Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Devil 505 on January 07, 2012, 06:50:09 PM

Title: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Devil 505 on January 07, 2012, 06:50:09 PM
In progress pics of my first skin. Just the color scheme and panel lines at this point.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Rallskin2.png)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Rallskin1.png)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Rallskin3.png)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Rallskin4.png)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Rallskin5.png)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Rallskin6.png)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Rallskin7.png)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Rallskin8.png)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/RAllskin9.png)

Comments and criticism welcome.
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: SmokinLoon on January 07, 2012, 07:06:41 PM
I'm currently struggling with the simplicity of the M3, so I think this is shaping up nicely.   :aok
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Raphael on January 07, 2012, 08:04:10 PM
 :aok Looking good already! keep the WIP photos coming!  :D
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: FTJR on January 08, 2012, 10:07:03 AM
Good Start, but you see those saw tooth edges on your wing camo? You need to blur those to get rid of the teeth. But you knew that already right :0
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Volron on January 08, 2012, 11:47:32 AM
Good Start, but you see those saw tooth edges on your wing camo? You need to blur those to get rid of the teeth. But you knew that already right :0

The 1st thing to jump out at me were the lines.  But it's still a work in progress.


I like it. :aok  Going nicely so far. :x
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Devil 505 on January 08, 2012, 01:47:57 PM
Thanks for the comments.

Regarding the wing cammo, this aircraft is believed to have been built in the Erla plant. Erla built 109s had a sawtooth demarcation on the wings.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Erla1091.jpg)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Erla1092.jpg)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Erla1093.jpg)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/erla1094.jpg)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Erla1096.jpg)
Unfortunately, there are only a few pictures of the real aircraft.  Worse is that they show a few areas and not the whole aircraft, leaving much to the imagination.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Rall6.jpg)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Rall5.jpg)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Rall1.jpg)
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: The Fugitive on January 08, 2012, 03:04:51 PM
You have too many "bulges" in the camo edge. In the picture where you can see the right wing (3rd and 4th photos) there is only 7 bulges. On your skin it has like 15-18 for the same area. Thats why it looks more like it's "pixalated" than a scalloped edge.
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Devil 505 on January 08, 2012, 03:08:22 PM
yeah, i'm reworking the cammo now. its a pain.
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: FTJR on January 08, 2012, 11:15:50 PM
Wow, Ok Devil,  well done.
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: ink on January 08, 2012, 11:27:38 PM
I want to comment but its too early yet,so I will just say........ keep at it :aok
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Krusty on January 09, 2012, 12:39:02 PM
The entire tail being painted over is most likely not correct. If anything, the fuselage sides would be over-sprayed so that new markings could be applied, or in some cases the default camo was too "light" and it needed to be dulled down for ground cover.

Such overspray ends at the stabilizers in almost every case I've seen, since you cannot see beneath the stabilizers and they then act as the camouflage from above. the left/right of the fin is also left outouched in almost all cases. It's also hard to get under there to apply paint.

If you don't have a solid example to show that the tail should be marked that way, I might suggest toning it back significantly. Use more standard norms and conventions for Luftwaffe fuselage mottling. I know this wasn't really set in stone, but there are certain things to note (going off the top of my head here, and not specific to this plane) such as often the "spine" of the fuselage was left intact and the original camo was in place, but the sides and overlapping areas were painted over.

On a related note, there's an interesting discussion here:

http://ehangar.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2656

Note how he did Rall's plane in pencil? I'm not sure how much it says about the authenticity of it, but Gunther Rall himself signed the art. The artist here takes a more conventional approach to the camo.

On this photo:
(http://images.rcuniverse.com/forum/upfiles/294785/Vt58062.jpg)

You can see the dark camo (distinct from just "shadow" areas) but it doesn't wrap up and over the top, but rather curves horizontally just past the octane marking by the gas cap. Generally it was more effort to reach up and paint down. Most times it was applied by a man standing there reaching sideways, and so ergonomically you can see why they'd leave the upper surfaces most times.

On the non-oversprayed camo, you probably know this already  :D but I'll point out that there ought to be some camo demarcation on the uppder forward cowling. Often 2/3 back from prop to canopy it changes. The upper surfaces should still follow the splinter camo pattern, even if it's modified with sawtooths. I think your "green" may be a tad dark but it's hard to tell from screenshots and it's early progress yet so I won't get into that just yet. Which colors were you using on the upper surfaces? Is that supposed to be RLM02 or dark green?

Hope this helps. It's always interesting to see some new 109s!
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Devil 505 on January 09, 2012, 02:46:08 PM
Krusty,  thanks for your input on the subject. You make many valid points on the way 109s were usually painted. I will be changing the paint on the vert stab to a mottled pattern, both because of your argument, and that I find what I have so far a little bland. With the rear fuselage, that will not likely be changed. Part of what I like about this scheme is just how differant from the usual 109 schemes.

In terms of the colors used, I started with color swatches for RLM 74/75/76 from Simmers Paint Shop. http://www.simmerspaintshop.com/page-RGB-colors-Germany.html
I wanted to have the rear fuselage to be more green, so I replaced RLM 74 with 73. Probably not accurate but I like the shade. In reality, I'm guessing that RLM 70 was mixed into 74 to darken it an add a greenish tint. For RLM 75 on the nose and forward fuselage, I simply darkened the shade, finding the swatch given too light for my taste. The swatches for RLM 76 were not changed, and the given variations will be used to break up the underside color.

On the subject of the pencil drawings, they pretty much prove my point for more artistic license with this scheme. This artist doesn't even draw the same plane the same way twice. Couple this with the fact that there are so many variations of this scheme out there. It reminds me of the thread about your F-4 that you did for Marseille, only that you have more real pictures. What I have to go on are many contradicing profiles and a couple of snapshots.

 :cheers:

Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Devil 505 on January 09, 2012, 02:57:52 PM
Here are some of the profiles that I've found of this scheme.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Rall7.jpg)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Rall-1.gif)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Rall10.png)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/rall4.jpg)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Rall12.png)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Rall11.png)

some other atrwork.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Black13.jpg)

(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/WinterPatrol3.jpg)
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: ink on January 09, 2012, 03:29:13 PM
here is a way to give your paint a more natural look...

make sure your paint layer is selected....in the layer stack right click your paint layer and create a NEW layer..a window opens make sure "transparent" is selected.(you should name your layers to stop confusion later on)
name the new layer something like "paint_fading_1"

select your paint layer..... using the selection tool select all the base color paint....

 (a tip...when you use the selection tool if you hold left click and drag you can change the amount of selection)

select your new layer that you just made...(the selection you made works on any layer that is selected)

go to "Filters" (hint-you can just right click the large window to get to all the options on top of window.... where Filters is) then go to
"Render" go to "clouds" go to "plasma"  a window opens......... the more "turbulence you pick the more Mottled it will look....so this layer choose a small amount of "turbulence" click "OK"

a rainbow of colors appear....go to "Colors" then "desaturate"  not really important what you choose here..."lightness-Luminosity-Average"click them all..... choose one that you like...click OK

now on the right side where the layer stack is there is a drop down arrow called "Mode" go through each one to see what it does to change the paint underneath

for this I personally like "hard light" and then bring down the opacity to around 40 %

again just the steps are whats important...experimenting is where you find some great effects.....

do this again with a new layer but this time use a lot of turbulence when making the Plasma clouds...

things to remember

the proper layer is selected

if you are trying to do something but its not working a good chance is you selected something and never deselected...once you select an area whatever you do will ONLY effect the selected area.

Control Z is UNDO very IMPORTANT  :aok  in preferences you can change the amount of "UNDO's" allowed the more the better.


hope this helps a bit :salute

Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Devil 505 on January 09, 2012, 03:36:03 PM
Thanks INK, I'l be sure to give that a try. I've been thinking about ways to add some depth and variation to the paint.
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: ink on January 09, 2012, 03:41:39 PM
Thanks INK, I'l be sure to give that a try. I've been thinking about ways to add some depth and variation to the paint.

that will definitely do that for ya :aok

and no problem at all.

when you are doing your rivets let me know I know a way to rivet the whole plane in about 1 second :D

(ok not quite a second because the set up takes a bit of time....but once you click OK...literally ALL the rivets will be done in 1 second :rock)
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Charge on January 10, 2012, 04:46:13 AM
The panel lines stand out a bit too much on light blue underside. IRL there are only a few panel lines that can be seen from a distance so in general you might like to make those a bit less visible where as engine cowlings, slats and ailerons and elevators stand out more so you could use at least three line thicknesses. Particularly in the wings you should make the top plating limits almost invisible where as on lower side the wing there were a few larger panes which were visible since they were removable.

Also when you are weathering you can add detail more on lower side since there the weathering of panel lines show more as all the accumulated dirt tends to leak from removable panels, not through wing plating seams.

Might sound a bit complicated and for 109 it is, making a 190 is a bit easier since the paneling and different hatches are easier to make out in that one.

Also make the saw tooth pattern sharp on wing top camo, not rounded.

The colours look good.

 :aok

-C+
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Devil 505 on January 10, 2012, 08:26:05 PM
updated the cammo. First are the wings. I used a sharp pointed sawtooth pattern.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Rallskin10.png)
I don't really think the sharp points fit this scheme, so I'll probably round them off a bit.

Next is the tail. I removed the green, leaving it only on the leading edge. Then I added mottles in both green and gray.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Rallskin11.png)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Rallskin13.png)

For the full effect.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Rallskin12.png)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Rallskin14.png)
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: EskimoJoe on January 11, 2012, 12:45:00 AM
Wings look too sharp to me. Remember, they were painted on by ground crew with (assumingly) paint brushes!  :old:
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Devil 505 on January 11, 2012, 08:03:43 AM
Wings look too sharp to me. Remember, they were painted on by ground crew with (assumingly) paint brushes!  :old:

you might want to read the last page again. :old:
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Krusty on January 11, 2012, 09:40:29 AM
I think that a number of those art profiles are suspect. When you don't have exact resources of the plane in question, you have to look to similar planes from the same time and the same place to see what conventions they have.

Looking at a similarly painted plane from the same factory you can see they adhered to the upper surface camo patterns:

(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Erla1096.jpg)

This isn't the same plane but it's from the Erla lines and carries the sawtooth patterns.

You will pretty much never find a single solid grey color on the nose all the way from behind the cockpit to the spinner.

The only profile that seems to moderately match the photos of similar craft is:

(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Rall-1.gif)

However please note the coloring on this isn't the best. You will need to use what the standard colors were (RLM colors).

I think your over-spray is too low on the sides. Take a look here:

(http://www.nakatomitower.com/Rall-02.jpg)

You can see that it's showing the lichtblau sides and that the overspray reaches down through most of (but not all) of the cross. Maybe raise the lower "line" of the overspray to match?


I also still think that the overspray should go up the spine above the standard splinter camo line but not cover it all. It's just hard to find a photo of this craft.


EDIT: Fixed last image
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Devil 505 on January 11, 2012, 12:29:44 PM
I think that a number of those art profiles are suspect. When you don't have exact resources of the plane in question, you have to look to similar planes from the same time and the same place to see what conventions they have.
I agree for the most part, but to play devils advocate, most show the rear fuselage and tail as I originaly did it. There has to be some legimiate reason that so many differant artists depict this aircraft this way. 4 out of 5 dentists agree and such, right?  :devil

You will pretty much never find a single solid grey color on the nose all the way from behind the cockpit to the spinner.
If you look at this picture, the cammo looks like RLM 75 all the way to the canopy.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Rall1.jpg)
This picture shows the canopy frames also in RLM 75
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Rall5.jpg)
So as far as we can tell the entire forward fuselage is RLM 75 on the upper surfaces.

I totally agree on the lower demarkation of the dark fuselage cammo. Although I wont be correcting it until I place the crosses.

Thanks again Krusty. :cheers:
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Devil 505 on January 11, 2012, 04:14:03 PM
Ink, I'd like you tip for easy rivits please.
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: EskimoJoe on January 11, 2012, 04:36:08 PM
you might want to read the last page again. :old:

What I'm saying is the edges look too sharp, like modern digital camo with perfect angles and whathaveyou.

They don't look like they were painted on ush so much as lasered on.

I'm no expert but this is what I see.
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Devil 505 on January 11, 2012, 04:55:42 PM
What I'm saying is the edges look too sharp, like modern digital camo with perfect angles and whathaveyou.

They don't look like they were painted on ush so much as lasered on.

I'm no expert but this is what I see.
Ah, gotcha.  :aok
I added a blur filter to that layer and it helped a bunch.
 :cheers:
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: ink on January 11, 2012, 05:02:47 PM
you have a tool called the "Paths tool" 

that will be how you lay out the rivets

take the default skin and make it a layer... add a new transparent layer above that.....take your paths tool and left click at the start of a row of rivets
(remember make sure your new layer is selected in the layer stack)

a small hollow circle will appear.....now left click at the other end of the same row of rivets a line will appear connecting the two circles....

TIP-   when you left click if you hold it down and drag two small squares called control points...will appear next to the circle you can grab a square and move the line with it...this is good for riveting around curves (also make sure your color is Black in the tool box)

lay out all the small rivet lines first  (its good just to practice on a new image just to get it down)

once you are satisfied with the lines (you can grab any of the circles and move them once they have been placed.)

right click go to "edit" down on the list will be "stroke path"  a window opens.....at the top make sure line width is 1 px

uncheck "antialiasing"

click the "+" at "line style"  at "dash preset" choose "normal dots" then click "stroke"

bang rivets  :D

now say you are doing the wing instead of redoing it again you can go to the layer stack at the top there are "layer dialog" "channel dialog" and "Path dialog" if they are not there go to windows up top of your edit window go to "dockable dialogs" and select the paths....

now that path dialog is chosen click the little eye so it can be seen...choose the "move tool" in the tool box under "move" you can select
"layer" "selection" or "path" choose "path"

now you can move the path to wherever you want.....if needed you can choose the "flip tool" and reverse the direction ether vertically or horizontally 

again each tool you must select the "paths" in the "move" section of the tool box.

remember to reselect the "layer" in the toolbox...for the tools you use...

(for larger rivets make the line width 2)

I have a layer for the different size rivets...

well that should do it hopefully its understandable and I didn't forget anything :salute
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Devil 505 on January 11, 2012, 05:19:37 PM
Cool, thanks.

another question, is there a way to have a filter overlay all layers? Or do I have to flatten the image first?
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: ink on January 11, 2012, 05:36:58 PM
Cool, thanks.

another question, is there a way to have a filter overlay all layers? Or do I have to flatten the image first?

hmmmm....if you apply a filter to a layer it will effect everything below it in the layer stack....although I am not 100%.... I don't use filters for skinning.

what are you trying to do?

Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Devil 505 on January 11, 2012, 06:32:44 PM
trying to use a noise layer to add some texture to the paint. It seems to only apply to the selected layer.
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: ink on January 11, 2012, 07:38:24 PM
the plasma clouds will have a better effect then noise....you could do both also and see what you get....

experimenting with it you can find all kinds of cool effects
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Devil 505 on January 11, 2012, 08:16:53 PM
Small update: added German crosses, modified rear fuselage cammo border, and added some more blurring to wing cammo demarkation.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Rallskin15.png)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Rallskin16.png)

Thanks for watching.
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Devil 505 on January 12, 2012, 09:20:25 PM
Another small update, I used INK's recomendation for a plasma cloud filter and WOW! The paint just comes alive. Thanks INK.  :rock
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Rallskin17.png)
You can also see that I added some shading to the crease of the alerions and elevators.
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: STEELE on January 12, 2012, 10:31:30 PM
WAY cool!!  I like how the wings/elevators look like the paint is vinyl graphics  cut out with pinking shears!   :)
  side note: KN guys have a secret way of flyin g2's with gondies    :uhoh
I'll never tell!~  :devil
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: ink on January 12, 2012, 11:18:33 PM
very sweet man :aok

now when your ready to get the paint chipping going let me know.

I think the panel lines need a bit more opacity

it is coming along awesome  :rock
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Devil 505 on January 12, 2012, 11:38:04 PM
Thanks guys.

Shemp, I know most of us KN guys use the gondies, but Mr. Rall didn't.
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Debrody on January 13, 2012, 08:57:13 AM
 :aok
Cant wait to fly it!
Could you put a download link together plz, or pm me?
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Raphael on January 13, 2012, 01:41:11 PM
LOOKING GREAT, DEVIL!! oh man I will use this. a lot.
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: STEELE on January 13, 2012, 02:50:28 PM
Thanks guys.

Shemp, I know most of us KN guys use the gondies, but Mr. Rall didn't.
   OTOH,   Galland loved gondies, even had wing cannons installed on/in his f model when it came out
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: STXAce8 on January 13, 2012, 03:36:27 PM
NICE devil! Now when can I fly this? (psssssssssssssssssst pm me the skin i wanna fly it when you are done with it offline)
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Devil 505 on January 19, 2012, 08:32:08 PM
Markings and stencils applied. I also added exhaust stains. I wasnt satisfied with the cammo mottling on the tail, so after MANY attempts to make something I liked, I went back to the all green paint. Finally, I gave color to the wingtip nav lights.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Rallskin19.png)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Rallskin18.png)
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Void on January 19, 2012, 08:51:36 PM
Markings and stencils applied. I also added exhaust stains. I wasnt satisfied with the cammo mottling on the tail, so after MANY attempts to make something I liked, I went back to the all green paint. Finally, I gave color to the wingtip nav lights.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Rallskin19.png)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Rallskin18.png)

Wow that plane is really attractive.
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Krusty on January 19, 2012, 10:29:31 PM
In my opinion your tail fin mottling was quite good, and I liked it better than the solid green/brown, definitely.

Sorry I haven't been faster on the response, to go back to the devil's advocate in viewing those photos, you can't tell from that one photo what color is on the nose because the colors have such little contrast. Even the darker 2-tone mottling is barely distinguishable from monotone spots. One of the hazards of WW2 photography, which was a technology still developing at the time.


I think you've done a fairly nice job. I think you still need to work on some of the details here and there, tweak them, etc. Some things Ink has touched upon already.

However, I'm stuck every time I see it thinking it's too brown. You say you got your shades from Simmer's Paintshop, and this is one of my major beefs with that page: The paint chips are terrible!

I've seen tons of photos, I've handled recreations of the pain colors myself working with scale models, I've seen a lot of more thoroughly researched websites showing better colors. I've tried using Simmer's chips and the end result is always terrible. Simply swapping out the colors for those on better references yields greater end results without doing anything but changing the color!

Here is an excellent reference link:
http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/colorcharts/colorcharts.asp
The Germany section can be found here:
http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/colorcharts/stuff_eng_colorcharts_germany.htm

Naturally these are just the base colors, and you can have a large variation on any one of these after you apply weathering and other layers and effects, etc, but they should be your starting point.

For the standard RLM74/RLM75over RLM76, it will be better to use the following:

(http://www.nakatomitower.com/models/colors/rlm7574over76.jpg)
Upper left: RLM74 Graugrun, upper right: RLM75 Grauviolett
Lower: RLM76 Lichtblau

I've uploaded a few of the common colors for LW aircraft here:
http://www.nakatomitower.com/models/colors/


The more I look at it, the more it looks too much like an end-of-war K-4 with brown paint rather than a G2 with overspray. It should be more of a 2-tone grey than a grey/green, and the over-spray most likely RLM02 or RLM74 (both chips included in the link above). If you wanted to go more brown-tint, RLM02 is the way to go (I find a slightly darker/weathered version of the paint chip works nice). Mind you this isn't anything against the work you've done so far, just the colors of that work. It's easy enough to tweak if you've got the layers separated (as you do). I've done the same and had the same suggestion made to me a number of times, so it's nothing personal. I just don't think the colors are right.

Otherwise the work so far has been good and it's something I'd fly in the MA, for sure.
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Devil 505 on January 20, 2012, 12:00:11 AM
Thanks Krusty for your input.  :salute

I do like your color chips and will give them a try. Regarding the "brownishness" of the paint, I totally agree. Remember I said that I substituted RLM 73 for 74 because I wanted more a greenish color? Well, it was also brownish. The strait color was fine, but for whatever reason the filter I placed over it really mutes the green. You can also see this on the spinner which is RLM 70 "Black-green", now just looks black. The actual colors are no differant from the very first pics that I posted. I want to see what differance your colors you suggested can give. I may even switch to RLM 72 for the rear cammo.

(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/SimmersPintchips.png)

I'm glad you liked the paint I had on the tail before. The problem I had was that I looked fake to me. It was too neat to be random splotches, but to random to be a neat pattern. You thought it looks like a K-4 now, the mottled tail really made it look like one.  I must have tried 6 differant schemes taken right off other G-2s, but none felt right. But the all green does, and it's no longer boring with the weathering applied. I'm sure that when I do the detail for the fabric rudder it will look even better.
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: lyric1 on January 20, 2012, 03:11:31 PM
 :aok
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Greebo on January 23, 2012, 05:55:23 AM
Great looking skin Devil. I'd suggest making the engine hatch lines a bit more solid than the other panel lines. Otherwise it just needs a few more stains, chips etc. but I suspect you already know that.
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Krusty on January 23, 2012, 11:07:21 PM
Don't go overboard on the fabric of the controls... In reality you can't even see a difference. It wasn't sagging or sucking in between the ribs, or anything. Just give enough detail that people will be expecting but not enough to make it look too heavy.

If you get what I mean?

EDIT: For example, here's a war time rudder, seeing plenty of use (note the kills):

(http://www.nakatomitower.com/71sqn/litjens2.jpg)

However, if you DO want to show the ribs, they will be most prominent on war-weary craft and at the widest part of the lower rudder (which I suppose makes sense as you have to stretch the material taught over the wider ribs that mount the light and trim tab mount, etc...)

Here's a more weathered one:

(http://www.nakatomitower.com/71sqn/g2bomber8wp.jpg)

Hope that helps!
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Devil 505 on January 23, 2012, 11:53:33 PM
Thanks for feedback everybody.

Krusty I love that bottom pic.

I adjusted the colors  using Krusty's suggestions. I agree that the IMPS colors are better that what I had before. I can now see some green in the spinner after replacing the RLM 70.

In standard RLM 74/75/76 colors.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Rallskin20.png)

I didn't like the RLM 74 because it doesn't contrast  the 75 enough, and I wanted a color with more green in it. So I swapped out RLM 74 with 71.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Rallskin21.png)

Much better.  :aok  

Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Krusty on January 24, 2012, 12:52:26 AM
The problem with that is you've taken a historical paint scheme and made an unhistorical one. Not the overspray on the tail, but the splinter camo seen on the wings. Can you go back to a version you saved with the proper color, the one where you say it doesn't have enough contrast? Try this:

Go to just that RLM 74 layer and boost the saturation a tad (like 5-10%). Then go to the RLM75 layer and DESATURATE it just a take (5-10%, play with the slider a bit).

Tweaking the color, brightness, contrast, and saturation of the existing layer will give you the "pop" to separate the colors from each other without totally replacing the color.

Then move the RLM71 layer back on but only on the tail area where it oversprays. What does that look like? I.E. tweak the 1, combine the second, to create a third using parts of both.

I think the goal is to strive for accuracy or authenticity, so that's why I harp on it. Might look interesting, too!
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Devil 505 on January 24, 2012, 02:50:12 PM
Are you suggesting having  RLM 71 only on the fuslage sides and verticle stab and  74 on the upper surfaces?  Or, are you telling me to use a the 71 layer to tint the 74?
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Devil 505 on February 01, 2012, 12:00:49 AM
Update.
Added rivits, oil streaks, and fabric surface detail. I figure its about 95% done, just need to do a few touch-ups then the specularity and bump maps.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Rallskin23.png)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Rallskin22.png)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Rallskin25.png)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Rallskin26.png)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Rallskin24.png)
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: ink on February 01, 2012, 01:57:51 AM
looks damn good :aok
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Latrobe on February 01, 2012, 09:24:51 AM
I know what my G-2 skin will be from now on!  :aok
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Devil 505 on February 01, 2012, 07:37:57 PM
Thanks guys.  :salute
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Raphael on February 01, 2012, 10:44:22 PM
amazing! lookin' great!
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: DEECONX on February 06, 2012, 08:02:37 PM
Again, great work good sir!  :aok
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Nr_RaVeN on February 08, 2012, 09:05:15 PM
From the first screen of this skin compared to the last screen I can see your a fast learner.. The weathering is nice..
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Devil 505 on October 28, 2013, 12:31:37 AM
Long overdue update.

This skin was rejected after a snafu resulted in it being confused with the skin for 9./Jg 54. The original skin files were then lost when my hard-drive crashed, earlier this year. After tackling all of the Emils, I figured it was time to revisit this skin - from scratch. You'll note that I decided to portray this scheme with a traditional mottled camouflage on the tail. Also I reverted to a true RLM 74 on the fuselage sides.

Without further ado, I present Gunther Rall's new and improved Bf 109G-2.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Jg52109G1_zpsaffc82e4.png~original) (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/DropkickYankees/media/Aces%20High/Jg52109G1_zpsaffc82e4.png.html)

(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Jg52109G2_zps611b09eb.png~original) (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/DropkickYankees/media/Aces%20High/Jg52109G2_zps611b09eb.png.html)

(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Jg52109G3_zpsfded2810.png~original) (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/DropkickYankees/media/Aces%20High/Jg52109G3_zpsfded2810.png.html)

Enjoy.
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: lyric1 on October 28, 2013, 04:19:15 AM
 :aok
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: gyrene81 on October 28, 2013, 09:48:03 AM
that is really nice looking Devil.  :aok
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: TwinBoom on October 28, 2013, 08:19:07 PM
 :aok
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Devil 505 on October 28, 2013, 08:28:43 PM
thanks guys.  :salute
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: scarecrw on October 29, 2013, 01:46:16 AM
Devil...this is stunning. Amazing skin. :aok
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Big Rat on October 29, 2013, 09:31:26 PM
Wow, looks good :aok

 :salute
BigRat
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Nefarious on October 29, 2013, 09:42:32 PM
Good work! <S>
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: 1Canukk on November 01, 2013, 08:56:12 AM
 Your skins are amazing . Keep them coming  , any 190d9  in the works .
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Devil 505 on November 01, 2013, 12:47:46 PM
Your skins are amazing . Keep them coming  , any 190d9  in the works .
Eventually I'll get to the Dora, I plan on doing Joseph Priller's "Black 14" of Jg 26.
And Thanks.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: LCADolby on November 01, 2013, 02:08:42 PM
I'd swap film making for skinning that well any day.

 :salute
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: ink on December 16, 2013, 11:59:38 PM
too damn pretty............




















































 :neener:

this looks great :rock
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Devil 505 on December 17, 2013, 06:48:47 AM
Thanks INK.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: scarecrw on April 08, 2014, 09:28:43 PM
Hey Dev, where is this bad boy? I want to fly it so bad! :joystick:
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Devil 505 on April 08, 2014, 09:33:49 PM
Next month. I haven't had time to submit all the skins I have done. Sorry.
Title: Re: Bf 109G-2 Gunther Rall 8./Jg52
Post by: Hajo on April 09, 2014, 04:34:24 PM
Excellent job!  Nicely done.