on. Everytime we use it, it is a historical setup.
Snapshots (http://www.ropescourse.org/snapshot.htm)
I am all for a Historical Arena. I don't think we will have long to wait with the new maps due to come out. Just remember one step at a time.
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daddog
332nd Flying Mongrels (http://www.ropescourse.org/flying.htm)
(http://www.ropescourse.org/cdaddog.jpg)
Where men become friends and friends become brothers.
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I coulnt care less about an HA. I would make a beeline for a furball arena. The real problem IMHO with both ideas is the number of people playing. At off hours there are just not enough of us to go around.
The amazing thing is HTC has givin us the ability to build any kind of arena we want, and it is free to boot. We need to work on our whining. Some of it is getting down right silly. We can do better than this boys.
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As much as I would love a HA arena I don't think it will happen for a while, AH just does not have enough players to fill one MA arena. Even WB's HA arena suffers with a lack of numbers which hardly makes it histroic with a few planes basically meeting up on a historical map for a furball.
Perhaps our energies would be better directed at taking away some of the crutches in the MA like the inflight radar and a reduction in icon range etc. Personally I'd like to see the planeset padded out before HTC channel their energies into things like a HA.
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Revvin
249 Squadron RAF
Tangmere Wing
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HA, most of the time for me.
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One thing nobody has mentioned in the HA issue is this:
Warbirds has an HA. They have a good HA. It is pretty much exactly what the HA types want.
But, NOBODY flies in the HA.
The Warbird HA diehards would go begging online and on AGW for others to fly in the HA, to no avail. Less than 20 usually inhabited the HA at any one time, often less than 10, even when there would be 200 in the MA.
When you are in an arena of less than 20 planes, the fights are way to few and far between. So, even those that love the HA will usually abandon it for the MA. If someone wants to fly alone, they can do that offline.
My personal feeling is, the HT crews time is much better spent improving on what they have and moving forward, not using rescources on an arena that would be woefully underused.
This is of course just my opinion, but I do base it on previous experience with an online sim that has an HA.
Dago
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Dag:
Warbirds HA is not flat rate. Many don't fly because of the added time to gain alt to enter a fight. AH already has that issue licked. I believe the problem is a pricing problem.
I think it would be different in AH but can't prove it without trying.
Ram1
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Originally posted by Dago:
But, NOBODY flies in the HA.
Actually, I thought Nobody is a MA type (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) He is a great HTH opponent too.
Now give us the HA and let cannon Hog stay away from ETO.
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I too would love to see AHHA (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(Aces High Historical Arena)
I would like to add one comment to all the good, practical ideas expressed above...
Aces High bills us a flat monthly rate. WarBirds bills $2.00 bucks an hour. Seems to me that makes all the difference in the world.
ooops....LOL just noticed my ol squaddie Ram1 just said it too:
"Dag:
Warbirds HA is not flat rate. Many don't fly because of the added time to gain alt to enter a fight. AH already has that issue licked. I believe the problem is a pricing problem.
I think it would be different in AH but can't prove it without trying.
Ram1 "
As one of the guys who helped make the HA the GREATEST thing in WarBirds, Ram1 KNOWS of what he speaketh.
Hey Raml, come head up AHHA for us (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Av8r
[This message has been edited by av8r (edited 04-28-2000).]
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Heck, gimme the terrain editor, I give you the HA map, full with Europe, Asia and African theaters (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Heya Ram1, it's nice to see you posting over here (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I desperately hope we get an AHHA soon, although I think we need a few more planes first.
WB's HA (and training) was what kept me playing WB the last 3 months I played it. WB's HA was good when it first opened, but when they gave Ram1 control of it, it realy blossommed. Many good air battles were faught there. I vote for him running the AHHA too (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
udie
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I've been holding off on signing up with Aces High until some sort of historical aircraft matchup is offered on a regular basis. I don't see "scenarios" as the clear cut answer to this need either. I'd like to have a historically based arena with an "open" format so that we can plan our own missions according to our own schedules.
Ivedog
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Originally posted by DoctorYO:
....the current Events arena is empty 99.9% of the time....
one more time:
the current events arena is empty 99.9% of the time....
hehe...you know, I love you guys, but I swear, many of you don't read and assimilate much of what is written before you start posting. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
We are NOT talking about a NEW arena. DoctorYo tried to synthesize the essence of the issue real simply.
THE SPECIAL EVENTS ARENA IS EMPTY , CERTAINLY OVER 90% OF THE TIME.
So, why not simply assign a trainer (as they do in WB) so that NO HTC staff resources are required to have the current SEA setup as a pseudo HA style when it's not in use. It is obvious from the responses here and also on-line chatter, that there's a sufficient membership to utilize it as a daily HA, more than currently uses it daily as a SEA. It is my personal opinion that by doing so, HTC would draw increased sign-ups away from WB and other competitors to come. Again, we do not need realistic terrain at this point, but simply no radar, icons reduced substantially and a plane set balance with limitations, plus 2 countries if possible.
This doesn't seem to me to be a huge magnitude of change and would satisfy many HTC customers. I'm not exactly sure why some are posting to this thread that they don't want an HA. To me, it's an academic argument that has absolutely no bearing on the way they use the game. The MA continues to be there for their enjoyment and the currently empty SEA would be there for an alternative group who are tired of answering the repeated "how do I take off ?" questions every 3 minutes.
Perhaps I completely miss the point, if so, I am listening and am prepared to stand corrected.
Regards,
Badger
[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 04-29-2000).]
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I would like to ask a question of the strat guys. If WW11OL does go gold. How many of you are going to hang around here. And what happens to the resources that HTC might put into it.
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Easymo-
Personally, I think I'll stay. That isn't to say that I won't look at any competing product, but I develop strong loyalties to a product and stick with it until I'm driven away.
You seem to suggest (and correct me if I'm wrong) that HTC would be wasting time with an HA because WWIIOL will be better at that aspect. If that is your point, consider this: WB, AW, MSCFS, FA, EAW and SDOE all do some things better than AH. The question is, do they balance it all better than AH? For me, no, and that's why I am here.
Opening an HA would not be a mistake; it would broaden the base of users. I would split my time over all the arenas, and play the game every way within the spirit of the rules. Some people might stay in one area or another, but never hurts to have options. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
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I`ll be staying with Aces High,the thought of the endless early war stuff bores me to tears.Theres also the factor that in order to progress into bigger-better equipment will require a substantial commitment of time.
I expect I`ll download the beta and give the airwar a go-but I doubt it will keep my interest too long.
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I find it interesting, that with a chance to stand up and be counted (in the only way that matters,cash flow) the only posts are from HTC trainers.
What I can visulize is a situation where people get board with taking orders from a 16 year old gen. and long boring escort flights. And want to jump into a quick furball. Where do they jump if HTC is trying to out strat WW11OL. Ill be honest here. If im going to have strat shoved down my throet. Then im going to go with the best one. Im just as likely to jump ship as anyone if HTC keeps going the same way.
last i would like to say it is way to early for HTC to toss in the towel. People who know more about it than me, doubt that the rats can pull it off. And the HTC boys have proven already that they can get the job done. But if there going to open another arena. They should open the beta arena back up, leave the bombers/tanks in the main, and grab a peice of the furball market.
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easymo:
lots of people read these threads without letting their heads be counted, in spite of what the general told them ;=)
Ok count me in then.And Im not a trainer ;=)
danish
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Now a sec arena would devide the community, when I fly theres mostly 50-90 people online in MA, say that 20-40 of em disapered to HA?
It would leave 30-50 people left. 30-70 people devided into 3 countrys would give 10-17 people per country. Then devide theese into 3 fields, etc,etc,etc
It would be very hard to find a fight
Now this would really suck a big one!
Would prefere a HA arena, but it would only damage the AH they way it looks now.
BORK,BORK,BORK!!
Crabofix "Crabus Maximus"
[This message has been edited by crabofix (edited 04-30-2000).]
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Badger's got it right. You need 1 or 2 guys who have experience in setting up an arena and then monitoring occassionaly, then you can experiment.
Hi Udie and Av8r, Natasha misses both of you <VBG>. No plans to move over to AH at the moment. I want to see what WB-III has to offer. I also want to see if there is any commitment on AH's part for Historical activity as opposed to the general arena mayhem stuff. And I am also waiting on WW2online to see if that satisfies the Historical recreation side.
Aren't choices wonderful (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
BTW, Smiley and I are now flying with the 31st FG run by Daddy, lb, sharky. Its a Historical Squad and we are beginning to tie in with actual Veterans from that fighter group, so its quite interesting. I'll be at the Warbirds Con in June if you guys plan to be around Raleigh/Durham June 22-25, let me know.
Ram1
[This message has been edited by Ram1 (edited 04-30-2000).]
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I'm 2 minds about the HA. (yes its all I flew in WB and I love it more than I will ever love any main arena)
mind 1:
the player base is not large enough to be divided.
organization like in the S3's and SL's in WB was never there.
the HA was always lopsided duw to aircraft deficiencies.
Main Arena demands more flying skill due to larger variety of planes one faces.
mind2:
I love the Historical matchup
10 people in an HA is worth 50 in an MA to me
I prefer longer flights looking for the enemy
I find NO ICONS extremely enjoyable even though its difficult.
so all in all...
I think the SEA should be configured as a unofficial "HA" with icons disabled and country 3 disabled along w allied vs axis plane set. it will be sparsely habitated but fun for those there who are die hard History fans
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And that seems to be the best compromise. Take the SEA, disable one country, limit plane choices to allied/axis per side, reduce icons, and see what happens. The B26 will have to be available to both sides, but aside from that there should be enough planes to make it worthwhile. It can run this way by defualt (unless a scenario is planned).
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I think our thread is wandering off the topic slightly, now asking who's switching to WWII On-line when it comes live. I never comment on alphas, betas or screenshots, but I have to admit that I have a keen interest in more than just the flight sim aspect of my on-line entertainment.
I would like to participate in a more realistic ground element of tank warfare, then AH is able to give us as a secondary focus. For example, I was engaging in "tank to tank" combat yesterday and was consistently taken out by "3fingers" at ranges from 5.2 to 7.5k. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) NOTE: there are no icons visible at those ranges, so simply lowering icon ranges wouldn't make an iota of difference here. By the way, as an aside, he's an awesome "tread head" and would have made an incredible real life gunner, having a natural feel for range and movement. If you guys want some Panzer IV training, then "he's da man"!!! Anyway, my point is that those engagement ranges are "quake like" and actually approach the theoretical range of at least vintage Sherman APDS.
So, will I switch to WWII On-line? Well, I will be trying the beta (closed if possible) and I'll let you know. If it provides me greater satisfaction in tanks, plus a more HA type capability for the flight sim portion, probably YES, but dependent upon other factors.
Easymo made an astute observation, which is unusual for him. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) There are a lot of "little generals" over on the WWII On-line BBS. I notice a huge bunch of youngsters setting themselves up as "Supreme Commanders" etc. I think there's a good chance that the teen element could dominate the WWII On-line environment, which is not something I would be able to handle, even if the software supported the tank warfare realistically. I already went through puberty and its ego stuff once, I really don't want to watch the instant replays. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) I also notice that WWII On-line's BBS is also starting to see the same cliquish self centric characters that dominate Argo's BBS for WB. I'm sure we all know who they are. Some of these guys are scary and apparently believe their own press releases about themselves. IMHO, they have helped lead to some of the deterioration of the WB community that used to have the kind of positive vibrancy seen here in AH.
So much of what makes AH really enjoyable for me today, is the sense of community and camaraderie that has developed so quickly. Simply look at the way this AH extended virtual family responds to someone who posts a message about a personal need or tragedy and this is to an individual they've probably never even met before. That says a lot about the overall character and maturity of the AH environment to date. If that holds, then I would probably stay here regardless of the direction of the competitive alternatives.
Sorry for the long winded dramatics, but sometimes I have to have a soapbox too. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
BTW, back on topic, I still would like an HA. The WB one is operated by RAM1 and VERT with incredible dedication and variety (no drain on iEN resources). I don't see why we can't set the SEA up as an HA during off hours here. I heard ripsnort and kieren volunteer to handle it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Regards,
Badger
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I'm with Citabria. The Arena already exists to make the unofficial changes to a Historical Arena. The Special Events Arena is almost always used as an Axis versus Allies event, or it wouldn't be historical, so why not make the changes and let pilots use it as an ongoing Historical Arena right now.
I just can't see any reason why not.
Ranger Bob
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I'm all for an HA...
would fly there exclusively.
HOWEVER.....
So far we have enjoyed constant updates in a timely manner, some have been simply amazing in the amount of time it didn't take to get something fixed.
If staff were pulled from that duty, to get a planeset fixed,, then there goes the timely updates.....
We do not yet enjoy the size of planeset needed for HA environment.
Give em time,, it'll get here.
Sure currently there is a hue and cry for a HA. I'd add my voice in an instant.
IMHO, the customer base, (so far) is not large enough to sustain one by itself.
Who would bother to go there if there were only 5-10 flyers there.
Some of the comments I've heard over the years was just that concerning the WB HA..
unless it was prime time weekend, it just wasn't that much fun to go to HA. And by a couple of peoples own comments, their Squads boycotted till their preferred plane came around.
I say give 'em time.
HTC has done wonders for us this past 8 months.... Lets let them do their thing, I would be willing to bet that they'll continue to amaze and astound us as they do theirs..
meanwhile ENJOY (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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GreyBeard, Squadron Leader
Commander, "E" Flight, Aces High
Senior Staff Council
"The Skeleton Crew"
"Fly with Honor"[/i]
"Keepin' the Faith"