Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Cobra412 on May 26, 2004, 05:21:33 PM
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I'm curious because alot of things I've read state the Pony is only capable of 2000lbs of bombs or 8 x HVAR rockets on zero length launchers.
The B model according to my book can only carry 2000lbs of bombs or M10 triple-tube rockets on the wing racks.
Is this infact true? Also if it isn't is there any photos out there with a full loadout(bombs and rockets)?
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P-51B
Empty: 6,840 lb :: 3,102.57 kg
Loaded: 11,200 lb :: 5,080.23 kg
P-51D
Empty: 7,125lb :: 3,231.85 kg
Loaded: 11,600lb :: 5,261.67 kg
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I don't know if that true or not, but that all I found and F-51D (Korean War) could add more loaded.
Rafe
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Actually what I meant is in the current AH we have the ability to loadout with bombs and rockets at the same time. I haven't found anywhere that allows this as a loadout. It says one or the other not both.
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the P47 can load 10 rockets AND two bombs on the wings.
I don't think that's historical either.
Bozon
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Originally posted by bozon
the P47 can load 10 rockets AND two bombs on the wings.
I don't think that's historical either.
Bozon
That can be true that P-47 can carry two three-tube M10 wing rocket launchers, but i think that go for P-47N and P-47D carry four or eight HVAR on underwing launchers.
Rafe
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Originally posted by bozon
the P47 can load 10 rockets AND two bombs on the wings.
I don't think that's historical either.
Bozon
I recall reading that land-based corsairs could carry up to 4k of ord...now, I can't remember if it was Korea or WW2 and if it had RATO or not....
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
I recall reading that land-based corsairs could carry up to 4k of ord...now, I can't remember if it was Korea or WW2 and if it had RATO or not....
Vought F4U-4B/-C Corsair
four 20-mm cannons plus
eight 5 inch rockets under
wings or up to 4,000 lb on centerline and pylon racks
Naplam
Vought F4U-5/-5N/-5NL Corsair (http://www.vought.com/heritage/photo/assets/images/db_images/db_1115_12.jpg)
Four 20-mm cannons
Ten 5-inch rockets under wings or
up to 5000 lb on centerline and pylon racks.
Naplam
Vought F4U-6/AU-1 Corsair "Ground Supporter" (http://www.vought.com/heritage/photo/assets/images/db_images/db_4378_19.jpg)
Four 20-mm cannons
Ten 5-inch rockets under wings or
up to 3000 lb on centerline and pylon racks.
Naplam
That pretty much for a fighter can carry nearly 6000 Ib bomb.
Rafe
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Rafe,
I have a couple of references that show the F4U-1 taking off in excess of 17,000LBS in combat which puts the load to 5,000LBS. Not annecdotal stuff either but POH and manufacture reference.
Also the AU-1 had a 6k capacity.
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But he's asking about Ponies ya bunch of thread hijackers;) :D
I've got pics of B/C ponies with 500lbers and m10 system. Soon as I get to a flatbed scanner I'll postem :D
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Originally posted by bozon
the P47 can load 10 rockets AND two bombs on the wings.
I don't think that's historical either.
Bozon
It's historical......
(http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/p47-21.jpg)
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Widewing
It's historical......
(http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/p47-21.jpg)
My regards,
Widewing
Now that's a beautiful plane! :)
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Thank you Widewing :aok
that IS a beauty.
Bozon
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Originally posted by OntosMk1
But he's asking about Ponies ya bunch of thread hijackers;) :D
:(
Sowweee ....
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Lots of photos of Korean era F51Ds with both bombs and rockets, or napalm and rockets.
I can post a photo of an Iwo Jima based 78th FS P51D with two 160 gallon P38 wing tanks and a full load of rockets too.
I think you didn't see the full load out in WW2 because of the need to carry drop tanks, as well as I don't believe the zero length rocket rails were installed on any ETO based 51s but were limited to the tail end of the war in the Pacific. Obviously to get to Japan they needed the drop tanks so carrying both bombs and rockets would have prevented that. Clearly they could handle the weight of the loadout though if they were lugging P38 drop tanks and rockets.
Top image is of a 1950, Korean era 51D with the full load out. There are a bunch of images like this in the Schiffer Published book "Mustangs over Korea".
Bottom image is a 78th FS, 15th FG P51D on Iwo Jima in the summer of 45 with P38 wing tanks and rockets.
Dan/Slack
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1085762912_f51d.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1085763785_iwo-51.jpg)
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Widewing, it isn't accurate on the P-47D, as far as I know.
Hell, the P-47D-35 was the first to have the zero length rockets AFAIK. But just because the P-47N could carry 2,500 lbs of bombs and 10 rockets doesn't mean the P-47D could. The P-47N had a completely different wing.
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For what its worth, it appears from what I've found that the zero length rocket rails were installed in P51D20-NA aircraft from serial # 44-72226.
Checking some 8th AF Fighter Group histories, there are very few aircraft from after that serial number. The 359th FG for example had roughly 6 Mustangs post that serial. So it's possible that there were a few Mustangs in the ETO with zero length Rocket Rails.
Now going to the Pacific, the 15th FG, that served on Iwo Jima with the 21st and 506th Fighter Groups in 51s got their first 51s from that serial range which would explain their presence in the Pacific.
Dan/Slack
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Little known fact in AH is that the P-47D-30 is actually a D-40. I have no idea how the naming error came about, it must have just been a brainfart.
Anyway, even though the zero-length rails did not come factory equipped on the P-47 until the D-40, earlier models were refitted with the zero length rails and 2850 kits were produced to do that.
As Guppy pictures attest, the P-51 could carry rockets in conjunction with drop ordnance. There is also another possible combination not seen in AH, and that is for an extra 2 rocket rails in place of the bomb pylon to give a total of 10 rockets.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Widewing, it isn't accurate on the P-47D, as far as I know.
Hell, the P-47D-35 was the first to have the zero length rockets AFAIK. But just because the P-47N could carry 2,500 lbs of bombs and 10 rockets doesn't mean the P-47D could. The P-47N had a completely different wing.
Actual differences between the P-47D wing and P-47N wing were much fewer than one may believe. Span was increased by only 22 inches. Basically, inner sections were added containing fuel tanks (about 18 inches per side), and the landing gear track was widened accordingly. Wing tips were clipped and revised ailerons were installed. There was no increase in hardpoints and the wing's internal structure was essentially the same. P-47Ns were fitted with strengthened belly shackles allowing for a 1,000 pound bomb. Beyond that, ordnance capability was unchanged from late-model P-47Ds. Most P-47Ds in service not equiped with factory installed zero-length rocket rails (all D-40s and about 200 D-30s) were retro-fitted in the field. It was not unusual to see D-27s and D-28s with the rocket rails. Oh, and there were no D-35s.
My regards,
Widewing
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Thanks for the replies everyone. I know not to always believe what a book tells you hence why I asked this question. Sometimes seeing is believing. Once again thanks for your replies.
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Am I correct that some tiffies carried 16 underwing rockets (double row), and possibly P47's as well?