Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: onions4u on October 20, 2005, 02:25:07 AM
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only way i've found of surviving a ram is to play on dial up. My question to HT is my son plays battlefield 2 online when two planes r helicopters hit they both go down why not in Aces High ? Just had a niki head one me today but the worst was yesterday when i was rammed from the rear in B24s and
I went down and fighter stayed up there must be a way to fix it. Even today i was in tiffie and was rammed by niki . Typhoon is a bigger plane than niki we both shot i got hits so did he but niki gets credit for kill.
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My ping has been worse this week, 97 versus the normal 63-67 for me. I notice with that little tiny bit of speed decrease that I can now survive a collision when I rarely survived before. It also seems that my gunnery is better on a slower connection...I agree...think I may go dial up to log in to AHII and keep the DSL just for porn down-loads. Did I say that out load?
:-)
Dawg out
WooF!
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onions4u,
Do a search on "ramming" "collisions" or some other word of that nature. It has been explained over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
And no, being on dial up has no effect. The only way to survive a collision is to avoid the collision and that can only be done by you.
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Here we go again......
:eek:
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Originally posted by onions4u
only way i've found of surviving a ram is to play on dial up.
:rofl
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Originally posted by MaddogWx
.think I may go dial up to log in to AHII and keep the DSL just for porn down-loads. Did I say that out load?
ROFL
More than you meant to, I`m sure.
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http://www.okondr.mail333.com/rammed.jpg
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When you think you're going to crash, either bail out or look away :aok
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No being on dial up does not make ramming work to ones advantage... I live out in the stix and can only get dial up and usually if i'm doing a HO and don't pull out in time I get killed.:) usually with a duel colision message I collided and so and so collided with me.
The best way I have found to survive a ram was when I was flying a 190A5 and had a N1K on my tail, I quickly stalled out my plane cut all power and made him ram my tail. :D I got the kill and no damage for some reason.
Another time a Typhoon was diveing on the rear of my bombers and hit me and I got the same result.. Maybe the trick is to only let people ream you in the rear???? lol boy that looks bad and if my wife ever sees it she is either going to be asking some questions or wanting to try something new LOL :eek: :O
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Originally posted by Schatzi
Here we go again......
:eek:
I understand the your end/my end explanation but there are some rams I've experienced that just dont seem right.
And I dont agree with that explanation
Such as a ram that ends up so dead centered that our props on my end would literally have had to hit and if it were IRL we would be eating each others teeth yet one plane seems to fly away undamaged.
I've been on both ends of this of this.
One where my plane is heavily damaged while the other flies away without so much as a part flying off and I've had some where "XXXX Pilot has collided with you" message comes up when it was obvious to me that we collided even without the message. Yet I've flown away unscathed. And without so much as a scratch
One such collision happened just last night.
A spit and I collided and my plane was in shambles while he flew away unscathed. Now if it was slightly off to the left/right/above/below I could understand the lag/your end/my end explanation But this was so dead center that I dont see how he could have flown away unscathed.
Like I said I've been on both ends of this
And while I understand the explanation I dont agree that everything is working as it should with the collision model
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Well, it actually has to do with the game model more then the collision model.
It's the difference between Client Side Games, and Server Side Games.
In a Client Side game (aces high), everything you do is decided by your computer. Once it has decided, it then sends the information to the server saying, "I've done so and so."
In a Server Side game (Unreal Tournament), most everything you do is decided by the server. Say you want to shoot. Your computer sends a message to the server saying, "I just pulled the trigger." The server sends you back information saying, "Ok, you've shot the gun. The bullet went here."
Now, Server Side games are good for fewer players. You have more exact positioning. However, every single move needs to be calculated by the Server. So then you get Lag. The more people, the heavier it is.
Client Side games are better for many players. You have less exact positioning (ala collision discrepencies) but the load is a lot less on the Server. There is far more less calculated by the server because it is not figuring out what is going on, it is just recieving your information and reporting it to the other players.
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I just know on cable i never survive ram, and when im in bombers and get ramed from the rear its hard to avoid. The reason I posted this wore out subject was because I was watching my son play battlefield 2 online and when two aircraft hit each other they both go down. Just wandering why in that game they both go down but not aces high.
When im on dial up I survive 40 to 50 % of the time.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
One such collision happened just last night.
A spit and I collided and my plane was in shambles while he flew away unscathed. Now if it was slightly off to the left/right/above/below I could understand the lag/your end/my end explanation But this was so dead center that I dont see how he could have flown away unscathed.
Like I said I've been on both ends of this
The question is not whats happens or how fast the connection is, the question is what either of you *sees* at the moment a collision happens.
You saw that spit colliding with you. Dead center. I assume that you got damage from that collision, right?
On *his* computer, he flew about 100 yds to the right (or any other direction) of you. *He* never saw you colliding with him, hence he gets no damage.
Now the server is 'informed' about the flight paths and whats happened to the planes (ie your damage and his 'non-damage). He flies away, you 'die.
If you want me to, i can send you a film of a collision Schutt had with a spitfire, while i was chasing said Spitfire. (I know they collided cause he told me so). I never saw them getting even *close* to each other. On my front end they never collided.
Not fair? True. But the alternatives arent really fair either. Imagine both get damaged if one collides.... fair? You avoided any collision and just because the other guy didnt, you get killed as well?? In extreme numbers... on merge you fly by each other at d100, cause of lag/savvis/whatever funky net reason a collision is registered. Bang both dead.
So IMHO we all just have to live with it the way it is. At least we now get the messages...
PS: I always compare it to the CV problem. Not sure if thats really the same (me=computer tard). But when you sit on a CV and someone else takes off/lands, they sometimes sit up to 200 yds away, on the CV deck as shown on *their* front end.
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Originally posted by onions4u
I just know on cable i never survive ram, and when im in bombers and get ramed from the rear its hard to avoid. The reason I posted this wore out subject was because I was watching my son play battlefield 2 online and when two aircraft hit each other they both go down. Just wandering why in that game they both go down but not aces high.
Because that is nt remotely what it looked like on his end. He did not fly through you at all. If he had flown through you on his FE he would have suffered a collision as well and no difference in connection speed would have helped him.
If he has a poor connection and he collides with you on his screen he will be destroyed and you would have seen him miss you by 50 or 100 yards. Connection speed is 100% irrelevant.
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Originally posted by onions4u
I just know on cable i never survive ram, and when im in bombers and get ramed from the rear its hard to avoid. The reason I posted this wore out subject was because I was watching my son play battlefield 2 online and when two aircraft hit each other they both go down. Just wandering why in that game they both go down but not aces high.
When im on dial up I survive 40 to 50 % of the time.
Irrelevant, if you read Schatzi's post you may understand this. Fact is if you register a collision you take damage. That is a fact. There is no such thing as surviving a collision unless you just scrap the other plane.
Maybe this will make it clear:
(--- is what you see, ~~~ is what he sees)
Your FE Opponents FE
~~~~~~~~~~~>
-------------------> <----------------------
............................. <~~~~~~~~~~~
(^ignore the dots, bbs strips spaces)
On his end he sees you so many yards to his right, you see him dead in front of you. The only one who can maneuver to avoid the collision is the one who sees the impending collision.
This is what also explains why you take bullet damage from a plane you swear does not have a guns solution on you. On his end he does, and bullet damage is modeled completely different from collision damage. In bullet damage if either FE see the hit it is registered. (well, I believe that is correct because I remember reading this on this BBS. Don't have time to search and verify it though)
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I'm pretty sure that Bullet Damage is only registered on the shooter's FE. I've had tracers pass through my wings before without damaging them.
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Clifra Jones,
No, bullet impacts are only tracked and detected on the shooter's FE. You do not get two chances to hit with bullets.
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This is my favorite collision and the wierdness can not be explained away by lag and such.
When you go HO with someone either flat and level both planes at 300mph plus, or, say one is roping the other and coming down in the vertical. The HO collision frequently results in, not engine, wings, or vertical stab damage as you would expect, but damage to flaps and elevators! WTF? How do I get my flap and elevator knocked off in an HO collision while my wings and stab are fine?
I understand how the collision modeling works and I think HT has the best system in place. There's still some funky anomolies though.
None the less, the only time I ever have a collision is when I am too close. 95% of the time it's at least partially my fault.
g00b
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Schatzi - "PS: I always compare it to the CV problem. Not sure if thats really the same (me=computer tard). But when you sit on a CV and someone else takes off/lands, they sometimes sit up to 200 yds away, on the CV deck as shown on *their* front end."
If anyone gets this film it and send it to Skuzzy.
I've talked to him about this and it should NOT be happening, it's nothing to do with lag, but may be an indication of another problem.
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Rams ... a horrible football team !!!
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Originally posted by Karnak
Clifra Jones,
No, bullet impacts are only tracked and detected on the shooter's FE. You do not get two chances to hit with bullets.
Ahh like i said, wasn't sure on that one.
Thanks for clarifying.
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Originally posted by Schatzi
The question is not whats happens or how fast the connection is, the question is what either of you *sees* at the moment a collision happens.
You saw that spit colliding with you. Dead center. I assume that you got damage from that collision, right?
On *his* computer, he flew about 100 yds to the right (or any other direction) of you. *He* never saw you colliding with him, hence he gets no damage.
Now the server is 'informed' about the flight paths and whats happened to the planes (ie your damage and his 'non-damage). He flies away, you 'die.
If you want me to, i can send you a film of a collision Schutt had with a spitfire, while i was chasing said Spitfire. (I know they collided cause he told me so). I never saw them getting even *close* to each other. On my front end they never collided.
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Yes but I've also seen it where IMO We collided and obviously so. Yet the other guy suffered the damage and I did not.
what Im saying is there have been times where even on my end it looked like we collided. Yet he was the only one to get damage.
and to answer your question. about last night and the spit. Yes I got the damage.
100 yards or even 25 yards is a long distance to be off by from front end to front end.
but it would explain the times Ive been shot down from weird angles
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Jeez, I get my post out first and you quote him? :furious
I see the CV thing occasionally. Now if only I could remember to record it.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Jeez, I get my post out first and you quote him? :furious
I see the CV thing occasionally. Now if only I could remember to record it.
LOL For me the problem isnt remembering to record it but in predicting something is going to happen worth recording.
No ofence HTC but
99% the time some of the weird things we are told to "Record and send it on" you have to be able to predict they are going to happen in advance to record them
I HATE the way the film recorder works now.
Even if you do manage to record something you have to fish through the whole film. which could be a bunch of flights to find it.
That is why I would at least like the option to name and save films after each flight.
Or at least the option to automatically end films after each flight
LOL I dont need a film of whats going on in the tower
Could have it set up as an option in the startup menu. with little checkbox's
"End of flight film Saving & naming -Yes/No"
then after each filmed flight upon return to the tower you can have a Box popup "Name/save film? with -Yes/No" buttons
Default name could be time flight started renameable to something else.
If you have this turned on in setup then that is what would happen after each return to the tower.
If not it would simply stay the way it is now.
As it stands now I only very very rarely bother to film anything as I dont feel like searching for the spot I want to see and I dont want to fill up my HD with a bunch of which are otherwise useless films I dont bother watching
and IMO the film viewer & editor is just too much of a PIA to deal with.
Particularly with longer films
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Way too funny how many suffer much angst, get all torqued up, and get gray hairs over "rams".
Who gives a rats arse who collided with whom ... if you die you just get a new plane and start it all over again ... it's not like some bolt of lightining come out of the screen and blows your or their house up.
Some people are just wound way too tight and get all pissed off at such miniscule things such as "rams".
BUT ... the whine will NEVER END !!!
BS ... thats such BS ... you rammed me you lame jerk ... you rammed me and you fly away, thats such BS ... blah blah blah ... waaa ... waaa ... waaa.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Way too funny how many suffer much angst, get all torqued up, and get gray hairs over "rams".
Who gives a rats arse who collided with whom ... if you die you just get a new plane and start it all over again ... it's not like some bolt of lightining come out of the screen and blows your or their house up.
Some people are just wound way too tight and get all pissed off at such miniscule things such as "rams".
BUT ... the whine will NEVER END !!!
BS ... thats such BS ... you rammed me you lame jerk ... you rammed me and you fly away, thats such BS ... blah blah blah ... waaa ... waaa ... waaa.
Rams dont bother me that much.
I know 99% of the time its unintentional.
Pretty tough to actually ram someone intentionally
But I do see the arguement some have about only 1 plane receiving damage
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Thats my point DRED ... what is there to argue ? ... you collided ... you are dead ... you can get a new plane and start again ... all brandy new !!!
They are really pissin' and moanin' not about that they collided and are now flying trash ... they are pissin' and moanin' that the other guy hasn't been trashed. They really should be pissed at themselves for colliding and not cause the other guy is flying away ... they are only diverting the focus on the real cause of the problem.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Schatzi - "PS: I always compare it to the CV problem. Not sure if thats really the same (me=computer tard). But when you sit on a CV and someone else takes off/lands, they sometimes sit up to 200 yds away, on the CV deck as shown on *their* front end."
If anyone gets this film it and send it to Skuzzy.
I've talked to him about this and it should NOT be happening, it's nothing to do with lag, but may be an indication of another problem.
Its hard to film. Cause CVs on film are not neccessarily where they were when the film was recorded. I have a film of me landing on a CV (landed successfully), but if you watch the film, i land about a hundred yards left of the CV....
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Test all of this in the DA.
Test-1: 2 of you take off in the same plane type same load out. different countries. Climb to the same alt 6000 yds from each other. Agree on VOX when to turn and fly level back at each other. I might be wrong but you can tune to each other while in different countries. Both fly to ram head on. Film it and keep each other notified on VOX as you get close. Do this up to 10 times and note your round trip ping to the server and your connection methood. Dial-up, broad band, etc.
Test-2: Take off. Different countries. Climb to the same alt. Meet and one of you fly auto level with reduced throttle. The other fly in tandem and ram fro his six. Film it and keep in touch on VOX. Do it 10 times.
Test-3: do the same thing as test one. But HO each other 10 repeats. Film it.
Make the films available along with your connection information. Then we can all take a look.
:)
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here is the perfect experiment to demonstrate the one sided, due to what you see, collision thing.....
take off from a CV in the MA with film on, fly around for a few minutes but do not die. now go land on the same CV. exit the game and watch the film, get to the landing and notice where the CV is.
50% of the time it will be where you saw it, right beneath your wheels. the other 50% of the time on my connection (109ping) the CV will be anywhere upto 100 yrds away from where the film shows my plane to land. the plane still hits the wire and lands but in mid air where the deck should be.
so basically, when i landed the sortie the CV was showing to be in the wong place, but because of how it is coaded, i still get a safe landing on my fake CV.
i think thats fair.
same as if you see the ram then it gets you.
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eh???(http://www.furballunderground.com/freehost/files/6/crazy2.gif)
(http://www.furballunderground.com/freehost/files/6/ram.jpg)
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if that not easy to understand then either im mad or you are thick super :D
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can you look away and ram bombers withought getting hurt? seems like this could get exploited, the whole, who sees it deals it thing.
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:D
"Quick, hide behind this sheet of glass!!"
"But you can see through it!"
"Not...if you close your eyes!!!"
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Originally posted by eilif
can you look away and ram bombers withought getting hurt? seems like this could get exploited, the whole, who sees it deals it thing.
In this context "you" = "your FE"
What it means is, if your FE detects a collision (it doesn't need to be something that is redered on your monitor) then it reports it and you take damage.
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I had an interesting collision last night in the MA. I was flying a N1K2, and got involved in a HO with a LA7. We both turned out of the HO the same direction and got the collision notice. When I checked for damage, all that was damaged was my right landing gear??!! The LA7 kept flying also, not sure what happened to him, but he didn't go down from the collision.
Just thought landing gear tucked up inside my wing would be strange damage from a collision.
I just wish my Panzer could fly.