Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: AutoPilot on October 25, 2005, 12:04:44 PM
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There has been a lot of discussion on this topic.A lot.The shedders killing
the furballers fun,etc.,etc.
In AH 1 when a large group of people were attacking a base to capture it
the opposing country would try to stop them.A furball would then ensue over the base.All the while the base is being bombed by bombers
the town being killed by typhies and 110's there was still a furball going
on in the middle of all this.
So my question is why is there such a problem between the 2?
They both need each other to make the others time spent more fun.
without base takers there can be no furball IMHO.
P.S. this is not a troll just a thought.........
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well last night there was a couple nice furballs going on. it was good fun otd furballin untill toolshed heros came and ruINed it. The base was never takin... carry on....
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See Rule #7
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without base takers there can be no furball IMHO.
Before the concept of land grab was even born all people did was furball and it was good.
Furballers don't need base takers at all.
There is a big difference between defending a base and a furball.
In a furball people are there to fight you, in base defense people are there to drop their ord and run away.
So my question is why is there such a problem between the 2?
The problem lies in the nature of the two. If you are a furballer you want things to happen that create more fighting. If you are a toolshedder you are doing everything you can to stop the fighting so you can easily walk in and drop troops.
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In my opinion the decline of "combat" is due to map design.
The 512 maps make it extremely easy to completely avoid ever having to fight another human.
Each front should have operational bases in an area only 2 sectors wide and no more than 3 sectors deep. Non-operational bases are not capturable/destroyable. As land is captured the "front" moves.
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
The shedders killing
the furballers fun,etc.,etc.
And that is your answer. We cannot kill their fun. Some of them will do anything to kill ours.
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It was rather amazing last night when I hopped on later in the evening. Phan and I were looking for a fight and there was not one place on the map where the dar bars were even close to even.
It was AH2 at it's worst as it was all about taking fields and all about avoiding a fight.
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Originally posted by Furious
In my opinion the decline of "combat" is due to map design.
The 512 maps make it extremely easy to completely avoid ever having to fight another human.
Each front should have operational bases in an area only 2 sectors wide and no more than 3 sectors deep. Non-operational bases are not capturable/destroyable. As land is captured the "front" moves.
Interesting idea!
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Originally posted by Furious
In my opinion the decline of "combat" is due to map design.
Yep, was a new map on 2 weeks ago,with a furball place in the middle unfortunatly i did't have time to play only 1 day on it , The best fun/fights ever, 3 base 5k in the middle, Did they take it out from rotation?
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I think alot has to do with the type of player you are. Fighter guys cant imagine spending time flying slow carrying bombs to a target over and over as fun, and many bomber guys dont see the fun in furballing either because they arent very good in fighters or its boring to them.
That brings me to Dreds point, the reason the bombers can spoil the fighter guys fun, and the fighters cant seem to spoil the bomber guys fun is simple. The fighter guys arent interested in flying to a few bases and taking out ord at them over and over. They lack the interest in the very thing that causes them pains.
If once an hour, a few of them each targeted a few bases and knocked out the ord, their problems would be solved.
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I believe that "furballers" get slightly irked by "toolshedders" because, on a map with well over 100 bases, it is deemed absolutely vital, by the "toolshedders", that all bases on furball/fighter island be under the control of one country.
I have drawn the conclusion that the type of "toolshedders" I have described in the above paragraph are the slow people who inhabit this earth. The rest of us just have to deal with them.
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Originally posted by mars01
Before the concept of land grab was even born all people did was furball and it was good.
Furballers don't need base takers at all.
There is a big difference between defending a base and a furball.
In a furball people are there to fight you, in base defense people are there to drop their ord and run away.
The problem lies in the nature of the two. If you are a furballer you want things to happen that create more fighting. If you are a toolshedder you are doing everything you can to stop the fighting so you can easily walk in and drop troops.
Yeah but that is right out of the manual of base capture 101 wasn't it?
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1:furious :huh
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Originally posted by FiLtH
I think alot has to do with the type of player you are. Fighter guys cant imagine spending time flying slow carrying bombs to a target over and over as fun, and many bomber guys dont see the fun in furballing either because they arent very good in fighters or its boring to them.
That brings me to Dreds point, the reason the bombers can spoil the fighter guys fun, and the fighters cant seem to spoil the bomber guys fun is simple. The fighter guys arent interested in flying to a few bases and taking out ord at them over and over. They lack the interest in the very thing that causes them pains.
If once an hour, a few of them each targeted a few bases and knocked out the ord, their problems would be solved.
DING DING DING... FiLtH wins the prize! He is THOR with the HAMMER! You can't bomb something without the ord and you can't capture anything without the drunks. Now the problem is to organize, seems impossible in here and probably will be for generations. hehehe
The only thing that is missing from the experience in here is true organization and will not be possble as in here we don't have a "Commanding General" or wing commanders or Squadron leaders etc... Lots of folks like to play the leaders and not many wanna play followers. I guess the bottom line is that we all need to work as a collective as much as possible and be glad that we have what we have as there is nothing out ther that can compare to the experience that we all share in the game.
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1:cool:
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Originally posted by Vudak
I believe that "furballers" get slightly irked by "toolshedders" because, on a map with well over 100 bases, it is deemed absolutely vital, by the "toolshedders", that all bases on furball/fighter island be under the control of one country.
I have drawn the conclusion that the type of "toolshedders" I have described in the above paragraph are the slow people who inhabit this earth. The rest of us just have to deal with them.
The thing I just dont understand is this.
Furballers have their furball island right? That's where they hang out, fight, die and fight some more. They really dont care about upping form some base far out in the middle of no mans land.
While they are fighting at furball island there are many, many bases that are left undefended and can be taken quite easily. Yet, the base takers will horde over the furball islands on each of the maps to put them out of commision. Do they think that if the fuballers do not have a place to furball it will dedicate those furballers to helping them take bases? Wouldnt it be easier to just leave those bases alone until the very end? I know it would be alot easier for the base takers to grab all the undefended bases they could while the furballers are still at furball island. But why do they still take furball island? Doesnt make any sense to me.
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Originally posted by doc1kelley
The only thing that is missing from the experience in here is true organization and will not be possble as in here we don't have a "Commanding General" or wing commanders or Squadron leaders etc... Lots of folks like to play the leaders and not many wanna play followers. I guess the bottom line is that we all need to work as a collective as much as possible and be glad that we have what we have as there is nothing out ther that can compare to the experience that we all share in the game.
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1:cool:
Once ToD comes out you will have just that. The greatest aspect of this game, the MA most of all is that we have choices. Choices to join a mission or not. Choices to take a tank, a fighter or a bomber. Choices to follow a leader or now follow a leader. To work as a team, be it with a single wingman in fighters or with ten or twenty heavy attack a/c or bombers and work to take a base or what have you. Or we can choose to work alone and lone wolf. All of that sets aces high, and the MA in particular apart from any flight/fight sim out there today. ToD is just another corner of the market, a corner for players like yourself. Who do enjoy a strict set of rules, who have high priorities when it comes to organization and planning. There will always be players/potential players who enjoy that aspect of a game. And there will always be players/potential players who enjoy the more loose, free to do as the please aspect of a game.
You're just going to have to rely on your squad and those around you who do enjoy the game the way you enjoy it until ToD comes out. Because lets face it, people are always going to play how they want to play, if they cant, they most likely wont play at all.
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Originally posted by doc1kelley
DING DING DING... FiLtH wins the prize! He is THOR with the HAMMER! You can't bomb something without the ord and you can't capture anything without the drunks. Now the problem is to organize, seems impossible in here and probably will be for generations. hehehe
The only thing that is missing from the experience in here is true organization and will not be possble as in here we don't have a "Commanding General" or wing commanders or Squadron leaders etc... Lots of folks like to play the leaders and not many wanna play followers. I guess the bottom line is that we all need to work as a collective as much as possible and be glad that we have what we have as there is nothing out ther that can compare to the experience that we all share in the game.
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1:cool:
Ahh, but herein lies the lesson, awdoc. Toolshedders are either more amenable to organization by nature, or the very nature of toolshed attacking adds a framework that organizes their activities and concentrates their efforts. Or, their cowlike herd mentality makes them bunch up in the face of the mighty wolves of the air.
Furballers, on the other hand, are difficult to get organized. It's like herding cats. All that "meee, meee, miiiiine" getoutamyway Iamwonderful ego stuff, I think. Or, it could be said that their individual skills--and the nature of air combat--are not amenable to easy organization. Maintaining situational awareness in the presence of multiple threats is difficult. Add the need to work to acheive a collective goal, and pilot overload occurs.
Take your pick.
We had a thread--and a challenge--a year or so ago. I challenged the furball crowd to stop me from taking their bases, and TOLD THEM WHICH BASES WERE GOING TO BE TAKEN. They could not get organized enough to stop the "land grab". They lost the challenge, and (most of them) were pretty pizzed off about it. But the outcome was inevitable. We could repeat the experiment again, and would probably get the same results.
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Originally posted by doc1kelley
DING DING DING... FiLtH wins the prize! He is THOR with the HAMMER! You can't bomb something without the ord and you can't capture anything without the drunks. Now the problem is to organize, seems impossible in here and probably will be for generations. hehehe
The only thing that is missing from the experience in here is true organization and will not be possble as in here we don't have a "Commanding General" or wing commanders or Squadron leaders etc... Lots of folks like to play the leaders and not many wanna play followers. I guess the bottom line is that we all need to work as a collective as much as possible and be glad that we have what we have as there is nothing out ther that can compare to the experience that we all share in the game.
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1:cool:
So let me spell it out in language you can understand.
I get home from work at 6:00PM
I sit down for dinner at 6:30PM
I spend some time with the wife so that she will not complain about that stupid game. 8:00PM
If any other RL thing comes up I spend time on that. 9:00pm
Now I log on to AH and have at best 2-3 hours to fly. Why should I be forced to spend that time flying long distances to bomb troops and ord at back enemy bases (something I'm not very good at because IT'S BORING) because some dweebish toolsheadder cannot resist the temptation to drop the hangers at the only decent fight in the arena.
So let me recap for you.
We do not want to pork troops and ord
We do not want to fly for 45 minutes to help you capture an undefended airfield.
We will not nor ever will be your resource.
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Originally posted by rshubert
All that "meee, meee, miiiiine" getoutamyway Iamwonderful
Just curious if you think this doesn't apply to people on a map with over 100 bases going out of their way to take furball/fighter island?
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Originally posted by rshubert
Or, their cowlike herd mentality makes them bunch up in the face of the mighty wolves of the air.
You said it.
:D
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See Rule #4
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Originally posted by rshubert
Ahh, but herein lies the lesson, awdoc. Toolshedders are either more amenable to organization by nature, or the very nature of toolshed attacking adds a framework that organizes their activities and concentrates their efforts. Or, their cowlike herd mentality makes them bunch up in the face of the mighty wolves of the air.
LOL :rofl Cows thats us but I like to think of us as ummm maybe Elephants..... Yes elephants, large lumbering planes with pilots that have long nvrmnd, herding togeather and making the ground shake (as well as fighter pilots) upon our aproch!!! MWA HA HA HA......
And dropping large piles of wellll ...... I think i'll leve that part out. :)
Note this post is to make people laugh and add levity to the thread and is not intended as an attack or to have any negative imput what so ever.
So please just take a deep breath and enjoy my small attemp to inject some humor into this thread. Thank You
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Originally posted by rshubert
We had a thread--and a challenge--a year or so ago. I challenged the furball crowd to stop me from taking their bases, and TOLD THEM WHICH BASES WERE GOING TO BE TAKEN. They could not get organized enough to stop the "land grab". They lost the challenge, and (most of them) were pretty pizzed off about it. But the outcome was inevitable. We could repeat the experiment again, and would probably get the same results.
i guess you forgot me takin' you up on that offer the following week, and you and your horde not capturing a single field that night.
let me know if you are wanting to repeat the experiment. LAST time I only had 1/2 your #'s. This time I am pretty sure I could come closer to even numbers.
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Originally posted by God, speaking of Toolshedders
Some days darts get under my skin. especialy when some people are "Stuck on stupid." or my version "Clueless dolts."
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what about us Porkballertankinsheders who actualy like doin a bit of everything? :eek:
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See Rule #4
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Note this post is to make people laugh and add levity to the thread and is not intended as an attack or to have any negative imput what so ever.
LOL I like the disclaimer, more and more necessary these days with the rash of thin skin going around LOLH:rofl
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Ok... let's get some things straight.... some of you are under the mistaken idea that there is some form of simbiotic relationship between the mouse wielders and the noble furballers...
There is not... not needed anyways... the noble furballers do not need the base capture mouse wielding "win the war" types... for they most part they are just a way to get hit percentage up... of no real use to a true furballer anyway...
There may be some instances where the attempted base capture benifiets the noble furballer but that is incedental... not really something to strive for..
no.. the relationship is more like that of a leech and it's host... the pathetic mouse wielders need the noble furballers but the oppossite is not at all true... in fact.. the pathetic mouse weilders are allways harmfull to their host furballers.
If the fields are close together the noble furballers make their own fun with no consideration for the anything but the fight. Any "participation" by the pathetic mouse wielders is just leech activity.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Aces High is a simulation/game of the second world war air war, or parts of it.
it is also a tactical and very 3 sided constant battle for world domination.
it is also a place for dogfighting enthusiasts go to fight other purley for the fight alone.
Cant we all just accept that and play. i think you are all taking this game way to seriously.....
for me it is what ever i choose it to be. dueling sessions, furballing, fighter sweeps with my great friends of our squad, hunting prey, being hunted, winning, losing, crashin, burnin, landing kills, talking rubbish with friends.
is there really a need to set everything in stone like this.
"welcome to aces high your subscription is autherized. please choose the appropriate style of play:
[] Furballer
[] Toolshedder
thank you and enjoy your game"
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Who care aobut furballers vs. toolshedders? Its tired already.
As long as everyone is fighting in the same area and the land trades hands fast enough to avoid stagnation, all would be good.
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Ya know, I wouldn't have so much of a problem with base grabbers, if they stuck to the base grabbin only. You don't need to take out the FHz at the base to take it. You wanna bomb? Great, bomb the town and VH. You bomb the FHz you take the ball out of the fighters court. And even though we are at an enemy base, we have to go defensive because the enemy comes from a base farther away which makes them higher/faster than the planes that you just stopped from upping. Soon people will realize, it's killing the fighter hangars that's becoming the demise of base capturing.
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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Originally posted by Furious
Who care aobut furballers vs. toolshedders? Its tired already.
As long as everyone is fighting in the same area and the land trades hands fast enough to avoid stagnation, all would be good.
Amen and agreed!
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Originally posted by Cooley
what about us Porkballertankinsheders who actualy like doin a bit of everything? :eek:
Or as i like to call them 80% of the comunity.
Bronk
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Originally posted by megadud
See Rule #4
your reading comprehension is not so good.
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See Rule #4
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Isn't there an area in the DA for furballs?
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See Rule #5
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Originally posted by mars01
Furballers are easy to organise. All you need is a furball.
Requesting permission to use this in sig. :lol
Dave
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Originally posted by mechanic
.........Cant we all just accept that and play. i think you are all taking this game way to seriously.....
:D
You rock dude!
Dave
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #7
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See Rule #2
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Really it's not toolshedders vs furballers. In all games u have a group, for some odd reason, who's purpose in gaming is 2 ruin the fun for others. In ah2 it's those that bomb fhs at furball island or bombers/jabo's that bomb TT.
Also we seem 2 categorize toolshedders and furballers from the posts u read by 5-10 players. They do not represent furballers or toolshedders community. They might be one but do not represent everyone under furballers or toolshedders. So all this hoop la about toolshedders vs furballers not getting along is really just 10-15 players that seem 2 be at odds on the bbs.
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See Rule #4
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Before the concept of land grab was even born all people did was furball and it was good
when i started playing in 2000 thats all we did was take bases.you got a decent fight when they tryed stopping you.
think alot has to do with the type of player you are. Fighter guys cant imagine spending time flying slow carrying bombs to a target over and over as fun, and many bomber guys dont see the fun in furballing either because they arent very good in fighters or its boring to them.
The whole point of bombing is that maybe just maybe someone will try too come up there and shoot at those " Bombers".
In AH-1 the furballs were always above 5-K and lasted quite some time.The whole point of taking up a fighter is to kill something that is flying near you.That doesn't mean you have too fight other fighters only.A lot of pilots like takin a La-7 to a base to pork troops and wait for some fool to up and try to kill him.Vulching when there is no base capture going on is
weak and a cheap way to pad one's score and like a "fire and forget "
weapon takes no skill.
So instead of setting up area's for the furballers to furball,why doesn't
everyone just meet at the front line and fight like we did in AH-1?
who cares if some guy ups bombers,go shoot him down.
There is a " i must kill more than 2 people so i can get my name up in lights"
mentallity going on in the game.But judging from the complaints on this BB
you would never be able to tell.
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Originally posted by Stang
It's simple, really. I could care less if it's toolshedders, furballers, dweebs, chodes or whatever, I just want to see action going on. No, not that home movie, Morph. This is a multiplayer online game, one which we all pay $15 a month to particpate in. It absolutely perplexes me why the majority of people pay this to play a game where the point is to compete against other human beings, then turn around and do everything humaly possible to avoid any kind of engagement with them. You can toolshed and still fight other people. In fact, wouldn't the most satisfying base capture be the ones where you slaughter the enemy then take his land, instead of throwing 20 planes at an undefended field? Then you could really say, haha, you guys suck, we just kicked your ass. But unfortunately this rarely happens.
Like i said, it makes no sense. Please, just fight each other. If the MA had half the fireworks the BBs has it would be rediculously fun, and better.
yup, it does.
our squad throws up big buff missions and we fly 15k with large escorts groups higher. we play real war and hit the bases that supply the other teams land grabbers.
you see a green base under heavy assault?
what we do is make a mission to send some good fighters to take the vulchers out and at the same time send a flight of B24s with ponys to escort them to hit the root of the problem. we dont hit strat or hangers, we hit the town and VH.
after we kick asss and have control of the base the only way you're getting it back is by beating the vulch (which we turned the tide to create) or upping from another field.
this way helps all the furballers in our squad by finding them the highest concentration of enemy to kill, and to kill them for a reason. to help our land team do their job better.
furballers and toolsheds go hand in hand, and i am not afraid to drop the odd VH or two and deack a field in return for the start guys always providing me with a constant supply of enemy fighters to defend them against.
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Originally posted by Waffle BAS
I guess I can that point of view, though it could read like this:
In fact, wouldn't the most satisfying fights be the ones where you slaughter the enemy in an fight , instead of throwing 20 planes on one con? Then you could really say, haha, you guys suck, we just kicked your ass. But unfortunately this rarely happens.
Yeah, what I was thinking... just left that out.
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I didn't think the map sizes were the problem at first, but I have say now that I think it's certainly a major factor. I'm thinking we could have smaller maps with far fewer bases and not have a negative affect on gameplay.
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Originally posted by Vudak
Just curious if you think this doesn't apply to people on a map with over 100 bases going out of their way to take furball/fighter island?
Couldn't say, Vudak. I don't participate in taking furball island or tanktown, and have had "discussions" with some of my friends over the issue. We lost a couple of squaddies over one of those discussions, much to my sorrow.
In that particular case, it was a reaction to people from other countries taking tanktown out, by the way. There was an element of "getbackism" to the attack.
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Furbaling is fun but some organized fights in MA makes memories, is cool to drop the frame rate at take off 40-50 planes in the same time, and do something
I'll never forget Rocstar's missions,BOPS missions, Waffle's missions 30+Nikis just for fight, no C47s in mission, or we had a 20+ me163s in a mission, last month intercepting HQ raid
or Fariz set up a mission 2 -3 years ago, 40+C.202s, everyone came back with tons of assists,lol
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i guess i am just spoiled because when i first started playing in december 04 the first month was nothing but otd furballs. they slowly went away and hardly ever happen now.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
See Rule #4
Morphie, i gave you three possible reasons, and advocated none. You, of course, chose to berate me for the one you like the least. And the word is "reek", little boy. Use good language. Especially, don't call people "stupid" and make a mistake like that in the same sentence. It reeks of irony. Show a little civility. Haven't you been able to learn ANYTHING from the last few weeks' posts? Flamers and insulters are not well thought of.
By the way, pal--there are perfectly legit reasons for leaving the vh up. If the goon is close by, and no vehicles are out, THERE AIN'T NO FLAK THAT CAN OUTRUN A GOON TO TOWN. Flaks are--at that moment--out of the picture.
But if your cap is weak (you know, not an overwhelming "horde"), and they keep upping planes, the fighter hangars are much more dangerous, since their survival means that fighters can keep upping and upping and upping...The CAP planes need to pay attention to threats from other, nearby enemy fields, too--that takes resources away from the vulch game.
And finally, morphie, don't presume to tell me how to run a base capture. You couldn't organize a drink of water. And you profess to never participate in that activity. Where did you get your expertise, then?
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Originally posted by Stang
If the MA had half the fireworks the BBs has it would be rediculously fun, and better.
No kidding!
But the MA has become a horde mentality, gang-bang or be gang-banged. Capping a field that is being vulched can be almost as frustrating as being gang-banged.
I remember in AH1 where we had massive furball going on between bases all the time.
Now we have conga lines going from one base to the next. And we can have say the Rooks hitting a Knight base and vulching it while we Knights in the base next to it are vulching the base next to the airfield the Rooks are upping from (could be Bish too, no offense meant to any side).
It is like Horde ignore horde.
We still get some nice furballs going, then we hit the tool sheds and stop the furball.
The MA is chaos.
I must become "One with the Chaos"
AKFokerFoder+ sits cross legged, and chants his manta "Vulch"..."Vulch"..."Vulch"
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Maybe when TOD is released and all these " Barn Busters " & Fighter Hanger killers "& their mission planners, take their war to TOD and have the time of their ( Fun ) lives playing it, ....then some of this on going crap will pass..... What I can not understand, is why HTC's crew dosen't just setup a Fighter Town , ( or atleast try it ) it worked great in AirWarrior & it was a complete blast of continual fun.....
( On the other side of it, the HTC Crew is the very best at what they do, and I'm sure they have looked at all the pro's and Con's of a Fighter Town ...... )
Maybe with TOD up and running, the MA can even have some of the old maps, restore the old fuel burn and I will beable to find a dog fight without having to spend all night ....... to find a gut wrenching, on the deck, in the trees, screaming fight wid the latest, fastes fighters the game has ......Hell I might even beable to Fly the LA7 again ( like in AH 1 ) to a furball, fight till I shoot out all my amo, and have enough fuel to fly back and land ( providing I don't hit the deck or tree or get killed fightin' )
Barrowed some lines here , but for me it fits......
Why should I be forced to spend that time flying long distances to bomb troops and ord at back enemy bases (something I'm not very good at because IT'S BORING) because some killjoy toolsheadder cannot resist the temptation to drop the hangers at the only decent furball fight in the arena.
I do not want to pork troops and ord either.
I will not fly for 45 minutes to help you capture an undefended airfield,
and I also will not, nor ever will I be your resource....
This is my self-centered .02 cent slant on how I find my gameplay, as it is in the MA now.
I really miss the game play of Aceshigh 1 ......
CHECKERS
Oh ya , one other thing I would love to see added to AH2 is the LA 9 !!!
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You are all exactly right.
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Now before I say what Im gonna say, let it be known I enjoy both fighters and bombers. Too much of one and I get bored. Now..If HTC provided an arena that had no bombers, or capture, only ack to protect against vulchers (hvy), and just 3 bases, set up much like the donut,no cost on planes, and was called FighterTown Arena, Im willing to bet, most of the people would STILL NOT go there.
In my opinion, most people, most, not all, want to simply rack up kills, a large percentage by strictly vulching, and want everyone to see
SYSTEM: FiLtH lands 9 victories in a B24
Its nothing to be ashamed of, I like to rack up a bunch too. Im just curious who honestly, if given a fightertown utopia, would use that as their primary arena. Less than 30% Im thinking.The MA is what it is.
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LOL this is you justifying incompetence.
By the way, pal--there are perfectly legit reasons for leaving the vh up. If the goon is close by, and no vehicles are out, THERE AIN'T NO FLAK THAT CAN OUTRUN A GOON TO TOWN. Flaks are--at that moment--out of the picture.
A fighter is far more easy to kill and keep down than is a flack. I've seen 10 guys straffing a flack that made its way to the town while the goon was 10 minutes out. The flack got to the town and killed every troop with its pintle gun. Now wouldnt it have been a hell of alot easier to kill the VH and just vulch any planes trying to up?
But if your cap is weak (you know, not an overwhelming "horde"), and they keep upping planes, the fighter hangars are much more dangerous, since their survival means that fighters can keep upping and upping and upping...The CAP planes need to pay attention to threats from other, nearby enemy fields, too--that takes resources away from the vulch game.
Wrong again. The chances that someone is going to keep rolling after they've been vulched 2, 3 or 4 times are small to none.
And finally, morphie, don't presume to tell me how to run a base capture. You couldn't organize a drink of water. And you profess to never participate in that activity. Where did you get your expertise, then?
Wrong, I used to run missions that had 30-40 sometimes many more, players in them 3-4 years ago when I was still flying with the Mafia when it was still run by tzr and MDJOE. And yes we took the bases we were after. We'd also run fighter sweses, jabo runs to pork bases or what have you. They were all organized back then and successful 99.9% of the time.
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If they came out with a FT, we wouldn't want EVERYONE to go. 30% is a lot of people concidering the MAs population and the fact that there would only be 3 fields. I for one for definitely make the move.
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YAWN...Dead Horse subject
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Trolls Trolls
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If they came out with a FT, we wouldn't want EVERYONE to go. 30% is a lot of people concidering the MAs population and the fact that there would only be 3 fields. I for one for definitely make the move
The problem with that is 3 countries,we need only 2 countries.
I'll never forget Rocstar's missions
He always ran the best missions Hands down,and when we arrived to take the base a huge Furball always started up.What ever happened to
ROCKSTAR?
This has actually been a civilized conversation about this subject.I noticed Morpheus has been very respectful for a change,and yet someone who disagree's with his opinon has to start the name calling.
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Originally posted by FiLtH
Now before I say what Im gonna say, let it be known I enjoy both fighters and bombers. Too much of one and I get bored. Now..If HTC provided an arena that had no bombers, or capture, only ack to protect against vulchers (hvy), and just 3 bases, set up much like the donut,no cost on planes, and was called FighterTown Arena, Im willing to bet, most of the people would STILL NOT go there.
In my opinion, most people, most, not all, want to simply rack up kills, a large percentage by strictly vulching, and want everyone to see
SYSTEM: FiLtH lands 9 victories in a B24
Its nothing to be ashamed of, I like to rack up a bunch too. Im just curious who honestly, if given a fightertown utopia, would use that as their primary arena. Less than 30% Im thinking.The MA is what it is.
FiltH , would be just as interesting to see who would be piss'n and moaning' about Fighter Town too, especally if fighter town could not be killed, and had no bareing on the outcome of the war for the MA Map .....
One thing for sure , this on going debate would be over ....
CHECKERS
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Apples and Oarnges.
Only the grapes seem to get along.
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Originally posted by FiLtH
If once an hour, a few of them each targeted a few bases and knocked out the ord, their problems would be solved.
But, wouldn't that turn the furballers into toolsheders?!??!?
DON'T FALL FOR IT, IT'S A TRICK!!!
Back away slowly, and return to the furball. Nothing to see here.
Ouch out
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Originally posted by Cooley
what about us Porkballertankinsheders who actualy like doin a bit of everything? :eek:
We just have to keep doing what we're doing. Have the most fun you can for $15 a month.:aok
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no, but there is a place for destroying toolsheds for no appearent reason, you should check it out
Perhaps you should check out A41, 42 and 43. Looks like a big donut, 3 5K bases around it...........
maybe I will switch to bombers now:cry
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Originally posted by Ouch
But, wouldn't that turn the furballers into toolsheders?!??!?
DON'T FALL FOR IT, IT'S A TRICK!!!
Yes Luke, and toolshedding IS the dark side of the Force.
There is only madness and darkness for those who follow that path.
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Originally posted by Monster0
Really it's not toolshedders vs furballers. In all games u have a group, for some odd reason, who's purpose in gaming is 2 ruin the fun for others. In ah2 it's those that bomb fhs at furball island or bombers/jabo's that bomb TT.
Also we seem 2 categorize toolshedders and furballers from the posts u read by 5-10 players. They do not represent furballers or toolshedders community. They might be one but do not represent everyone under furballers or toolshedders. So all this hoop la about toolshedders vs furballers not getting along is really just 10-15 players that seem 2 be at odds on the bbs.
Don't go making sense here, noob! Now move along.... :rolleyes:
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A fighter is far more easy to kill and keep down than is a flack. I've seen 10 guys straffing a flack that made its way to the town while the goon was 10 minutes out. The flack got to the town and killed every troop with its pintle gun. Now wouldnt it have been a hell of alot easier to kill the VH and just vulch any planes trying to up?
I've seen far more Goons go down to aircraft getting up than from a Osti getting from base to town. If a couple of those 10 guys had been carrying bombs.........but it was probably beneath them, ergo flack one troops zero.
Wrong again. The chances that someone is going to keep rolling after they've been vulched 2, 3 or 4 times are small to none.
I see guys doing this all the time unless the cap is totally overwhelming and sometimes even then. These guys are Fighter Pilots and engage while low and slow and I have seen them bust more than a few caps. But you have to be at the base under attack to see them.
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Wrong, I used to run missions that had 30-40 sometimes many more, players in them 3-4 years ago when I was still flying with the Mafia when it was still run by tzr and MDJOE. And yes we took the bases we were after. We'd also run fighter sweses, jabo runs to pork bases or what have you. They were all organized back then and successful 99.9% of the time.
3-4 Years ago? I would of thought from what I have read that AH didn't have GVs back then and only like 50 people that knew everybody else.
Oh, and your still flying with the Mafia but a different one. I think it was Storch that said it. Blue Velvet Mafia. :D
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Anyone ever notice how, now that the player base has increased drastically and the horde mentality of the land-grab has gotten worse, missions have nearly gone extinct? I dunno if this explains anything RE the toolshedder vs furballer debate... it's probably only a far off tangent, but it's something that I've come to notice as a very negative turn in the evolution of AHII.
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Originally posted by rshubert
THERE AIN'T NO FLAK THAT CAN OUTRUN A GOON TO TOWN. Flaks are--at that moment--out of the picture.
There is no flak that can outrun a goon. Flaks are, at the moment, out of the picture.
Use good language.
Scrap, FWIW, I still see missions, but very rarely anything on the scale the Dogz of War/USMC/Bops/DFA used to run in AH. In my experience, it's 3 or 4 NOE bombers with a single fighter escort, 6-10 P-51s loaded to the gills at 20K, or a dozen 110s/38s under 5k. Rooks ran one the other night with God-only-knows-how-many fighters, but that was the first mission on that scale that I've seen since I've been back.
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I feel this debate is also my fault. Plz allow me to apologize once again.
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Checkers the only bad thing I would see from having a dedicated FT would be the MA would be like a bunch of UPS trucks running around delivering cargo to different bases, largely unopposed. But...what would be cool...you would have a meeting place for the fighter guys...to plan..scheme...mass fighter sweeps..invading the MA like a plague (cue Metallica's "Creeping Death") from time to time, keeping the buffers honest :)
I dont know why everyone just doesnt sit down for a minute and decide who likes to do what. Split up the MA...shake it up, find out who only likes to intercept, who only likes to bomb, who likes to escort. Decide what country does what, and put them all in one side,Bish Bombers,Knights Escort,Rook Intercept team. To heck with the captures.
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Originally posted by BlueJ1
Apples and Oranges.
Only the grapes seem to get along.
now there's a glimmer of genius amoungst the pitch black conception here..
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Good grief, play the game.
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Originally posted by ThunderEGG
Good grief, play the game.
No, you want to argue about it!!!:furious :mad:
:p :D
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yes, my reply looks like an arguement, yup. oooookay....
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That's it, you insult my mom's uncle's 2nd cousin's soon to be husband. Now we fight@!@#
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Originally posted by SuperDud
That's it, you insult my mom's uncle's 2nd cousin's soon to be husband. Now we fight@!@#
Just say "hub". You're confusing everyone.
All toolshedders must die, preferably in front of me. The heavy, slow planes don't give me as much trouble in a fight.
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typical is like last night... maybe one fight on the map.. the cv... fight lasts for about 10 minutes till some mouse wielder notices that there is action on the map.... end of cv.. end of any action on the map till..
10 min later an enemy cv makes for a good fight 8 sectors away... 5 or 10 min of good fight... mouse weilder makes bomb run on cv... end of fight..
shubie and co make "raid" on field that is 1.5 sectors from theirs... something furballers would never do but.... it creates a fight... a horde of fighters come in. great fight but they get slaughtered... far fields make for an impossible furball situation... next they come in, in high fighters 51's and mossies... obviously they don't have joysticks tho so they either crash into the ground or are slaughtered... they take out an outhouse or two... next... bomber raid... fh or two go down... lots of suicide fighters make it through to take out a building or two... last... big push... shubie even tries a fighter.. the strat girls die like flies but there is a lot of em... they take the base..
furballers continue to kill as many of em as possible till overwhelmed... sometimes killing the same mouse weilder 2 or three times as he wobbles in the air unaware of anything but the stall horn and the red plane he is shooting at from 1.5k.
Now... that is the "strat inspired furball" it sucks because... the strat guys are just plain lousy at fighting... they are ok fun to kill but nothing like a real fight with other furballers who own and know how to use a joystick..
but a cv or a close field? the furballers have a great time... great fights... the only thing is... the mouse wielders ALLWAYS come over to "help" their country by stopping the fight.
If all the fields were closer together.... you would see nothing but furballs.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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.....
ROTFLMFAO.:lol
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Originally posted by lazs2
typical is like last night... maybe one fight on the map.. the cv... fight lasts for about 10 minutes till some mouse wielder notices that there is action on the map.... end of cv.. end of any action on the map till..
10 min later an enemy cv makes for a good fight 8 sectors away... 5 or 10 min of good fight... mouse weilder makes bomb run on cv... end of fight..
shubie and co make "raid" on field that is 1.5 sectors from theirs... something furballers would never do but.... it creates a fight... a horde of fighters come in. great fight but they get slaughtered... far fields make for an impossible furball situation... next they come in, in high fighters 51's and mossies... obviously they don't have joysticks tho so they either crash into the ground or are slaughtered... they take out an outhouse or two... next... bomber raid... fh or two go down... lots of suicide fighters make it through to take out a building or two... last... big push... shubie even tries a fighter.. the strat girls die like flies but there is a lot of em... they take the base..
furballers continue to kill as many of em as possible till overwhelmed... sometimes killing the same mouse weilder 2 or three times as he wobbles in the air unaware of anything but the stall horn and the red plane he is shooting at from 1.5k.
Now... that is the "strat inspired furball" it sucks because... the strat guys are just plain lousy at fighting... they are ok fun to kill but nothing like a real fight with other furballers who own and know how to use a joystick..
but a cv or a close field? the furballers have a great time... great fights... the only thing is... the mouse wielders ALLWAYS come over to "help" their country by stopping the fight.
If all the fields were closer together.... you would see nothing but furballs.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Heck, lassie--the way we saw it, we took your base away from you, despite what's-his-name's premature "lol another failed bop raid" comment. I got some kills, but didn't land any. How many did you land?
:)
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See Rule #4
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Originally posted by Morpheus
See Rule #4
Sigh. Some day, morphie, you will figure out that you aren't all that funny. Really. That will break your heart.
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Why is it whenever someone starts a thread about this stuff, it always degrades to name calling?
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Originally posted by FiLtH
Why is it whenever someone starts a thread about this stuff, it always degrades to name calling?
I think it is because people feel they have to attack the person rather than the idea.
Just because the guy has an idea you believe is dumb, doesn’t imply that the guy who has the idea is dumb.
If you focus your reply on the idea rather than the individual, you have a much better chance of getting your point across.
And if the guy really is an obtuse moron, his own words will convince the others on the BBS of that fact.
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shubie and co make "raid" on field that is 1.5 sectors from theirs... something furballers would never do but.... it creates a fight... a horde of fighters come in. great fight but they get slaughtered... far fields make for an impossible furball situation... next they come in, in high fighters 51's and mossies... obviously they don't have joysticks tho so they either crash into the ground or are slaughtered... they take out an outhouse or two... next... bomber raid... fh or two go down... lots of suicide fighters make it through to take out a building or two... last... big push... shubie even tries a fighter.. the strat girls die like flies but there is a lot of em... they take the base..
Obviously laz you have been playing for some time now since you can pick out who is playing with a joystick and who is not.So why is it that they take a base from you and yours?Noobs actually took a base !
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
Obviously laz you have been playing for some time now since you can pick out who is playing with a joystick and who is not.So why is it that they take a base from you and yours?Noobs actually took a base !
Because the game is not perfect. No matter how many you kill, eventually you run out of ammo (in my case 1 or 2 will use all of it :D )
Then, you just cant make it off the runway. Do not confuse numbers with skill.
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Then, you just cant make it off the runway. Do not confuse numbers with skill.
why take off from a base that is being attacked for capture?Vulch bait?
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You can really only stop so many planes from doing a power dive from 15k+ down to an FH before 1 or 2 slip through, then 1 or 2 becomes 7 or 8 and before you know it the FH's are all dead and the field is toast.
I've come to one conclustion. If guys like shubie really do-not-want-fight, then what is the point in me going after them? Rather they'll pork the FH's out of spite... And that's their idea of fun?
I log in the game to fight. That's it... The better the fight, the more frequent they are the more fun I have.
What fun would it be to try and fight someone who doesnt want to fight? Not much fun at all.
Is that "fight" with the person who doesnt want to fight going to be very good? No.
The fact that this topic is old and tired is a huge understatement. And I can only hope that things changein the MA once ToD comes out.
why take off from a base that is being attacked for capture?Vulch bait?
Because some dont find it enjoyable to fly 10 minutes to a fight.
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You can really only stop so many planes from doing a power dive from 15k+ down to an FH before 1 or 2 slip through, then 1 or 2 becomes 7 or 8 and before you know it the FH's are all dead and the field is toast
Because some dont find it enjoyable to fly 10 minutes to a fight.
The best way i have found is to climb to altitude when i figure out which base they are hitting and meet them about 1/2 way to the target when they are still climbing and heavy.If they have fighter escort they usually dont figure out whats goin down till after its goin down.
you guys like to have fun a certain way and the rest of us like to have fun a certain way.Dont name call and hate those others just cuz thats how they have fun,and even if they do get off on making you guys miserable
killing them before they even get to their target will probably ruin their fun
and make them mad.
IMHO anyone who flys and fights down and the deck makes that choice and has to deal with the end results.
and BTW this thread has been very respectful compared to the other threads on the subject.
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IMHO anyone who flys and fights down and the deck makes that choice and has to deal with the end results.
You're absolutely right.
On the other hand, when we're talking about a group of bases that are close together, furball island for example, where this group of bases were designed and layed out to catalyze fights... why go and bomb the fighter hangers and or take all the bases on that island?
There's really only a couple answers for that kind of thing.
1- Its done out of spite.
2- They think that by taking away the ability to furball, those who were furballing will help in turn help them to fight somewhere else so they can take their bases.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
You're absolutely right.
On the other hand, when we're talking about a group of bases that are close together, furball island for example, where this group of bases were designed and layed out to catalyze fights... why go and bomb the fighter hangers and or take all the bases on that island?
There's really only a couple answers for that kind of thing.
1- Its done out of spite.
2- They think that by taking away the ability to furball, those who were furballing will help in turn help them to fight somewhere else so they can take their bases.
3- That's what they want to spend there $14.95/month doing
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Originally posted by Blammo
3- That's what they want to spend there $14.95/month doing
Wrecking a fight in an area that was designed to encourage fights?
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furball island for example
I agree with you fully on that 1.Myself and the squad i fly with always up from a distance away from furball island and look for bombers over the island.The majority of the time we see several flights of bombers and a lot of fighters.That island is also a tank battling island and i love to GV every now and then so i dont like the bombers flying around taking down all the VH's.
That works for me though because i don't come down below 10-K unless i,m landing.A pilot has to have some sort of rules set up for ones self when looking for targets.If i happen to run into a fighter at 25-K,that's exactly what i want,a 20-K furball.Maybe you guys should do like we did back in AH-1 and start furballing at altitude,1/2 of these noobs you are referring too
would never be able to ruin anything.Just my thoughts.(S)
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shubie... you still don't get it..
We don't care if you take 10 bases or not... we aren't defending the base we are fighting.. if I have the choice of stopping the mouse wielders from divebombing or fighting a clup of red planes... I'm gonna go for the red planes every time..
How many did I land? don't know... in the failed first raids.... maybe a half dozen... got killed with six when the field was taken and I beat up the mouse wielders... think I collided with you after a pilot wound and no vator or rudder and still killed you for the second or third time.
probly about 40 or so perk points in the 4 or five sorties before the fight was over.... not that I have much use for perk points.... just thought I would throw that out since the mouse wielders will spend days just to get 25 of em.
autopilot... I can't really pick out who is playing using a mouse or not.... I can just tell who it wouldn't make a difference if they were using a mouse of a joystick and believe me.... none of those guys put up more of a fight than if they had been using only a mouse and didn't know there were view keys.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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It wouldn't suprise me to find out that some do it just to piss off the BKs. Mouse wielders with 1000 pounders. :D
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That works for me though because i don't come down below 10-K unless i,m landing.A pilot has to have some sort of rules set up for ones self when looking for targets.If i happen to run into a fighter at 25-K,that's exactly what i want,a 20-K furball.Maybe you guys should do like we did back in AH-1 and start furballing at altitude,1/2 of these noobs you are referring too
I flew AH1 for probably close to 3 years before we were graced with AH2. IMHO AH1 was bar none far better as far as fights go. But they were not all high alt fights by any means. The vast majority of fights I remember back then were 10k and below, and people wanted to fight. (That's not to say there were not fights at higher alts, I just never felt the need to spend 15 or 20 minutes to climb to 20k for a fight when there were plenty of fights much lower.) Which is another huge differnce I find in the majority of planes I come into contact with now as compared to then. If someone doesnt have the advantage as far as alt or speed or plane type, they hit the deck tuck tail and run. Again, that's all well and good if they're that afraid of dying, but to me that's just not fun. I dont have to kill and live only to land kills.
I'd rather have one kick ass, fight 10 times in a row and die every-single-time, then get 10 horribly boring kills and land. A great place to find 1 great fight 10 times in a row is furball island. That is until it's destroyed and captured.
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Originally posted by Lye-El
It wouldn't suprise me to find out that some do it just to piss off the BKs. Mouse wielders with 1000 pounders. :D
Me thinks you're right. As a matter of fact, when I've flown for a country that my squadmates aren't. I've heard several ppl ask where the BKs are fighting and say with a laugh that they're going to spoil they're fun.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
Wrecking a fight in an area that was designed to encourage fights?
No, bombing fighter hangars because that's what they have fun doing. Perhaps they get a rush by flying through bandits to accomplish that goal...who know. But since they are paying for the priviledge, they get to do what they want.
I think your issue is with HTC. If they do not put a restriction on that sort of thing, then by implication it means it is ok with them if it happens. You cannot make them stop doing it with your constant harping anymore than they can make you stop furballing, looking for a good fight, starting flame wars or trolls on this board.
FYI: I can't speak to everyone, but typically if I go in a bomb a VH, FH or BH, I am not thinking "oh boy, this will sure ruin everyone's fun...yee ha!" or "Man, they're having a good fight going...that's it! I am going to end that right now!" However, I would be willing to reason that if a "furballer" or a "just-looking-for-a-good-fight" type sees some bombers or a joba mission, they lick their chops and think "YAHOOO....I am gonna bust that up fer sure!!!" Ironic, don't you think?
Besides, this is just a game and you all go away when I log off, so what should I care?
...sorry, just had to throw that one in. Consider it a freebie.
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You cannot make them stop doing it with your constant harping anymore than they can make you stop furballing
Oh rgr, I was under the impression that we used FH's (the FH's they bomb on furball island for example) to launch fighters from. Fighters that were used to furball with. But if we dont have FH's what do we furball with?
This is all far too complicated for me now.
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ok so HTC will you make furball island FHs and VHs indestructable? DO IT! you have done so much to make bombers and gver's happy it is time for a fighter gift. my question is to the toolshed bombers who ruin the fun on purpose without taking a base, what do you do after the FHs are destroyed?
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
why take off from a base that is being attacked for capture?Vulch bait?
Because if you take of from the next field 10 minutes away if the FH are even up, the base is gone. So, you take a chance and try to up, if you do then a few wariers will die augering or killshooting them selfs. If not, oh well. Don't expect you to get that though.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
Wrecking a fight in an area that was designed to encourage fights?
So you were wrong. There is really only one reason to do something like that :D
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I'd rather have one kick ass, fight 10 times in a row and die every-single-time, then get 10 horribly boring kills and land. A great place to find 1 great fight 10 times in a row is furball island. That is until it's destroyed and captured.
just remember that when you shoot someone down and then talk about owning.
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typical response.
and expected.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
A great place to find 1 great fight 10 times in a row is furball island. That is until it's destroyed and captured.
I think the reality in AH2 is that there are people who get off on stopping others from furballing.
As long as their are people who enjoy stopping furballs, whether it be with a buff, or a shore battery, or by capturing fighter/tank towns, we are going to have this problem.
This is HighTech's universe. If he decides to do something to stop the furball snuffers' then it will end. If he decides that he likes things the way they are, then ruined furballs will continue. I have my own personal likes and dislikes. HT has a business to run. I imagine he will do that which he thinks is best for business, that is, that which will keep the most players paying their $15 bucks a month. If I were in his shoes, I would do the same.
Personally, I want to find fights, and find them quickly. But I don't consider upping at a field that's being vulched as a fight. Now if the fight is real close to the field, and I can get up and at 'em with a reasonable chance to get a few scalps, that is Nirvana! :)
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when i fly bombers i alway shut down the vulch at a base,because i am trying too take that base.Anymore when there are 30 friendlys at an enemy field only 3 of them are trying too take that field and 2 of those know what they are doing.I dont shutdown furballing because furballing happens when someone is trying too take the base and are stopped.
Seriously if you guys want uniterupted furballing go to the DA.There was this thing in the DA not too long ago called Tank Klubb,and all the tankers went in there too battle each other not having to worry about people bombing them.So why cant you guys do the same thing?
Or go to the CT,there is nothing but furballing in that arena.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
Oh rgr, I was under the impression that we used FH's (the FH's they bomb on furball island for example) to launch fighters from. Fighters that were used to furball with. But if we dont have FH's what do we furball with?
This is all far too complicated for me now.
I figured it would be.
Like I said, your problem is with HTC. They host the maps, they make the game, they make the rules, they set the environment determine the little virtual world we virtually fight and virtually die in. You need to take your greivance to them, not to other players who are, like you, just trying to what makes this game fun to them.
However, if you just prefer to spend your time whining and crying and weeping, please, by all means, continue...I have no sympathy because once I click the little x, you go away. You have as much right as anyone to do what you want, within the rules, here or in the MA, as anyone else.
By the way, would you be willing to go to the DA sometime and teach me a few things about A2A? I would appreciate it.
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Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
I think the reality in AH2 is that there are people who get off on stopping others from furballing.
As long as their are people who enjoy stopping furballs, whether it be with a buff, or a shore battery, or by capturing fighter/tank towns, we are going to have this problem.
This is HighTech's universe. If he decides to do something to stop the furball snuffers' then it will end. If he decides that he likes things the way they are, then ruined furballs will continue. I have my own personal likes and dislikes. HT has a business to run. I imagine he will do that which he thinks is best for business, that is, that which will keep the most players paying their $15 bucks a month. If I were in his shoes, I would do the same.
This game, from what I understand through reading hitechs posts, not only in back when it was first introduced but also from within the recent past, was designed to simulate fighter combat (ie dog fighting). How much dog fighting is there when you can take off from a base because the fighter hangers have been bombed? Not much right? Is the new Idea of fighter combat climbing to 20k to intercept a group of jabo's who DO-NOT-WANT to fight?
Its completly understandable that HT saw it more profitable to apeal to a much broader spectrum of players. I just think that it would be nice for him to keep in mind that there are people who still like to fly light fighters and ONLY like to fight.
Should the FH's at furball island be made indestructable? Hell yes.
Should the Ord be disabled at those fields? Hell yes.
Should those bases on furball island NOT count towards reseting the map? Hell yes.
And I am tired of hearing "take it to the DA". Before there was a DA, there was an MA. An MA that wasnt based solely on base capture alone. Once base capture came into the picture, and the "idea" behind the game swayed more towards winning this imaginary war rather than dog fighting. Exceptions should have been made in the MA for those who do not have any care for base capture or this "war".
By the way, would you be willing to go to the DA sometime and teach me a few things about A2A? I would appreciate it.
I would be happy to but, I don't have a stick at the moment and it might be some time until I do. Tried to fly last night with a mouse just for s/g's. Wasnt happening.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
This game, from what I understand through reading hitechs posts, not only in back when it was first introduced but also from within the recent past, was designed to simulate fighter combat (ie dog fighting).
But not exclusively...or else, why have more than three airfields on a map (one for each country). From the very beginning (I know, I played the beta), there have been multiple fields spread out across a large map. Frontline fields, rear area fields, large fields and small fields. The whole idea was to bring the full scope of air combat. Yes, we have bombers and yes, we have GVs, but at the end of the day it does all center around the fighter. Only, there has to be more than that or else it becomes a pointless quake fest.
Once again, if HTC didn't want it that way, they would change it. Your issue is not with tool-shedders, it is with HTC for allowing tool-shedders.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
This game, from what I understand through reading hitechs posts, not only in back when it was first introduced but also from within the recent past, was designed to simulate fighter combat (ie dog fighting). How much dog fighting is there when you can take off from a base because the fighter hangers have been bombed? Not much right? Is the new Idea of fighter combat climbing to 20k to intercept a group of jabo's who DO-NOT-WANT to fight?
Its completly understandable that HT saw it more profitable to apeal to a much broader spectrum of players. I just think that it would be nice for him to keep in mind that there are people who still like to fly light fighters and ONLY like to fight.
Should the FH's at furball island be made indestructable? Hell yes.
Should the Ord be disabled at those fields? Hell yes.
Should those bases on furball island NOT count towards reseting the map? Hell yes.
And I am tired of hearing "take it to the DA". Before there was a DA, there was an MA. An MA that wasnt based solely on base capture alone. Once base capture came into the picture, and the "idea" behind the game swayed more towards winning this imaginary war rather than dog fighting. Exceptions should have been made in the MA for those who do not have any care for base capture or this "war".
You are preaching to the choir when talking to me.
I would really love for each map to have a fighter town area where we furballers could go and have it out. Personally I say to Hell with all this strat stuff. I just want a first person shooter "Quake High" furball. Let the others win the war that means so much to them. I couldn't care less about any "war" or the perks that go with it.
I just want to dogfight, cherry pick, vulch, HO, kill steal, gang-bang, or whatever you want to label it.
I want fights, I want them fast, I want them intense... (AKFokerFoders eyes start to glaze over, and flecks of foam appear at the corner of his mouth).
But I ain't gonna get that in LA' s High :(
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You know in the CT there is nothing but furballing.
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
You know in the CT there is nothing but furballing.
in the ct there is crappy planes a vulch dweebs and no competition.
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
Or go to the CT,there is nothing but furballing in that arena.
This is good advice.
- oldman
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
You know in the CT there is nothing but furballing.
A: There are hardly any players in the CT
B: There is a limited planeset in the CT
C: The planeset is often lopsided with one side or the other having the better planes (and usually the more players)
D: I don't like the CT for reasons A, B,C and several others that I will keep to myself.
The CT has a purpose, the MA has no real purpose other than to... to something or another about some "war" which means to win a map.
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I consider myself to be both I guess. I prefer to mix it up though, and was honestly pissed last night when a strat weenie nuked 3 cv's off our base. It was the best, base changed hands (not ownership) multiple times but there was a crap load to shoot down.
Last night we all jumped in 24's to reduce a base for an attempted capture. Grabbed to 7k, and saw 7 cons all coming at us. we were in formation to give each other cover while one bombed unmolested. And the likewise when the first ones bombs were gone the rest would be able to. 7 planes shot down, 1 buff lost whole crap load of smoking buffs but we made it back and to be honest it was pretty intense. So I can see where the buff drivers have their fun, if it is to just lancstuka a cv then I am agaisnt it, but to carry out a mid alt mission in hostile environment well more power to them. I have found most of the really good buff drivers are very good in fighters as well. So it's a 2 sided coin.
And if you have never flown a buff before and always a fighter well, IMO your missing out on the entire game. It adds variety and spice to change things up a bit. I just hate the suicide lancstukas.
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Ive got an idea. A challenge. The furballers vs the toolshedders as the thread title implies. Everyone interested, especially those passionate enough about the game to have replied to these types threads, form teams.
The FURBALLERS, and the TOOLSHEDDERS. Once we have the teams, we do the following.
1. CV bombing competition. Each teammember individually tries to sink a CV from 25k level bombing in B24s. The furballers can actually try to show the toolies how hard it is, or easy depending on how good they are at it.
2. Both teams fight eachother, a random drawing for opponents, and see who wins overall.
If one or more fighter guys sink a cv on their "mission/test", then the FURBALLERS can declare buff free MA zone for one night, for all the toolies involved.
If one or more toolies kill their furballer opponent, then the losing furballer must spend the next night after the buff free night, doing nothing but toolshedding.
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Filth, I don't think you're going to find many people who will claim that sinking a manuevering CV from 25k isn't an accomplishment, but I also think you're deluding yourself if you think this is the way that most CVs get sunk.
I have to say I like ahgod69's post that's right above yours.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
And I am tired of hearing "take it to the DA". Before there was a DA, there was an MA. An MA that wasnt based solely on base capture alone. Once base capture came into the picture, and the "idea" behind the game swayed more towards winning this imaginary war rather than dog fighting.
I haven't been around flying Aces High since inception, only since I think about Tour 9. At that time base capture was definately in the picture, at what point did it come into the picture? Must have been pre tour 9.
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That looks great on paper filth, but it would never fly.
Its just like that "Memorial Flight" someone had not too long ago. Where they asked everyone not to engage as they fly about the MA in their rides of choice. That went ok for about 10 minutes.
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Why not take the simple route:
HTC requires that each map has an area surrounded by 40,000 foot mountains, it only has three bases (one for each side), The bases allow you to only up fighters, all ordinance is disabled and no GVs. In addition, you make the ack über TM deadly and accurate to discourage vulching/de-acking. Furthermore, you make the FHs indestructable. Clear the areas of trees, make it a flat as possible, put the bases no more that 1 sector apart and the whole area no bigger the two sectors by two sectors. Finally, you make is so these three fields are not included in the count concerning winning the war.
I know it won't happen, but it would sure settle a few things.
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Seems to me that if buffs get intercepted a little more often then this subject is dead in its boots..............
fact is they are not.........
A point was made that (on some maps) quite often we find everyone (in large groups) on offence and no one on defence.................
Rather than moaning about what one player enjoys as opposed to another, it would be more positive to seek a terrain or gameplay feature that motivates or gives cause to offensive and defensive game play equally.
I cant help but think that whilst land grab is the correct focus it should not be centred around the aquisition of fixed airfields with attritable tactical objects....the concept is unreal and frankly getting old.
Cities, logistics, transport routes, land armies should be the focus of landgrab and airfields should be vacated or opened as the "front" moves closer or further away.
Local land grab would be based more upon types of vehicle fields.....or garrison towns/cities and ports...vehicle spawns would concentrate between these and bombing of these targets would assist in final capture.
Encirclement or the isolation of air fields from all of their several logistic source routes (thru capture of these other facilities )would cause those sources to gradually deplete.......until the airfield is lost.......once the airfield is lost to one side then the resources of the opposing side begin to flow in.....
infact the front (in terms of logistic control) would have already have moved past the defending side and the next furball is over the next ground target.
Thus removing tactical porkage of airfields (at airfields) but retaining strategic attrition of general resources.
If land grab moves away from the focus upon the airfield....the vulcher or airfield suicide bomber then does not satisfy the motivation of the land grab......temporary runway suppression has no reward in terms of local capture.
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Originally posted by lazs2
Ok... let's get some things straight.... some of you are under the mistaken idea that there is some form of simbiotic relationship between the mouse wielders and the noble furballers...
There is not... not needed anyways... the noble furballers do not need the base capture mouse wielding "win the war" types... for they most part they are just a way to get hit percentage up... of no real use to a true furballer anyway...
There may be some instances where the attempted base capture benifiets the noble furballer but that is incedental... not really something to strive for..
no.. the relationship is more like that of a leech and it's host... the pathetic mouse wielders need the noble furballers but the oppossite is not at all true... in fact.. the pathetic mouse weilders are allways harmfull to their host furballers.
If the fields are close together the noble furballers make their own fun with no consideration for the anything but the fight. Any "participation" by the pathetic mouse wielders is just leech activity.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
So Lazs to understand you correctly. Mouse wielders aka toolshedders are parasitic in nature and serve a diminuitive function in the game?
Just curious Uber.
:aok
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Originally posted by Blammo
Why not take the simple route:
HTC requires that each map has an area surrounded by 40,000 foot mountains, it only has three bases (one for each side), The bases allow you to only up fighters, all ordinance is disabled and no GVs. In addition, you make the ack über TM deadly and accurate to discourage vulching/de-acking. Furthermore, you make the FHs indestructable. Clear the areas of trees, make it a flat as possible, put the bases no more that 1 sector apart and the whole area no bigger the two sectors by two sectors. Finally, you make is so these three fields are not included in the count concerning winning the war.
I know it won't happen, but it would sure settle a few things.
If I made the area, there would be trees everywhere to keep people from ditching. You get shot up, the other guy gets his kill.
But as you pointed out, in all probablility it isn't going to happen
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Originally posted by Tilt
Seems to me that if buffs get intercepted a little more often then this subject is dead in its boots..............
fact is they are not.........
A point was made that (on some maps) quite often we find everyone (in large groups) on offence and no one on defence.................
Rather than moaning about what one player enjoys as opposed to another, it would be more positive to seek a terrain or gameplay feature that motivates or gives cause to offensive and defensive game play equally.
I cant help but think that whilst land grab is the correct focus it should not be centred around the aquisition of fixed airfields with attritable tactical objects....the concept is unreal and frankly getting old.
Cities, logistics, transport routes, land armies should be the focus of landgrab and airfields should be vacated or opened as the "front" moves closer or further away.
Local land grab would be based more upon types of vehicle fields.....or garrison towns/cities and ports...vehicle spawns would concentrate between these and bombing of these targets would assist in final capture.
Encirclement or the isolation of air fields from all of their several logistic source routes (thru capture of adjacent )would cause those sources to gradually deplete.......until the airfield is lost.......once the airfield is lost to one side then the resources of the opposing side begin to flow in.....
infact the front (in terms of logistic control) would have already have moved past the defending side and the next furball is over the next ground target.
Thus removing tactical porkage of airfields (at airfields) but retaining strategic attrition of general resources.
If land grab moves away from the focus upon the airfield....the vulcher or airfield suicide bomber then does not satisfy the motivation of the land grab......temporary runway suppression has no reward in terms of local capture.
IMNSHO, the reason that bombers are not as heavily attacked as they could be is due to the fact that the airquake players don't have the patience needed to climb and intercept. It's more instantly gratifying to take off from a CV, get the gear up, and start twisting and turning. The furballers have said this many, many times, and I BELIEVE THEM. I just don't AGREE with them.
I really don't know how TOD will turn out, but I do think that the future of this game is in "better" gameplay elements, such as the strategic system you are suggesting. I like the basic concept of the game as is--capture of territory through the use of air, land, and sea elements. I hope that in the future they (HTC) can add depth to the strategic and tactical side of the game, thus improving the challenge I enjoy so much now.
Good thoughts, Tilt! Somebody at HTC is reading them, and maybe a germ of a Big Idea will come of it.
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Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
If I made the area, there would be trees everywhere to keep people from ditching. You get shot up, the other guy gets his kill.
But as you pointed out, in all probablility it isn't going to happen
I didn't think about that aspect of the trees. Based on that, not only should we have trees, but the terrain should be as rough and uneven as possible. Then ditching anywhere other than an airfield would be out of the question.
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So this thread represents a cross section of like minded individuals who either favor "furballing" or mouse weilding / Tool shedding and people who do both. Where is the problem here?
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Furballing is for people with no 1337 thinking skills, toolshedding is for people who have no virtual combat skills and must use their strategic intelligence to show how good a soldier they are.
quite frankly I prefer my personal category as GOD OF THE INTERNET FLIGHT SIM.
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Originally posted by uberhun
So this thread represents a cross section of like minded individuals who either favor "furballing" or mouse weilding / Tool shedding and people who do both. Where is the problem here?
Naw uber, this is the same thread that has been in existence since I started playing AW.
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<-- furballer and tolshedder, soo what??? should i feel guilty for taking bombs in my plane?
IMOP over 95% of the players,are enjoing both sides of the fun, furbaling /base capture,defence
Without the"tolshedders " this game would colapse,if the bases would be uncapturable most of the players would cancel acount.
Who cares about the oppinion of few dweebs flying in circles intill they puke?!. Keep puking in you spits not on BB
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Originally posted by ghi
Who cares about the oppinion of few dweebs flying in circles intill they puke?!. Keep puking in you spits not on BB
YEAH!!! Stick it to them!!!
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B: There is a limited planeset in the CT
The way some of these virtual pilots talk on these boards about there skills and owning this person and that person the plane set wouldn't be a problem for them.The CT staff does a wonderful job at keeping the planeset
as equal as possible.
As far as vulching,this will happen no matter what arena you are in.You just have to be smart enough not too take off from a field being vulched.
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Originally posted by ghi
Keep puking in you spits not on BB
:D
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"Seriously if you guys want uniterupted furballing go to the DA.There was this thing in the DA not too long ago"
play offline if you wanna toolshed and bomb...not the same is it?
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HTC requires that each map has an area surrounded by 40,000 foot mountains, it only has three bases (one for each side), The bases allow you to only up fighters, all ordinance is disabled and no GVs. In addition, you make the ack über TM deadly and accurate to discourage vulching/de-acking. Furthermore, you make the FHs indestructable. Clear the areas of trees, make it a flat as possible, put the bases no more that 1 sector apart and the whole area no bigger the two sectors by two sectors. Finally, you make is so these three fields are not included in the count concerning winning the war.
All 3 fields in 1 sector at 5k.... nice.
If I made the area, there would be trees everywhere to keep people from ditching. You get shot up, the other guy gets his kill.
You're almost there grasshopper. Although, a true furballer does not care about getting "the kill" as long as the other guy is taken out of the fight. There is no finer kill than a manuver kill. The trees suck and are only a nusiance to the furballer as they take away from the fight.
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Vudak I wasnt saying thats how most cv are sunk...most seem to be sunk by suicide P47s and B26s from what Ive seen. But I needed to think up a challenge that the buffers may have a slight edge on from bombing so much, over the furballers. I thought that sufficed.
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Originally posted by FiLtH
Vudak I wasnt saying thats how most cv are sunk...most seem to be sunk by suicide P47s and B26s from what Ive seen. But I needed to think up a challenge that the buffers may have a slight edge on from bombing so much, over the furballers. I thought that sufficed.
Well heck, they sure got me there, I don't even know how to get a bomber up that high in the first place :D
It was an interesting competition idea though. I was wondering, for the fighter portion, were you thinking "team vs. team" or drawing a name out of a hat from each group and having them go at it best out of 5 individually?
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Yes out of a hat. Draw the opponent for your match out of a hat..best of 3, 5 whatever. Decide beforehand what the basic setup would be, alt etc.
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I see a number of posts trying to change the subject of the argument so they can defend against the accusation that base capture is somehow unethical. This is beside the point.
The problem has always been that the strat dweebs want to feel useful, and the only way they feel like bombing targets makes a difference is if they bomb the ones that the most people are reliant on. A better strat system could alieviate this, perhaps.
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
The way some of these virtual pilots talk on these boards about there skills and owning this person and that person the plane set wouldn't be a problem for them.The CT staff does a wonderful job at keeping the planeset
as equal as possible.
As far as vulching,this will happen no matter what arena you are in.You just have to be smart enough not too take off from a field being vulched.
Well first of all, you are quoting me, and when do you find me on the board bragging about my skills and owning this person or that person????
For me plane set does matter. I don’t like Zeke or most of the Japanese kee rap, they don’t fit my flying style. They may fit your style, and you may be able to hand me my butt flying your Japanese ride of choice, but that doesn’t mean they fit me.
I really don’t like the German junk either, but that is what I mainly fly... Mostly 109s; the 190s (even with the porked AH FM) are way too amazing to fly regularly.
Spits are way to easy to fly, but have their purpose, just too easy... the P51D is just a monster, the PonyB has guns that suck (it would be perked if it had cannons), the P47’s don’t seem to be something I can fly.
I hate seeing my name landing kills in s LA, it’s down right embarrassing, but I use them now and then when we get really hammered.
I am now stuck with the 109’s and the F4U-1, both are junkers, but they will get you kills and take you home most of the time if you fly smart. Get stupid in them, and get dead quick, no run-a-way like a LA, or Pony or Dora.
Bombing is like watching a golf match on tv.
GV’s at best suck although I get in a Flack Panzie at a base being vulched just for spite.
So for me planeset matters…
And for me the CT sucks. I remember being in there and having to fly Zekes against F4U’s and F6F’s. Balance planeset my butt. And getting gang banged in the CT is just like getting gang banged in the MA, just fewer people. For you the CT may be Nirvana here on earth, so go there and have fun, I wish you well.
But don’t get on the BBS and tell me that I say I “own” this game, or think I’m some uber pilot; my kill stats will quickly prove otherwise. I can do pretty good one on one, but I am no where near the best. Ask anyone who’s kicked my butt lately.
I just want to furball, and I want to do it in something other than a Spit or a LA7.
I am also getting sick of the toolshedders in the MA.
Maybe it's time to take a break from this game.
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You dont have to go all Andey Rooney on me AKfoker.
And for me the CT sucks. I remember being in there and having to fly Zekes against F4U’s and F6F’s. Balance planeset my butt. And getting gang banged in the CT is just like getting gang banged in the MA, just fewer people. For you the CT may be Nirvana here on earth, so go there and have fun, I wish you well.
I hate jap planes as much as the next American.In the right hands they can be a deadly plane.
But don’t get on the BBS and tell me that I say I “own” this game, or think I’m some uber pilot; my kill stats will quickly prove otherwise. I can do pretty good one on one, but I am no where near the best. Ask anyone who’s kicked my butt lately
who said it was all about you?
GV’s at best suck although I get in a Flack Panzie at a base being vulched just for spite.
Good keep it up i love shootin flak-panzers in my tiger while i Rape and pillage a base.
I really don’t like the German junk either,
Seems you wouldnt like any planes at all.
Maybe it's time to take a break from this game
Maybe your sorta right on that one,but instead focus your attention else where like the TA,maybe help out a seal,sorry noob and pass forward some of what you know.Maybe even while you are in the TA try out some of the planes that are normally hard for you too fly but yet others hand you your prettythang in.
Well first of all, you are quoting me, and when do you find me on the board bragging about my skills and owning this person or that person????
I didnt really mention any names on that post but im glad you stepped up to the plate and was honest.I hope that i have quoted you enough times this post so that you dont feel left out in the dark,kinda like the rest of us are.
Thank You and good day!
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Wow any of your guys last name Tolstoy?? You know this subject has really played itself out. Not to intentially hijack the thread.........but to hijack the thread. How about what are your favorite rides for Furballin/Toolshedding. Because when I get done furballing, the wife likes to put the tools back in the shed!:rofl
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If anyone misunderstood my last post I was referencing my "Flight stick"
:lol
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As I've said in another thread. the Furball is only a part of the evolution of the base capture attempt
"I've yet to see anywhere that a furball was called for a particular spot on the map.
Usualy what happens is someone tries to hit or capture a base. A few defenders up, then more attackers arrive, then more defenders and thus your furball is born.
A furball is what happens when an attack meets a stubborn defence and more and more people on both sides start to jump in and a stalemate develops. Often after someone has porked the troops on both sides.
Eventually one side gets the advantage over the other and things start breaking down. the ammo,VH's and FHs go down and the feild gets captured.
Then it all starts all over again someplace else
Furballers and landgrabbers can not only co exist but thrive together.
Furballers would make the best feild defence.
See that blob headed to that feid on the map. Head for it and defend that feild. Have a few people counter attack the opposing feild as well to also draw opposing forces to that feild for defence pretty soon each side will be upping planes to defend their feild and there you have it. a furball.
When a base is captured only the scenery changes. the furball moves to another location and starts anew."
But this nonsence of "the landgrabbers ruined the furball" is bunk
It probably was never a dedicated furball to begin with.
It just kinda happned that way.
Now maybe many moons ago there was no landgrab. there was only the furball. But thats the way it "Was" and not the way it is now.
The "Furball" as I said before now is nothing more then part of the evolution of the feild capture attepmt. And like it or not. How long it goes on is dependant on how much your williing to defend a base and what your willing to do to accomplish that.
But rest assured at some point one side or the other is goig to gain the upped hand and either your feild will be captured, or the other sides feild will be captured and then a new furball will have to be created someplace else.
And there is no reason for it not to. Simply move to the next base back and re up and fight the group thats headed into that base. Usually when one base is captured people start upping to go and try to take the next base or to try to recapture the base that was just taken.
The formula for a furball is still there. The only thing that has changed is the scenery.
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Uberhun nobody needs a roadmap......
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udderhun.... yes, I am saying that the toolshed killing mouse weilders are of no use to the furballers... they are in fact leeches... every aspect of their game depends on fighter planes.. A game of nothing but gv's and fluffs would last about a day.
If the furballers never seen another mouse powered fluff they would have an improved leech free existance. The mouse weilders need to affect the fighters game. the fighters don't need to affect the mouse weilders game.
shubie wants the fighters to spend days climbing up to his fluffs so that they can face a big fat stupid target who's only "skill" is a god like view and the control of 30 guns by one guy... It is no fun either way... it is no fun to let the fluffs kill the fight and even less fun to stop em.
When a cv get's close to a fight... the furballers go to the cv...not because they want to capture some field but because it is the closest fight around... I know this is a difficult concept for the anal retentive mouse wielders but...
The furballers do it to get into the fight quickly... when the mouse weilders say "well... if you want to keep the cv then defend it" that is like saying "if you want to have fun.... you have to smack yourself on the toes with a hammer a bunch of times while your buddy screws your old lady.
Why even go to the cv if you can't get the benifiet of the close/quicker action? what kind of waste of a human being would circle around at alt trying to stop fat, skilless targets from bombing the CV while allhis friends were down there having a great time? he would have to either be really stupid... a saint... or a mouse wielder himself.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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I'm amazed that this stupid thread is still going. You solve anything yet?
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Udderhun?? Good one lazs:aok You know lazs. Admit it or not their is a necessary symbiotic relationship between the furballers and the toolshedders that makes the game a complete experience. This for you unfortunately is a necessary fact. Are fighters a big element of the game? Well of course they are. They comprise 85 % of the current inventory. But it does not diminish the neccesity of the other componets that make this game as fun as it can be "Lazy":rofl
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nope.... wrong again... the fluffs and gv's are absolutely not needed for a good furball. the oppossite is not true tho. there would be no point to picking up the old mouse and spending those thrilling hours listening to the drone of artifical engines on the way to the thrill of bombing some..... some.... building... if there were no fighters in the game.
this will be solved in TOD tho I would imagine... all the "win the war" and "fly realisticly" guys will of course go there and prove that doing nothing can be a world of excietment..
imagine as hundreds of players wait in line to either go on that 2 hours mission or to fly for hours in formation... Imagine being on the other side.... the thrill of climbing forever in order to fly many sectors for that 2 miute battle...
the ma will be deserted save for the furballers and then we will be sorry eh?
lazs
Public Relations Officer For the BK's
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Don't get me wrong Laz. I like a good furball just like the next guy. I also like rolling through the steppes in a dozen panzers and assorted gvs. I appreciate your point and agree with a good percentage of it. I guess the challenge I have is your lack of apprecation for the other asspects of the game. I totally agree with you about tod. When that goes live it will be the flavor of the month untill the NFG's realize they can't get beyond the qualifying curve, and come back to the ma:rofl
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The furballers do it to get into the fight quickly... when the mouse weilders say "well... if you want to keep the cv then defend it" that is like saying "if you want to have fun.... you have to smack yourself on the toes with a hammer a bunch of times while your buddy screws your old lady.
after posting something like that it amazes me that your still on this BBS.
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Originally posted by lazs2
imagine as hundreds of players wait in line to either go on that 2 hours mission or to fly for hours in formation... Imagine being on the other side.... the thrill of climbing forever in order to fly many sectors for that 2 miute battle...
the ma will be deserted save for the furballers and then we will be sorry eh?
lazs
Public Relations Officer For the BK's
Wouldn't that be a like reaching Nirvana? All the toolshedders and "realistic" guys off to their own arena, and only furballers in the MA?
But you can bet your bootie, that someone who has "paid their $14.95" will want to get in a buff, or a shore battery and stop the furball. Their are guys in here who actually get off on stopping furballs. The idea that they can stop 40 or more players from having a furball by taking out their CV with a Shore Battery (talk about not having a life). I mean you sit their in a SB and blast away, notpenalty for losing the SB, and no points for killing the CV. So what else could be the reward other than to stop the furball? Oh' yah, to "save the base" (FokerFoder stops to puke in a waste basket)
Nope, no matter what you give these guys, they will want to come into whatever arena we are in and stop the fun. Whatever the fun is, be it GV battles in tank town, or furballs in FT, or whatever.
Imagine enjoying flying for 40 or more minutes in a B17 or 24 (etc) to get to alt and get over the target. (What do you do during that time? Study you third grade primer?) Then you get to bomb out some building. If you are really good you can take out the fighter hangars, or joy of joys, you could fly all the way to the NEME HQ and pork their Radar! After all, the dweebs should have spent hours in fighters circling their HQ reading their 3rd grade primers just in case some buffs come by. Imagine that? I hope you can’t. I sure wouldn’t like to live in their heads. They probably have the teacher note in their report cards “doesn’t play well with others”.
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Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
.
And for me the CT sucks. I remember being in there and having to fly Zekes against F4U’s and F6F’s. Balance planeset my butt.
You can make other cases for not liking the CT, but this doesnt hold water.
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Originally posted by pellik
I see a number of posts trying to change the subject of the argument so they can defend against the accusation that base capture is somehow unethical. This is beside the point.
The problem has always been that the strat dweebs want to feel useful, and the only way they feel like bombing targets makes a difference is if they bomb the ones that the most people are reliant on. A better strat system could alieviate this, perhaps.
Pellik, that is a logical, reasoned, rational post.
How'd it get into this thread???
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Originally posted by Slash27
You can make other cases for not liking the CT, but this doesnt hold water.
Explain,?
I am not sure how you equate Zekes against F4U's and F6F's as "balanced"
Nor some of the other matchups I see.
The big factor in the MA is that each side has exactly the same planeset. This is not historical of course, but it is balanced.
The big factor in the CT is that it is more historical, which negates the idea of "balanced."
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There are no and have not been any set ups ran that were "F-4U,F6F vs A6Ms" only. The Japanese set ups suffered for a while because of complaints about the F4U being to uber.( even though the N1K was present) Now that the Ki-84 is here its no longer an issue. The CT has plenty of issues and I dont blame you for not flying there. If its not fun then whats the point? But a an unbalanced plane set shouldnt be reason to stay away.
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Fly in the lesser plane..it feels better when you kill someone, and not as bad when you die in it :)
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Originally posted by Slash27
You can make other cases for not liking the CT, but this doesnt hold water.
Heh. Ain't that the truth?
- oldman
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Originally posted by lazs2
The furballers do it to get into the fight quickly... when the mouse weilders say "well... if you want to keep the cv then defend it" that is like saying "if you want to have fun.... you have to smack yourself on the toes with a hammer a bunch of times while your buddy screws your old lady.
That comparison is just....weird.
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Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
Explain,?
I am not sure how you equate Zekes against F4U's and F6F's as "balanced"
Nor some of the other matchups I see.
The big factor in the MA is that each side has exactly the same planeset. This is not historical of course, but it is balanced.
The big factor in the CT is that it is more historical, which negates the idea of "balanced."
Should have waited to post until I saw this.
We ran a PAC setup a couple of weeks ago that had A6M5s and Tonys against FM2s, F4Us, Hellcats, P-40Es and P-38Gs. Within about 24 hours most of the Japanese players were in A6M5s, and were doing quite well against the Allies. I suggest that this is principally because, in the CT, people really want to fight. I imagine you could maximize your points or rank or whatever by flying a 38 or a Corsair in a strictly b&z mode, and eventually you'd land some kills and advance your statistics. When you actually decide you're going to stick around and fight, though, the zekes do just fine.
The notion that the MA is balanced because each side has the same plane set is, of course, correct in a very general sense. In practice, you still have planes of very different characteristics fighting each other. Certainly you can have a greater variety of match-ups (P-51s v. Corsairs), but most of those match-ups will be unbalanced one way or the other. I also agree with you that, historically, there were very few times when the Allied v. Axis plane sets were equally balanced. In the CT we try to achieve as good a balance as we can while remaining true to history, and sometimes this works out poorly (F4Fs v A6M2s, for example, or...er...any Spitfire v. a Frank, makes for a very difficult day for the Allied player). Most times, though, you can find a ride on either side that works well.
Slash is right, you shouldn't fly in the CT if you don't think it's fun. I suspect most people really want to fly a particular plane most of the time, and you can't do that in the CT. But I do believe that it's true that you can find good, mutually-agreeable dogfights more easily in the CT than you can in the MA, where so many people seem to want to just run away from you.
- oldman
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Originally posted by Slash27
There are no and have not been any set ups ran that were "F-4U,F6F vs A6Ms" only. The Japanese set ups suffered for a while because of complaints about the F4U being to uber.( even though the N1K was present) Now that the Ki-84 is here its no longer an issue. The CT has plenty of issues and I dont blame you for not flying there. If its not fun then whats the point? But a an unbalanced plane set shouldnt be reason to stay away.
Well, my memory isn't what it should be. But I remember a CV fight where we took off from a Japanese planeset only CV against some American CV. I went Japanese because most were flying on the American side. I took a Zeke, a plane that just sux as far as I'm concerned. I ended up in a gang-bang (me being the bangee). I got 4 of the Hogs and F6's (maybe F4F). Unbelievably lucky flying and shooting on my part. But of course the Zeke is so slow, you can't leave a fight once engaged. I kept losing parts, and so I ate water. Like I said, a gang bang in the CT feels just like a gang bang in the MA. Screw that, so I logged and went back to the MA, I don't like playing target drone in a Zeke.
I did the same thing basically flying against the German planes in another event. Most were German, so I took an Allied ride, a Spit of some kind, like a 5 I think. I kept getting gang banged by high packs of 109s. Lots of fun.... for the Huns anyways. Like with the Zekes almost no one was on the Allied side.
This was all in AH1 days.
I haven't been back to the CT since that incident with the 109s. Not my cup of tea. I get gang banged enough in the MA :)
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foker fodder get's it.
and lye lye.... Of course it is weird but no more weird than saying that the only way to preserve your fun in the MA is to fly around in circles in order to stop a mouse wielder from suicide porking a good furball field....
Asking that is indeed the same as saying that to preserve your right to furball... you need to do one of the most boring things in the arena in the hope you may get to shoot down the most boring opponents in the area while your buddies are having a blast down there furballing their brains out. Doesn't seem like too much of a solution to me.
which leaves us with... there is no real, practical defense against the mouse wielding enemies of fun.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Lazs what is their to get?? Both factions and philosophies to the game play, need to exist. They co exist in a harmonic dance of give and take.:rofl
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LMAO this is still going on Blah bu blah bu blah bu blah.
thread after thread after thread of the same blah bu blah bu blah.
you should all save yourselfs a lot!! of time and typing by just going back and rereading all the blah bu blah bu blah bu blah in all the other thread you have posted in over and over and over again.
All the same people saying the same thing just go get a room allready jeesh.
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Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
I did the same thing basically flying against the German planes in another event. Most were German, so I took an Allied ride, a Spit of some kind, like a 5 I think. I kept getting gang banged by high packs of 109s. Lots of fun.... for the Huns anyways.
Thats one of the reasons alot left. I dont blame you for writing off the CT .
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Originally posted by lazs2
nope.... wrong again... the fluffs and gv's are absolutely not needed for a good furball. the oppossite is not true tho. there would be no point to picking up the old mouse and spending those thrilling hours listening to the drone of artifical engines on the way to the thrill of bombing some..... some.... building... if there were no fighters in the game.
this will be solved in TOD tho I would imagine... all the "win the war" and "fly realisticly" guys will of course go there and prove that doing nothing can be a world of excietment..
imagine as hundreds of players wait in line to either go on that 2 hours mission or to fly for hours in formation... Imagine being on the other side.... the thrill of climbing forever in order to fly many sectors for that 2 miute battle...
the ma will be deserted save for the furballers and then we will be sorry eh?
lazs
Public Relations Officer For the BK's
Not needed no. But that and from Jabbos hitting airfeilds is how furballs start these days.
It wont change in TOD.
That will get some initial interest but the Bulk of the players will still be in the MA doing the exact same things.
Why?
Same reason why the Furballers havent left.
Its where the crowd is.
And everyone, reguardless of what your into.
Wants to be where the crowd is.
The Landgrabbers as I see it isnt what the problem is anyway.
The greatest fun in the game I think is that desperate struggle over a base.
You get everything n one of those. A good numbr of both attackers and defenders a Furball. Gv attacks, GV defences, Bomber runs, feild defence. Attacking feilds. Fighting off the vulchers.
The fight is immediate. Sometimes just getting airborne is half the challange.
the Battle Teeters back and forth, the feild almost captured or almost lost. or saved at the last moment. The counter attack. or upping to break up that mission that just upped to try to once and for all finish off a base and ruining their plans
Now THAT is fun.
Furballing is...ok in small doses. But without a greater purpose gets boring. And if Im gonna do that I'd much rather find a small corner of the map with maybe a 1/2 dozen or so people from each side fighitng just for the sake of fighting.
The real problem and only part of the game I dont particularly enjoy is the Hordes that only attack either undefended or lightly defended bases.
Boring or irritating to be on either side of one of these.
Either take on a dozen people all by yourself or trip over each other to be the 1 of 12 that gets the kill on the one or two guys defending....::Yawn::
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(http://www.furballunderground.com/freehost/files/1/s-redeemerQUAH.gif)
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Originally posted by lazs2
Asking that is indeed the same as saying that to preserve your right to furball...
Right to Furball?
there is no such right......
The gameplay objectives of the MA are clearly defined in HTC's web pages and "Right to Furball" aint in it........... anywhere.
Its all about capture and strat.
Infact the gameplay objectives of capture and attrition are clearly defined.
Not so furballing or any rights there of.............infact the only reference to furballing is with respect to the dueling arena.
Seems to me that there is a written gameplay "right" to land grab and attack strat where there is no "right" to furball.
If you want a fighter only environment dont go to the MA it was not designed for you.
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Originally posted by lazs2
I am saying that the toolshed killing mouse weilders are of no use to the furballers... they are in fact leeches... every aspect of their game depends on fighter planes..
To meet the defined gameplay objectives all rides are required to generate the mix..................
Furballing is not one of the defined gameplay objectives........... its your objective
Infact furballing is not even needed...............
The arguement tends to wish to confuse the need for fighters with the need for furballers...............(when trying to meet gam,eplay objectives)
Fighters are needed..........(interception, escort, jabo etc etc) and they are fun.
Furballers are not needed (no matter how much fun they may be)....... if you wish to prove that furballers are needed the method of proving this is quite simple................... move all "furballers" to the DA and the MA will (according to your arguement) crumble into disuse.
Somehow I doubt it..............you see its been tried before.
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I agree with everything Tilt has said above^.
Originally posted by rshubert
We had a thread--and a challenge--a year or so ago. I challenged the furball crowd to stop me from taking their bases, and TOLD THEM WHICH BASES WERE GOING TO BE TAKEN. They could not get organized enough to stop the "land grab". They lost the challenge, and (most of them) were pretty pizzed off about it. But the outcome was inevitable. We could repeat the experiment again, and would probably get the same results.
ROFL! I would love to have seen this. :lol
You know, these guys pour disdain on the "toolshedders" while they refer to themselves as "combat" "pilots". In WW2, the whole purpose of the fighter defence was to ward off the enemy attack - or at least it was in Britain which is, after all, where the furballers' favourite plane, the Spit V, originated. They'd still be on the ground when they first got wind of it and would have to scramble in 2 minutes.
But it seems that these self proclaimed "combat" "pilots" in AH can't meet the challenge even when they've been told where and when the attacks are going to take place. No wonder so many of them were pizzed off, and a fat lot of good they are if they couldn't meet this challenge. All they're capable of if winning *their* game on *their* terms. They can't beat Shubie's men - if they could, they'd have fun doing it, and would have no cause to whine, in which case threads like this would not exist. But because they can't, they'll whine on the BBS instead, to embarrass/shame the "toolshedders" into playing *their way*, ie twisting sticks in SpitVs having "moved the fields close together" and having whined any furballing alternative out of existence.
They like to think of themselves as "combat" "pilots", and enjoy twisting and jerking their sticks against icons on a computer screen having mastered all the gamey tricks, or "fighting", as they are fond of calling it. They can probably shoot a guy's wing off from 800 yards (didn't happen in WW2), manoeuvre their aircraft while blacked out (didn't happen in WW2) and "listen out" for stuff creeping up on their 6 (didn't happen in WW2). And as Xmarine once pointed out, the very rhetoric these guys cling to in order to validate themselves is an insult to the brave men who actually fought and died in WW2.
What is their mantra - turning toolshed killers into "combat pilots" since ~2002?
ROFL! Turning WW2 sim realists into twisty stick gamer dorks would be closer to the mark. :rofl
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(http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Crater/5793/oswald.jpg)
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LOL Great pic!
Beetle has a few points there. There are alot of gamey things involved.
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tilt... you may have a slight point... there may be some yourop ean type fighter pilots who would be content to be accessories to the field capture... (teamwork and all that rot eh what?)
they are few and far between and not enough to make a game in the MA.. Maybe I will be proven wrong in TOD and there will be dozens or hundreds of fighter pilots chomping at the bit to.... escort bombers or... attack bombers... to be part of the big fluff game.
so tilt admits that the game needs fighters but fighters don't need the fluffs... that is fine. furballers can use fighters but they are better off without fluffs.
allmost lose a field? That isn't the excieting thing... the excieting thing is all the planes being there... It is fun when you push em back only because it gives you more time to take off without doing so under a capped field. A heavily capped field is pretty useless too but... at least you can take off.
beet clamors on about how it is unrealistic to hit something at 800 yards.. it was done tho and by guys a lot more stressed and with about 1,000 less hours practice than we have at doing what we do... plus.. no adrenilene.. he claims we shoot down planes in blackout? maybe... not many I know tho... if you try in a furball you will soon be dead... not a valid tactic... we get into action too soon? LOL compared to how soon fluffs and gv's get into action next to their real life counterparts we are allmost historical.
as for shaming "real" fighter pilots.... hardly. they did what they did because they had to and.... fear for their own life. neither applies here. If their only motive would have been fun and there was no risk of death....
Do you think those wildmen would have flown like the wussies here that beet salutes do? hell no... they would be grinning and banking and shootin... they would look at you historical guys like the boring twits you are.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Lazs, Correct me if I'm wrong here,(which I'm sure you will:lol ) I thought this game was an attempt to recreate historical wwII battle scenarios using time specific vehicles??
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Originally posted by uberhun
Lazs, Correct me if I'm wrong here,(which I'm sure you will:lol ) I thought this game was an attempt to recreate historical wwII battle scenarios using time specific vehicles??
According to HTC AHII is
Aces High II is a massive multi-player online combat simulation centered around the World War II air-war.
its gameplay is structured around
Capturing territory through the use of air, land and sea power is the objective of Aces High.
via
Territory is gained by capturing a field. A field consists of an airfield, vehicle field, or port and an adjacent town
ascendancy is achieved by destroying targets (bombing or shelling) these being
The basic categories of strategy targets in Aces High include field targets, zone targets, city targets, and supply targets.
The field targets affect availability of field items such as planes, fuel, ammo, etc. Every tower has a chalkboard displaying the field number and the current status of the field targets.
The zone targets are the factories that affect the resupply of field targets.
The city targets are the buildings within a city and they affect the resupply of the zone targets.
The supply targets are the trains, convoys, and barges that resupply damaged fields and factories.
in order to win
The war is won when any country is reduced to one field
Does "Furballing" get a mention in this.............. nope not a jot.......its not on the radar...............its not a prescribed part of the game play.
It does get a mention in one place however
The Dueling Arena contains a special terrain with separate areas for all types of game play including furballing, tanking, and canyon fighting.
Furballing for its own sake it seems are not intune with MA gameplay ...... its official...they belong in the DA
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Originally posted by Tilt
Does "Furballing" get a mention in this.............. nope not a jot.......its not on the radar...............its not a presrcibed part of the game play.
Hey genius, what do you think aerial warfare is? A bunch of you ****s milkrunning against undefended bases?
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
what do you think aerial warfare is?
It is and always has been the delivery of ordinance against ground targets and the nessecary escort and interception of the carrier of said ordinance.................... ......
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Hey genius, what do you think aerial warfare is? A bunch of you ****s milkrunning against undefended bases?
The first recorded military use of aircraft was the dropping of bombs on ground troops. (believe it, or not).
WWI flyers went up completely unarmed, to do spotting of enemy movements. Opposing pilots waved at each other. Some pilot thought to take a potshot at one of the enemy planes, and so it began...
Air warfare has always been an element of warfare in general, and cannot be separated from it. Those are indisputable facts, hub.
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Originally posted by rshubert
The first recorded military use of aircraft was the dropping of bombs on ground troops. (believe it, or not).
WWI flyers went up completely unarmed, to do spotting of enemy movements. Opposing pilots waved at each other. Some pilot thought to take a potshot at one of the enemy planes, and so it began...
Air warfare has always been an element of warfare in general, and cannot be separated from it. Those are indisputable facts, hub.
Good! WHy don't you fly at 30K filming the furbals below you then? :lol
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Hey genius, what do you think aerial warfare is? A bunch of you ****s milkrunning against undefended bases?
Hub, I suppose you had nothing to do with busting up 68ko's mission lastnight?? I saw you logged as a Knight. Naughty, Naughty!:mad:
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Originally posted by Tilt
Does "Furballing" get a mention in this.............. nope not a jot.......its not on the radar...............its not a prescribed part of the game play.
It does get a mention in one place however
So then we go into the DA to furball???
You have to ask permission to fight someone there, that is hardly a furball.
What you are really saying is that (by HT's definitions), this game is NOT for guys who want to have fun furballing.
The game is for those who want to win a "war" by strat. Therefore, "Fun" does not seem to be written into HT's idea of this game. I am not sure why others play a game, but enjoying myself is a big one for me.
It is interesting to note that when the furballers talk, they use the word "fun". When the strat people and toolsheders talk, they use the words that refer to strategy, teamwork etc.
I want a game that is fun to play. Believe me, if there was a fighter sim that was better than “LA's High”, I wouldn't be here. And as soon as I find one, believe me, I'm gone.
And then you guys can have all your "realistic" strategies game you want. You can fly your conga lines of buffs driven by porking toolsheders, and then send in a M3 to capture the debris. You won't need all those dweeby fighters who want to furball, after all fighters only get in the way of the strat. JABOs would of course be allowed, but only if they promised not to shoot down other airplanes.
So lets change the name from "Aces High" to "Toolsheders High" or “Strategic Air”
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Originally posted by Tilt
It is and always has been the delivery of ordinance against ground targets and the nessecary escort and interception of the carrier of said ordinance.................... ......
And what it came down to in the end, was bombers were most effective as bait to get the other guys fighters up so that the escorting fighters could knock em down in a war of attrition.
Air power was probably most effective once they developed air-ground coordination. This didn't involve 4 engined bombers flying low level strikes to airfields. In fact historically the 4 engined types weren't very effective at all in supporting ground operations.
The MA in AH is not a strat war, its a tac airwar. So that being said, eliminate 4 engine bombers, and bombers flying in boxes of 3. Limit it to the Tac birds, with guys having to fly single 26s, A20s, Ju88s etc on those raids to airfields. If they want a formation of buffs, then it would take some coordination on the part of the Generals to get a bomber mission to work with individual pilots for individual bombers.
ToD should provide the stratigic campaign for the long range 4 engine types and those who like to escort them deep.
In essence the MA is the airwar in France post D-Day or Russia from the start. Low alt Tactical air. The 3 plane boxes of 4 engine buffs didn't exist in that realm, and if we're going to accept this style of play in the MA, then the 4 engined buffs don't belong there.
Hows that for middle of the road compromise? :)
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Originally posted by rshubert
The first recorded military use of aircraft was the dropping of bombs on ground troops. (believe it, or not).
The first military use of aircraft was for reconnaissance. And if you don't think that reconnaissance is a military function, you haven't spent much time in the military.
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I'm curious, and I honestly don't know the answer to this. Which planes did HTC add first into the game? In the beta, what planes led development? At what point were troops and capturable bases added? At what point were ground vehicles added? When did HTC add perk points? When did HTC allow players to "win" the war? When did HTC peg winning the war to gaining perk points?
Here's what I'm guessing, and bear with me. HTC's major competition right now is WWII Online, not Warbirds. As such, they have targeted their marketing toward that crowd. However, the development of Aces High does not indicate to me a game necessarily built to accomodate a "war;" in many ways it appears an afterthought given the lack of strategic objectives and the simplistic method of base and zone capture. Simply put, this game catered to furballers and ex-Warbirders initially. As the competition evolved and changed, the game evolved and changed to compete. However, furballing undeniably played a seminal role in the creation of the game initially and is a key (though not the solitary) component of the game now regardless of what HTC's marketing says.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Well I suppose I should declare my interests here..........
Like Filth I enjoy all aspects......they all can be fun ........for me including the odd furball......especially when its spontanious.
I have no problem with furballers sharing the MA with the main thrust of the game play.
I have no problem with well designed terrains with FT's in them. (eg Do nut) Where "furballers" can play airquake undistrubed.
I think that the bombing of targets in Do nut FT was inappropriate, unnessecary and obviously done to spoil rather than enhance the enjoyment of others.
Having said that I do not beleive that "airquakers" have any more right than "toolshedders" to influence main MA gameplay by moaning here.
HTC has made the gameplay functionality of the MA quite clear and indeed given this it would seem that our "airquakers" have less claim to the stated gameplay ambitions than others.
It seems wrong to me that if HTC has stated that the DA is the place for furballing then there should also be protocol in place that prevents it (or are we confusing DA with TA)
At the same time I see mechanisms in the design and structure of the MA game play that could enhance both ambitions making it more fun for all.
Opinions may vary ...................thats just mine.
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Originally posted by uberhun
Hub, I suppose you had nothing to do with busting up 68ko's mission lastnight?? I saw you logged as a Knight. Naughty, Naughty!:mad:
LoL, I guess you failed to see that 1/2 of us went nits and 1/2 went bish? We then furballed between 21-22 I think. I did a buff run, killed some hangers, wsas fun.
Oh and hub was SPYING!@!@@!@!:lol
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I'm curious, and I honestly don't know the answer to this. Which planes did HTC add first into the game? In the beta, what planes led development? At what point were troops and capturable bases added? At what point were ground vehicles added? When did HTC add perk points? When did HTC allow players to "win" the war? When did HTC peg winning the war to gaining perk points?
Aces high is not the frist flight simulator Hitech and pyro have been involved with. If you look at older versions of WarBirds you will see Hitech and pyro name mentioned in the game credits. Field capture has been apart of those games for some time now. I'm not sure when Wb frist implemented it but it's been around since I first flew WB in 97. Its evolved over the years, too. In old WB versions you would have to kill the all ack, bomb the tower, plus land one plane on the runway before capturing a field. Around 99 it was changed to where you had to fly in a Ju52 with paratroopers, that would enter the field tower.
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Oh btw, KILL IT, KILL THIS $@$@$ THREAD!!!
QUAH!@#!
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Originally posted by SuperDud
Oh btw, KILL IT, KILL THIS $@$@$ THREAD!!!
QUAH!@#!
Now I can see hordes of toolsheders coming in to pork the thread :(
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Soda, many of the base capture features added into WB came in an ostensibily ad hoc fashion. That is, early versions clearly focused on air-to-air combat, and as the game evolved over time the additionol base capture elements appeared. Given the time period you've provided, that seems to coincide with similar changes appearing in Warbirds' direct competitor, Air Warrior III.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by SuperDud
LoL, I guess you failed to see that 1/2 of us went nits and 1/2 went bish? We then furballed between 21-22 I think. I did a buff run, killed some hangers, wsas fun.
Oh and hub was SPYING!@!@@!@!:lol
SuperDud, You guys really bent some props with the knights with that little show. I would imagine the bish feel the same way. Be carefull what you wish for guys, I think you are going to get your sytem wide furball now!:furious
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Originally posted by uberhun
SuperDud, You guys really bent some props with the knights with that little show. I would imagine the bish feel the same way. Be carefull what you wish for guys, I think you are going to get your sytem wide furball now!:furious
Hmmm, musta logged before anything happened. I don't really now what you're talking about:D
I will say that if it stirs up some fightin, I'm all for it.
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Well whatever the cause of how the MA is today, it is what it is. A big sandbox with lots of Tonkas in it. We can either build roads or just dig a bunch of holes. Face it...many of us are just too lazy, or faced with time constraints to put 100% realistic gameplay into every sortie.
Its much easier and faster to just up, reup, and up again to where the action is for many. So the next time you see a guy saying MISSION FORMING! and you just ignore it and fly off to the closest action, remember, you, in a small way are contributing to the state of affairs.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Hey genius, what do you think aerial warfare is? A bunch of you ****s milkrunning against undefended bases?
First, lol...
Second, it is has always been a desirable and sought after scenario to catch the enemy where they are not.
Read the Art of War by Sun Tzu (http://www.kimsoft.com/polwar.htm) , if you have not already.
Originally posted by uberhun
Hub, I suppose you had nothing to do with busting up 68ko's mission lastnight?? I saw you logged as a Knight. Naughty, Naughty!
Honestly, I really think hub could care less about that mission. I was part of it and while someone may have been spying, I don't think it was him. He wasn't in the mission and was very busy furballing during the countdown for it, the launch and the retaking of the field.
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Here's what I'm guessing, and bear with me. HTC's major competition right now is WWII Online, not Warbirds....
I have to disagree with you about your comments...
Aces High has no major competition :D
My $0.02, cheers.
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Originally posted by Blammo
Honestly, I really think hub could care less about that mission. I was part of it and while someone may have been spying, I don't think it was him. He wasn't in the mission and was very busy furballing during the countdown for it, the launch and the retaking of the field.
Oh, that mission. I was too busy trying to get Kak3MAW off my ankle to do anything subversive. I think I suggested that KO recruit some of the guys from Merriam-Webster, and that was about all the havoc I could wreak til I found the can of Halt! I keep near the desk.
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Hub Ya Bastage!:lol
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ok... honestly? I play to fly the best simulation of WWII prop fighter planes and thier armement.... I don't fly just to see how they perform tho... I fly to see how they perform against other planes... I love to read about WWII fighters.. the hight of prop plane advancement...
Here... HT allows us to fly the best simulation of these planes and their guns and.... we get to do it against other players all doing the same thing! the more action the more it tests the planes... sure.. a slow early plane is not gonna do that well against a late war B&Z plane if the latter has any sense at all.. but...
get into a huge furball and... you have a chance in the slowest of the planes... In a furball, more of the planeset is useful in the ma..
now take the GV's and bombers.... concession city as befits their add on situation... they are barely recognizable as the real life things they imitate... "mouse weilders" love em... their mission? to wreck the game for fighters because.... otherwise... what would be their point?
seriously... only the strangest amoung us seek out fights with the fluffs... Not when there is the rich palet of realistic fighters to chose from.... boring ol fluffs... mouse or joystick... they are one guy controling a box of three and they are as excieting as a bus and about as challenging.
simulating being the lone crew member in what should be 30 guys flying 3 planes is not much in the way of enjoying the simulation experiance... controling all those guns with a gods eye view is just plain gamey also... nothing there for the aircraft buff. same thing with the gv's to a lesser extent..
Only the fighters give the experiance of a simulated WWII equipment and it's guns. everything is better... flight model.. gunnery whatever.... and everything is better yet in a furball where the most variety of all these flight models and guns can come together mixed in with SA, skill and circumstance...
There is nothing in AH to compare with a large furball.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by Blammo
First, lol...
Second, it is has always been a desirable and sought after scenario to catch the enemy where they are not.
Read the Art of War by Sun Tzu (http://www.kimsoft.com/polwar.htm) , if you have not already.
I know that war has nothing to do with this. This is not war. War may be immersive, but it isn't fun. Ask any of our troops in Iraq.
A good game should be both fun and immersive.
"The Art of Computer Gaming" AKFokderFoder+, not in print yet (or any time soon)
Aces High has no major competition :D
My $0.02, cheers. [/B]
THAT is thee major problem with this game. I know that if HT did have competition, we may see more attempts to make this game more immersive and more fun.
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Originally posted by beet1e
What is their mantra - turning toolshed killers into "combat pilots" since ~2002?
I coined that phrase Beet...... no one else did. It is not the furballer "mantra"
In fact I think I will reinsert it into my sig right now..... just for you ;)
Dave
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Originally posted by lazs2
seriously... only the strangest amoung us seek out fights with the fluffs... Not when there is the rich palet of realistic fighters to chose from.... boring ol fluffs... mouse or joystick... they are one guy controling a box of three and they are as excieting as a bus and about as challenging.
Must say, as strange as I am, I hate "wasting" ammo on fluffs. ;)
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At the base I was defending last night the battle lasted for over two and half hours. It would go from almost capped to half way between bases and back again. Enemy air constantly slipping through to attack the field being engaged by ground defense allowing guys to up. Everybody, GVs, Ack, and Air had no lack of action. Well, the tankers didn't have anything to do in this case but everybody else had a blast. OH, yeah, I can't say everybody else or somebody will say "you have the gall to speak for everybody else." Let's put it this way, I didn't hear anybody whining on range. :D Didn't need a special "furball only" area either.
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Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
I know that war has nothing to do with this. This is not war. War may be immersive, but it isn't fun. Ask any of our troops in Iraq.
A good game should be both fun and immersive.
Foker, I was not talking about war, I was talking about strategy and tactics. I don't see anywhere that I suggest this is war or war is fun. What I was addressing is the idea that it is somehow wrong to go to an undefended or lightly defended base and take it. The Art of War is a good study in tactics and strategy. No need to jump off the deep and end think I meant something I did not.
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I bet no one made a concerted effort to drop the fighter hangers with a suicide bombing mission... they could easily have... the game allows it. You were just lucky. If the fight lasted two or three hours some no talent could have made a dozen runs on the fighter hangers in that time.
I often wonder what the fluffers coming in on a base where there has been feverish activity (furballs) for an hour or so thinks. Does he realize his presence is greeted with the same enthusiasm people have when they see a baby ruth in the swimming pool?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by lazs2
Does he realize his presence is greeted with the same enthusiasm people have when they see a baby ruth in the swimming pool?
:rofl
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Originally posted by Blammo
The Art of War is a good study in tactics and strategy.
If you seriously think this is a valid comparrison, I'm gonna bust open in my gut from laughing so hard, and maybe die.
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Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
I
THAT is thee major problem with this game. I know that if HT did have competition, we may see more attempts to make this game more immersive and more fun.
Let's dissect that statement...
1. HT has no competition (not that there aren't any pretenders, they just suck). Therefore, HT has the best product.
2. If HT HAD competition (i.e, the pretenders didn't suck so much) the game would have to get better.
So what you're saying, is that this is the best game available, but it still isn't good enough for you?
Maybe you would be taken more seriously if you had a POSITIVE, proactive suggestion, not just more adolescent "this game sucks" whiney complaints.
Just saying...
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Originally posted by Stang
If you seriously think this is a valid comparrison, I'm gonna bust open in my gut from laughing so hard, and maybe die.
Have you read it? You would find that the lessons are transferrable to gaming, business, interpersonal relations, and just about every other confrontational activity that a human can do.
In order to open your mind, you must shut your mouth, Stank.
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Originally posted by lazs2
I often wonder what the fluffers coming in on a base where there has been feverish activity (furballs) for an hour or so thinks. Does he realize his presence is greeted with the same enthusiasm people have when they see a baby ruth in the swimming pool?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Depends on your goal, lassie. I would appreciate the bomber's efforts, since my goal is to take your base. You wouldn't, since it then means that you have to find or create another furball.
Remember, it isn't all about you, except in your mind.
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AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! MY EARS MY EARS ARE BLEEDING!!!!!!
Oh wait i'm reading this......
AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! MY EYES MY EYES ARE BLEEDING!!!!!!!
THIS THREAD JUST KEEPS GOING AND GOING AND GOING AND GOING AND GOING AND GOING AND GOING GOING AND GOING AND GOING AND GOING AND GOING AND GOING AND GOING GOING AND GOING AND GOING AND GOING AND GOING AND GOING AND GOING!!!!!!!!
Can't we all just get along??? Oh wait what was I thinking asking such a question?
:rofl
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Originally posted by Tilt
Well I suppose I should declare my interests here..........
Like Filth I enjoy all aspects......they all can be fun ........for me including the odd furball......especially when its spontanious.
I have no problem with furballers sharing the MA with the main thrust of the game play.
My thoughts exactly. I enjoy certain aspects of bombers, GV's, gunning, resupplying, running in troops, and the occasional furball. I realize everyone else finds certain characteristics of the game more fun than others, and that's what makes this game fun for me. One consistent example of this is that I play with a squad of very diverse individuals. Some love flying fighters and absolutely loath bombers. I personally fly a mix of fighters and buffs, but can't hit crap in a tank. Some love to furball, and some prefer to hit strat and take bases. I have no problem with that.
What I do object to is the belittling (and personal attacks) of players by players as if one aspect of gameplay (furballing) supercedes another (strategic aquisition) in the MA.
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It's not that people are trying to belittle other people. It's the simple fact of when there's a good fight someone always comes in and kills the FHz. Honestly, there's an easy solution to all this. Either harden the FHz or go back to not being able to destroy them.
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Originally posted by PK1Mw
It's not that people are trying to belittle other people. It's the simple fact of when there's a good fight someone always comes in and kills the FHz. Honestly, there's an easy solution to all this. Either harden the FHz or go back to not being able to destroy them.
you're telling me! that once upon a time the FHs could not get destroyed?!?!? zOMFG why do they not do this now? at least in fightertown?! all the complaining will stop if this happens!
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And one more thing, for those maps that have gv and fighter towns... or furball islands... make them bases uncapturable too! :D
worth a shot.
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Originally posted by rshubert
Have you read it? You would find that the lessons are transferrable to gaming, business, interpersonal relations, and just about every other confrontational activity that a human can do.
In order to open your mind, you must shut your mouth, Stank.
I've read it.
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While I do not speak for the "furballers" I understand what there gripe is about.
If there is a legit base capture going on "troops inbound or up from attacking field" . But the cap is not sufficiant to keep fighters down. A legit drops fom alt with a bomb sight they the furballers might not have so much of a gripe with it.
Now what they are complaning about is the A** who comes in and drops the FH with lankastukas when there is no legit base capture ongoing. IE no troops inbound no troops up multiple sectors away. The person who does this is just doing it to be a griefer . This low life gets his jollies by pissing off as many people as he can .
So unless that is what you are doing don't be so offended.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Bronk
Now what they are complaning about is the A** who comes in and drops the FH with lankastukas when there is no legit base capture ongoing. IE no troops inbound no troops up multiple sectors away. The person who does this is just doing it to be a griefer . This low life gets his jollies by pissing off as many people as he can .
So unless that is what you are doing don't be so offended.
Bronk
Exactly!! :aok
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Originally posted by Stang
If you seriously think this is a valid comparrison, I'm gonna bust open in my gut from laughing so hard, and maybe die.
Promises, promises...
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Originally posted by Bronk
lankastukas
LOL
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Originally posted by FiLtH
LOL Great pic!
Beetle has a few points there. There are alot of gamey things involved.
Beetle , has nothing their , except a thumb, 4 fingers an a rosey palm as usual.
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Originally posted by rshubert
Let's dissect that statement...
1. HT has no competition (not that there aren't any pretenders, they just suck). Therefore, HT has the best product.
Yep
Originally posted by rshubert
2. If HT HAD competition (i.e, the pretenders didn't suck so much) the game would have to get better.
Yep again!
Originally posted by rshubert
So what you're saying, is that this is the best game available, but it still isn't good enough for you?
Yes, Yes, Yes!!!
You didn’t miss a single point!
Now, considering how many people have a hard time analyzing what they read today, you certainly have a solid grasp of deductive reasoning.
Originally posted by rshubert
Maybe you would be taken more seriously if you had a POSITIVE, proactive suggestion, not just more adolescent "this game sucks" whiney complaints.
Any pro-active posts I have made have been shot down (pun intended). The game sux, and the only reason I stick around is there is nothing better.
I personally want to participate in Fighter to Fighter dogfighting. No GV’s, no airfields to take or defend, no Buffs. Just a good old fashioned QuakeHigh type of furballing fun.
I don’t care if the cockpits are realistic, I don’t care if the planes are modeled or painted correctly, and I don’t care who wins the war.
And I really care even less if you want to turn this into a personal attack.
When you have to start to turn your on attack the person rather than the idea, it is a sure sign that your own ideas may be weak
Originally posted by rshubert
Just saying... [/B]
Just saying :)
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There must be several more like minded guys like you. You should arrange with them to play together in CA or DA with nary an interruption.
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Originally posted by lazs2
now take the GV's and bombers.... concession city as befits their add on situation... they are barely recognizable as the real life things they imitate... "mouse weilders" love em... their mission? to wreck the game for fighters because.... otherwise... what would be their point?
There is nothing in AH to compare with a large furball.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Explain to me this connection between bombers/GVers and Mouse weilders?
I dont get it.
Or is it just another lame and utterly moronic discription for something like "Toolshedders" that people dont like in the game and live under the delusion that if they make up a stupid name for it that people will somehow be shamed into not doing it anymore
I fail to see what the mouse has to do with it.
I only use my joystick for everything, Planes, GVs, whatever.
I am assuming the vast majority of Buff drivers GVers do the same.
I only use the mouse for the same thing evryone does reguardless of what they do.
As for whats their point? GV vrs GV Battles can be ALOT of fun too. And Im not talking about spawn camping. But rather movement and position. using the terrain to your best advantage.
Obvious you havent spent any amount of time in GVs to get the fun out of it
As for furballs.
yea there is. Take an M8 up and drive around in circles as fast as you Can all the while trying to shoot at everything in sight.
I generally equate the large furball to the mindlessness of being stuck in a running clothes dryer. Fun for a few minutes. Then you get sick.
the majority of the kills you (speaking in general terms) get are not through plane performance, or skill but rather from cherrypicking someone while he is busy trying to do the sam ot someone else.
and the majority of times you get killed is by being cherrypicked while trying to cherypick someone else.
Like I said fun for a while then zzzzzz,zzzzzz,zzzzzz
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That pretty much sums it up
Also there is a huge difference between dueling, furballing, and event style play.
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so .. how do you crew a gv and drive at the same time "running around in circles shooting at stuff"? Same way you crew a 10 man crew fluff.... by yourself, with lot's of help from concessions that make it unricognizable as the vehicle it no longer simulates... mouse weilder refers to any activity that is just as easily done using nothing but a mouse... you may use a joystick but it is not needed for what you are doing.
but... we seem to have setteled something in any case.... it seems that everyone agrees that it would be fine for everyone if we had a fighter town area surounded by 50k mountains with uncapturable fields in every map.... an area that would not count toward "winning the war" and the spoil the mouse weilders chance at that free hawaiian vacation that HT hands out every quarter for country with the most wins.
is that about right? the strat girls would be fine with that? the yourop eans?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
I personally want to participate in Fighter to Fighter dogfighting. No GV’s, no airfields to take or defend, no Buffs. Just a good old fashioned QuakeHigh type of furballing fun.
I don’t care if the cockpits are realistic, I don’t care if the planes are modeled or painted correctly, and I don’t care who wins the war.
Perhaps you should check out Microsofts Combat Flight Simulator. It sound like it meets your criteria. :)
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I think I see what your trying to say Laz. That by flying fighters, you are better than the average player.
Let me tell ya. Ive played these flight sims for years. There aint that much to it. 9/10s of it is practice, the other 1/10 is knowing something that most of the arena doesnt, and trying to keep it a secret.
When its all said and done, you are still sitting peacefully in your chair with no physical effects of G forces etc. You have none of the details of flying the real planes had. You want a flap, you click a button, you dont have to crank anything. Cant see behind you? Adjust the views to go off to the side and go way back. Real fighters didnt have that option.
Weather, navigation, deadly puffy ack, collisions with friendlies, none of these you have to worry about. Please dont make it seem like you and your type deserve some form of respect for playing a video game. Its embarrassing. Its too easy, to expect anything more, than a wtg from time to time.
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Originally posted by FiLtH
I think I see what your trying to say Laz. That by flying fighters, you are better than the average player.
Let me tell ya. Ive played these flight sims for years. There aint that much to it. 9/10s of it is practice, the other 1/10 is knowing something that most of the arena doesnt, and trying to keep it a secret.
When its all said and done, you are still sitting peacefully in your chair with no physical effects of G forces etc. You have none of the details of flying the real planes had. You want a flap, you click a button, you dont have to crank anything. Cant see behind you? Adjust the views to go off to the side and go way back. Real fighters didnt have that option.
Weather, navigation, deadly puffy ack, collisions with friendlies, none of these you have to worry about. Please dont make it seem like you and your type deserve some form of respect for playing a video game. Its embarrassing. Its too easy, to expect anything more, than a wtg from time to time.
FiLtH < Very same game you play , Huh.....
CHECKERS .........
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Yes I play this game. I get into it too. I swear when I die, and say "Die MF!" when I kill someone. But I mainly keep it to myself, unless Im drinking and decide to press the T button amongst squaddies.
The difference is, when I turn off the game, I dont put on a Wal-Mart quality leather jacket, with civil air patrol patches, and strut down to the local bar and tell war stories trying to impress the chicks. Im sorry...but thats what I hear, coming from some of these people. They think they really mean something. Face it. If you spend a great deal of time playing a video game, no matter what the game is about...chances are you're a geek. Enjoy it...it means you should be happy you dont care what others feel about you, not gloss over it with pseudo-kill tallies and bravado. Im a geek, but my wife loves me.
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Originally posted by FiLtH
The difference is, when I turn off the game, I dont put on a Wal-Mart quality leather jacket, with civil air patrol patches, and strut down to the local bar and tell war stories trying to impress the chicks.
Am I the only 1???:(
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filth... of course it is easy (the game). That is why those who have done it for a long time eventually just look for good furballs..
of all the things going on... nothing strains the SA and ability as much... nothing offers as many variables.
the guys that say they have tried the furballs and moved on to strat are really saying... "I tried the furballs but I could never do worth a damn at it so I went to some easier aspect of the game"
They will be back.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by lazs2
filth... of course it is easy (the game). That is why those who have done it for a long time eventually just look for good furballs..
of all the things going on... nothing strains the SA and ability as much... nothing offers as many variables.
the guys that say they have tried the furballs and moved on to strat are really saying... "I tried the furballs but I could never do worth a damn at it so I went to some easier aspect of the game"
They will be back.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Bull.
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Originally posted by ThunderEGG
Bull.
Please expand on this?
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(http://people.ambrosiasw.com/~andrew/funny/ambition.jpg)
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Originally posted by lazs2
filth... of course it is easy (the game). That is why those who have done it for a long time eventually just look for good furballs..
of all the things going on... nothing strains the SA and ability as much... nothing offers as many variables.
the guys that say they have tried the furballs and moved on to strat are really saying... "I tried the furballs but I could never do worth a damn at it so I went to some easier aspect of the game"
They will be back.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Been there, done that, come back sometimes. Lassie, the truth is that furballs don't get me all hot and bothered like they do you. Yes, challenging. Yes, fun. Yes, exciting. But only for a little while. Then I want to do something that challenges my other abilities and senses. Something beyond Airquake (tm).
Since you and yours are stuck somewhere in a mindset that doesn't want to even acknowledge that there might be another valid viewpoint, you don't get it. And never will, I guess.
Sad for you. It makes you unhappy and bitter. And whiney--don't forget whiney! I bet it makes you even MORE bitter to know that we others actually are having a good time, and that makes you even whinier (is that a word?).
Looking around, seeing other players enjoying themselves while you hunker in your self-pitying little bunker can't be much fun. Why do you keep doing it?
(edit for typo)
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My personal style of play includes the occasional furball, but is not limited to furballs exclusively in the MA. I ultimately prefer to help accomplish the goal of taking your base, which requires the brain to think of a strategy in accomplishing that goal. Granted I have only played for over a year, but my style of play has been consistent in that regard since I started, and that will never change.
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......i do not want to start an issue with these simple questions............
.
...... what is a "furballer"???
.
......what is a "toolsheder"???
.
......what is "furball island"???
.
..... where can i find those rules that others are reffering too???
.
i appologize for my "beginner status".......
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Originally posted by july865
......i do not want to start an issue with these simple questions............
.
...... what is a "furballer"???
.
......what is a "toolsheder"???
.
......what is "furball island"???
.
..... where can i find those rules that others are reffering too???
.
i appologize for my "beginner status".......
No apologies needed. to you for joining in the game.
These terms (furballer/ toolshedder/ furball island/ etc..etc...refer to the subliminal messages hidden in the song, "This Is the Song That Never Ends." (Yes, I have three children.)
:D
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Originally posted by july865
......i do not want to start an issue with these simple questions............
.
...... what is a "furballer"???
......what is a "toolsheder"???
.
......what is "furball island"???
.
..... where can i find those rules that others are reffering too???
.
i appologize for my "beginner status".......
SIZE]
Furball multi aicraft fight
Toolsheder One who bombs any and all buildings in game. [name is mostly used by furballers to put down bomber pilots]
fuballers one who fights in a multi aircraft fight. [name is mostly used by toosheders to put down furballers]
Furball island place an some maps where 3 sides have a field in close procimity to one another.
Rules what rules . we dont need no stinkin rules.
No need to appologize we were all new once.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Lye-El
Perhaps you should check out Microsofts Combat Flight Simulator. It sound like it meets your criteria. :)
Let me quote our friend RShubert. Shubie has excellent analytical skills, and did a very good post earlier on the state of Flight Sims today.
Originally posted by rshubert
Let's dissect that statement...
1. HT has no competition (not that there aren't any pretenders, they just suck). Therefore, HT has the best product.
Now if Shubie will allow me to expand my take on his statement (this is my take, I am not trying to put words into his mouth)
A: HT has no competition.
B: There are some other flight sims out there, but they are just “pretenders” they really just suck.
C: Therefore, Aces High is the best there is at this time.
Micro$oft Combat sim is a pretty gamey flight sim. It has all those open views, external views, you can line up a bogey that is way under your nose. Etc.
Or there is IL2 with the little arrows and stuff to help you keep track of the bogeys, and other strange stuff.
Or of course WW2 on-line where I got an account and 6 weeks later I was paying for the service but couldn’t log on line. And I couldn’t get anyone to respond to my emails to help me log on. After almost 2 months of paying for their service, and not ever being able to log on even once, not once, I cancelled my account.
So “LA’s High” is about the only option.
All I want is a Fighter Town area somewhere on the MA maps where the Toolsheders can’t interrupt our play. And then if I get tired of the FT, I can help capture a base, defend a base or something. If you keep the furballers in the MA rather than move them out to some other arena, you increase the chance that they may help win a war now and then.
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Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
All I want is a Fighter Town area somewhere on the MA maps where the Toolsheders can’t interrupt our play. And then if I get tired of the FT, I can help capture a base, defend a base or something. If you keep the furballers in the MA rather than move them out to some other arena, you increase the chance that they may help win a war now and then.
Nice
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Originally posted by FiLtH
Yes I play this game. I get into it too. I swear when I die, and say "Die MF!" when I kill someone. But I mainly keep it to myself, unless Im drinking and decide to press the T button amongst squaddies.
The difference is, when I turn off the game, I dont put on a Wal-Mart quality leather jacket, with civil air patrol patches, and strut down to the local bar and tell war stories trying to impress the chicks. Im sorry...but thats what I hear, coming from some of these people. They think they really mean something. Face it. If you spend a great deal of time playing a video game, no matter what the game is about...chances are you're a geek. Enjoy it...it means you should be happy you dont care what others feel about you, not gloss over it with pseudo-kill tallies and bravado. Im a geek, but my wife loves me.
1st off I have never been a geek .
2nd , when I came home from country.. I took that watermelon off, and I dont go to bars and talk watermelon when I left , I left, "it" their ....
3rd I wore Orange & Black Leathers and a Kevlar ....in my work ....
where you might wonder ? My job was riding HD XR 750's in AMA Grand National Flattrack .... for 32 years .... Filth you got a big mouth and sometimes you run it too much .....next time you want to do a personal attack and smear job on someone , It might help for you to have a clue as to WTF your talkin' about .......
CHECKERS
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Laz:
A thought....
There are a wide variety of sports, appealing to a wide variety of interests. Some are individual; human against self or nature. Some are team; humans working in concert to achieve goals. Some are pure thrill; human against extreme challenge, with accomplishment and adrenaline driving the "play" (like extreme skiing, gettign deposited at a mountain top and sking down without a trail).
Is running a marathon boring and wimpy, while sitting in a duck blind with a beer and a gun is manly? If one guy enjoys getting off a good defensive body check on the hockey rink, and another works all season to get a personal record on a downhill -- is one pursuit "better" than another? And (pointedly for the furballeers), although the extreme skier shooting off a snowy outcropping without quite being sure he will land safely may feel superior to the common human -- is the said common human inferior because he thinks the skier is a little nuts? That adrenaline addiction isnt necessary for achievement?
I rarely buff anymore, and I tend to seek out good fights (though I'm not a particularly good fighter). I have yet to up from any base outside the donut on that excellent map. I rarely care about base capture and I cant EVER remember porking a base. By most definitions, that would make me a furballer (of mediocre competence). Yet, i jsut dont get the point of the "furballer forever" smack talk. You love adrenaline; why does that mean everyone else's approaches stink?
And the "we dont need them" argument gets a little thin. Games that have almost pure fighter v fighter online play (like IL2) dont attract the crowd that AH2 does. Truth is, the reason you have enough people around to furball IS the variety that AH2 offers. Take out the tanks, the buffs, the land grab, the strats -- adn like it or not, you have the DA or CT. How many fighters do those arenas attract? When the DA tried to put on its own fighter town, without the MA side shows, nobody came.
Just some food for thought. (Although, I fully expect it to prove more of a food for flame...)
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Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
So �LA�s High� is about the only option.
All I want is a Fighter Town area somewhere on the MA maps where the Toolsheders can�t interrupt our play. And then if I get tired of the FT, I can help capture a base, defend a base or something. If you keep the furballers in the MA rather than move them out to some other arena, you increase the chance that they may help win a war now and then.
So you want a different game than the game that is offered? Or this one customized to your preferences?
Heavy fighters interrupt my play all the time.
LA's High? You don't care for fighters either? Don't forget the Run 90s.
Personally I want better and more field defense weapons. Limits on 1000lb bombs. Make the VH harder to drop. OH, and tracers for the 37mm I can see. HT can ya customize it to my preferences? Just to help the FT field the next time a C-47 dawdles in ya understand. :D
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Checkers Im sorry if I struck a nerve but face it...doing what we do here is slightly geeky. Getting worked up over it just makes it seem like we take it all that more seriously. And I dont believe anyone online saying they did this or that. I take em as I see em. A guy, or girl, playing an online video game, some treating it as such, some treating it more as something extra special.
1. No military agency is going to come to AH2 to recruit for piloting jobs.
2. No one else in the world cares, or is aware of this game, other than those who are into it. Or..the buddy at work who is sick of hearing about it, thinking that we stay in on saturday nights too much.
3. Ya I got a big mouth...ya I like to run it, when it needs running on someone.
4. And Checkers, what I said wasnt a personal attack...it attacked a select type of player, no one in particular was singled out.
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Originally posted by Lye-El
So you want a different game than the game that is offered? Or this one customized to your preferences?
Customized would be just fine, I’m easy to please, just do things my way! :)
Originally posted by Lye-El
LA's High? You don't care for fighters either? Don't forget the Run 90s.
I don’t think I need to go to the score pages to prove that the LA’s get a lot more use than the 190’s. This is hardly “190’s High,” although you rarely see a 190 that isn’t high, that isn’t either running or getting gang banged.
I am not sure how you managed to extrapolate from my posts that I do not like fighters. I have stated over and over that I like furballing. Since the inferences reached by your deductive reasoning appear to sometimes be deficit, please allow me to be a bit pedantic.
By furballing most of us mean flying fighter against fighter. I have stated repeatedly that I like furballing. Therefore, but deductive reasoning, I would extrapolate thusly:
A: Furballing means flying fighters.
B: FokerFoder likes to fly in furballs
Ergo: FokerFoder must like fighters.
However, you appear to have reasoned thusly:
A: Furballing means flying fighters.
B: FokerFoder likes to fly in furballs
Ergo: FokerFoder doesn’t care for fighters.
Now, which do you think is the more logical conclusion? Or do I need to apply the laws of logic more concisely?
You seem like a nice guy :) If you need help with analytical thought, I would be willing to point you toward some resources.
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Originally posted by lazs2
filth... of course it is easy (the game). That is why those who have done it for a long time eventually just look for good furballs..
Between AW and AH I've been playing for 8 years
Guess I havent been doing it for a "long time" yet
Curious. Just how long is a "long time"?
Just so I know when I get there
;)
Actually I enjoy all aspects of the game. including occasionally a furball.
I just dont enjoy a steady diet of it for reasons I've mentioned in a previous post.
Buyt thats why I like this game so much. I can play any way I like as the mood hits me. And I dont have to look for a different game when my mood changes as for what I feel like doing.
Its all right here.
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Im only 2 yrs ahead of ya DRED. I started AW in 96. AW wasn t as wobbly, but atleast you had to gain the enemy's six to get a shot. Each game is challenging in its own way.
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Lamb Chops.... Thats all I have to say....... Lamb Chops :p
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Originally posted by lazs2
beet clamors on about how it is unrealistic to hit something at 800 yards.. it was done tho and by guys a lot more stressed and with about 1,000 less hours practice than we have at doing what we do...
I didn't say it was impossible to "hit" something at 800 yards; - our own D Bader got a 109 smoking at that range once, much to his own surprise and that of his wingmen. I said that shooting a guy's wing off from 800 yards didn't happen in WW2. Two words - Bullet Dispersion. At 800 yards the rounds would be dispersed over too wide an area to cause enough damage to sheer a wing off. A cannon round might make a mess, but from what I've read, those didn't fly too well, and their trajectory suffered long before 800 yards. Why else do you think Hartmann got so close to the bogey? Oh wait, I was speaking about realism. Please forgive me. Of course, those 800yd shots should be allowed in a gamers' paradise because it's...... "more fun". :huh:confused:
I agree with what others have said about the DA being tailor made for furball use. AKFF has tried to deflect such claims by saying that in the DA you need a clearance to engage another plane, but he's being obtuse. Besides, on one memorable occasion when I shot one of the furballers when he was preoccupied with another bogey, he whined like an old Ford Anglia in reverse gear. The best (indeed the only) answer I've ever had as to why the FBs won't go to the DA is... "we've told you before - it's all in an earlier thread".
:rolleyes:
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Thank you shubie for proving my point... We have fought in the arena over the years. I pick you because I have never (or don't recall) run into these other players "who love the variety and the occassional furball" sooooo... I will use you with your indulgence.
You claim to have "been there and done that" with furballs. You are exactly the kind of guy who I am talking about. To me... and I not in the least bit good at this... a sorta... just learning to furball kind of guy...
you are like a baby bird fluttering about in a furball.. even in a spit five against inferior planes you are outturned and out fought and don't seem to be aware of what is around you. My point remains.. the reason you guys don't like furballs is because you just aren't good at em..
as for sprots comparrissons... better to compare watching a marthon with 40 comercials to shooting skeet than the running of one and sitting in a duck blind..
so what is wrong with a furball island in every map.... a simple look at what is going on in the maps will tell anyone... the furballers must be forced to play with the strat guys or no one will play with them. If everyone is playing for "strat" then why are none of the fields where only bombers hit being defended? why are there only two or three spots of action for any one country with 500 players on? You mouse wielders are fooling yourself.... the vast majority of players on are looking for action.
and beet... beet lecturing me about guns? this is amusing in the highest degree.. You gonna tell me about dispertion? as for knocking off a wing... Never happens for me. dispersion does not mean that rounds go off in wild patterns like a shotgun... it means that they go in the path that the gun is aimed at and if the guns are aimed slightly differently (more or less angle) they will travel in a relatively straight path with some bullet drop.
If you sit there like a dummy and they shoot enough rounds at you and use their rudder to change their 800 yard point... they will hit you.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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and beet... beet lecturing me about guns? this is amusing in the highest degree..
I dunno...have you actually flown a plane that fires 50 cal or 20mm (or higher) rounds? Does firing handguns at trash make you better qualified than Beet1e on the balistics of WW2 aircraft weapons?
At least Beet1e flies real planes....
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Obviously after 250+ posts there's not going to be a common middle found between the landgrabbers and furballers. So this is a moot point, don't ya think?
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Originally posted by lazs2
you are like a baby bird fluttering about in a furball.. even in a spit five against inferior planes you are outturned and out fought and don't seem to be aware of what is around you. My point remains.. the reason you guys don't like furballs is because you just aren't good at em..
Admitedly I am not good at furballing and I do not care about becoming a good furballer. Big deal. Looks like a swarm of buffalo gnats to me.
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thunder... that is my point... it is sour grapes... "I'm not good at it so it is senseless"
see what we are getting at?
Let me just tell you that to survive and get kills in that "swarm of knats" is the biggest strain on your abilities and SA and is the most fun per minute you can have in this game.... If you die before you get to participate it is addmittedly not very fun but...
I think most of us furballers just got angry and determined... we died hundreds of times and just took it till we got better... and we did get better... I see some of the new guys going through this all the time. Even when you get really good (I am not) there is an infinite amount of variables in every furball. Every furball is a new experiance... try to see it from that standpoint...
doing nothing for 20 minutes or more at a time kinda pales after you get a little skill in the ol furball. Chatting about your uncles new bike or klinton or whatever pales compared to hearing 5 six calls and all the chatter about "watch him" "lala on you break left" "watch the spit" "got him!" "i'm hit" etc.. in rapid fire.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by lazs2
doing nothing for 20 minutes or more at a time kinda pales after you get a little skill in the ol furball. Chatting about your uncles new bike or klinton or whatever pales compared to hearing 5 six calls and all the chatter about "watch him" "lala on you break left" "watch the spit" "got him!" "i'm hit" etc.. in rapid fire.
Amen to that. I'm at 14 kills per hour right now and it's pretty fun. Most fun when fur'in with squaddies. Still boring at times. Anything under 9-10 k/p/h would have to suck. I figure I'm getting the most bang for my buck. YMMV. ;)
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awwwwwwww sheep pellets.:o
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Originally posted by lazs2
and beet... beet lecturing me about guns? this is amusing in the highest degree.. You gonna tell me about dispertion? as for knocking off a wing... Never happens for me. dispersion does not mean that rounds go off in wild patterns like a shotgun... it means that they go in the path that the gun is aimed at and if the guns are aimed slightly differently (more or less angle) they will travel in a relatively straight path with some bullet drop.
Lazs,
You're not the only gun expert in the universe, and I have talked to some of the others. I was quoting from guys who know about how RL gunnery would have been in WW2. True, you know more than I do about guns, but I know more than you do about Math(s). And I see that a lesson is in order.
Did you know, Lazs, that if you were landing hits on a target 800 yards away and at the same height, that if you then increased your aircraft's attitude to a pitch of 1° above horizontal, your rounds would pass more than forty feet above the target? What was the maximum thickness of the wing of a WW2 fighter plane? I'm guessing, but let's say it was about 6 inches. At 800yds, assuming your rounds flew in a "laser" stream as described in your post as quoted above^, your pitch angle would have to be accurate to within 0.012°. Deviate your pitch angle by more than that, and the rounds would miss.
Could the WW2 pilots fly and aim accurately to within ~a hundredth of a degree, not forgetting the environmental factors of wind and turbulence? Anyone who believes they could can kiss my arse. Of course they couldn't, and that's why dispersion was built in - to give the pilots a chance of hitting something - and that's why at 800yds the rounds would be dispersed over such a large area that only odd pings would be possible, not the AH1 gamer dork laser beam.
Don't believe that a 1° pitch change would cause that 40ft error? Well here's the proof. I've drawn a little diagram for you. It's not to scale, but it's good enough. Your plane is at A, the bogey is at B. Raising the nose by only 1° would cause your rounds to fly through C, more than 40 feet above the bogey, the distance denoted by line BC.
Oh by the way, the trig laws state that Tan(A) = BC/AB, therefore BC = AB multiplied by Tan(A).
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/lazmath.jpg)
If you would actually spend more time trying to understand the scenario being discussed, instead of drawing on your experiences from gamer dork utopia, you would realise that it would be quite impossible to inflict catastrophic damage to a bogey 800 yards distant in a controlled and systematic fashion - the sort of thing we'd see on a daily basis in AH1 and early versions of WB. You had to get much, much closer. Granted, the odd stray round might end up plinking the wing. Could the wing of a 190 be sheared off by a single .50cal round? Erm... don't think so.
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Originally posted by lazs2
I think most of us furballers just got angry and determined... we died hundreds of times and just took it till we got better... and we did get better...
...and my £ says you still could not stop Rshubert's invasion, even if he told you where and when it was going to be.
WW2 fighter pilots that can't defend against an incoming invasion? About as much use as a chocolate teapot.
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Originally posted by DipStick
Amen to that. I'm at 14 kills per hour right now and it's pretty fun. Most fun when fur'in with squaddies. Still boring at times. Anything under 9-10 k/p/h would have to suck. I figure I'm getting the most bang for my buck. YMMV. ;)
but for people who spend over 20 hours a month and sometimes alot more, surely variety is the spice of life?
the mad furballs are one of the wildest rushes AH can offer. but for instance; last week late night only about 80 people online. four of our squad lift some FW190 A8s in formation and lift to deffend a large darbar in the HQ sector. we troll around for 30 mins chasing stratosphere b24s and co-ordinating a search over the 4 sectors without dot dar. 20 mins later and there is no buffs but a darbar still showing at least one plane. we hunt for another 13 mins then suddenly the 'off the map' arrow blinks on for a few seconds. it was reported and 2 of us flew 6 sectors or so to stop the only retreat while the other two hemmed him in. after about 55mins of chasing imagination around, some of us alone for up to 30 mins, we all four convened and surrounded a 190D9 at 8k about half a sector from their base. we ganged him to pieces, then hit the base for a few minutes before tearing 2 sectors home with 3 or 4 kills for no deaths between us.
that is also a way of playing aside from furballs. and there are many more.
playing for k/p/h ratio almost sound perversly score whorish even though thats a total contradiction of what a furball is of course. :huh
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beet... If I couldn't hold the sights of a gun in allignment of more than an inch off there would be no point in shooting anything... mostly the missalignment of sights is in the order of what the eye can distinguish... for people with very good eyesight (like fighter pilots) that is a very few thousands of an inch... also... you are firing 500-1000 rounds per minute out of every gun..... if you have 4 or six guns all firing and staying within a few thousands of an inch in the sights and... you are using tracers besides... It is not hard to hit something at 800 yards out. While our gun platform is much steadier... the gunnery and dispertion itself is not that different. We have thousands of hours at it..
lets say that a good WWII pilot could get hits at 300-400 yards in the heat of battle with relatively few hours of gunnery practice.... hell... that is about the convergence most pilots set their guns for right?
What would be so difficult to believe that people under no stress with hundreds of times more practice.... could not double that figure? in the arena... 90% of the time you are safe if someone is firing at you from anything more than 400 yards away.... If you flop around... they don't even hit you with a full ammo load.
as for shubie.... "stop his invasion"?? why would I? I can't think of anything more boring to do.... if he happens to be around me tho.... even in a superior plane with an e advantage... he will simply die.
sooo... what you are saying is that I can't stop his invasion even tho he lacks skill... I would agree. the game is set up to give him an unfair advantage... his lack of skill does not prevent him from having an impact far greater than is fair.
To some extent... this is necessary and I admit this... it is necessary so that newbies can get some pleasure from the game and feel they accomplished something...
The is no excuse for the older guys to do it tho other than... well.. the obvious reasons.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by lazs2
To some extent... this is necessary and I admit this... it is necessary so that newbies can get some pleasure from the game and feel they accomplished something...
Sounds like you're talking about 800yd blow-your-wing-off gunnery.
Read my post again - skip the more difficult bits. I still maintain that - No pilot could pitch his plane accurately to within 0.012°
- That's the reason dispersion was built in;
- At 800yds the rounds would be dispersed over such a wide area that only the odd lucky ping would be possible.
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Originally posted by mechanic
four of our squad lift some FW190 A8s in formation and lift to deffend a large darbar in the HQ sector. we troll around for 30 mins chasing stratosphere b24s and co-ordinating a search over the 4 sectors without dot dar. 20 mins later and there is no buffs but a darbar still showing at least one plane. we hunt for another 13 mins then suddenly the 'off the map' arrow blinks on for a few seconds. it was reported and 2 of us flew 6 sectors or so to stop the only retreat while the other two hemmed him in. after about 55mins of chasing imagination around, some of us alone for up to 30 mins, we all four convened and surrounded a 190D9 at 8k about half a sector from their base. we ganged him to pieces, then hit the base for a few minutes before tearing 2 sectors home with 3 or 4 kills for no deaths between us.
Just as soon take a real azzwhoppin'. Bore me to tears... how can you people do that?
Beet still arguing about a game you haven't even played in a year or more... get a life.
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DS - having a discussion about gunnery. Glad you took me off ignore. :p:)
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Originally posted by PK1Mw
Obviously after 250+ posts there's not going to be a common middle found between the landgrabbers and furballers. So this is a moot point, don't ya think?
*'s that by another 2500+ threads.
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Originally posted by lazs2
beet... If I couldn't hold the sights of a gun in allignment of more than an inch off there would be no point in shooting anything... mostly the missalignment of sights is in the order of what the eye can distinguish... for people with very good eyesight (like fighter pilots) that is a very few thousands of an inch... also... you are firing 500-1000 rounds per minute out of every gun..... if you have 4 or six guns all firing and staying within a few thousands of an inch in the sights and... you are using tracers besides... It is not hard to hit something at 800 yards out. While our gun platform is much steadier... the gunnery and dispertion itself is not that different. We have thousands of hours at it..
...er...the problem with this is that you are assuming perfect accuracy from each of your weapons. Even your bolt-action deer rifle can't ordinarily consistently fire minute-of-angle groups. A recoil-operated .50, with the barrel moving back and forth on each shot, isn't going to come near to this consistency. That's the principal reason for the huge dispersion at long ranges. You can mount the gun in concrete, and it still won't shoot to the same point of impact with each shot. Mount it in the flexible wing of an airplane, bolted to a couple of pieces of aluminum, and the accuracy will be worse.
Widewing and Tony have both posted dispersion figures for these guns. At 800 yards range they are huge.
- oldman
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Originally posted by beet1e
...and my £ says you still could not stop Rshubert's invasion, even if he told you where and when it was going to be.
WW2 fighter pilots that can't defend against an incoming invasion? About as much use as a chocolate teapot.
I guess my 1st post was missed re: Rshuberts statment.
He DID indeed set up a "stop my hoard, I dare you" challenge, and was successful the 1st time he did it vs. Charon, and all that Charon could group together. (was only like 5-10 pilots, and they were overwhelmed)
THEN I formed the famous
Stopping
Hoards
by
Engaging
Enemy
Pilots
S.H.E.E.P. movement, and tossed down the gauntlet to rshubert.
Originally posted by WMLute
rshubert, from reading your posts, your idea of "opposed" were just a couple guys outnumbered 10 to 1. Hope you understand just how "silly" you sound. Ok.... I wasn't party to your last "I gonna attack this field with HUGE #'s, try and stop me", but I would like to be party to the next. Let me know when ya' gonna do it.
Heck, bring your 40, I'll bring 20 (or less)... you not getin' that base. SOME of us know how to stop hordes. Some don't. SOME of us understand just how simple it is to get rid of the mass swarms of noobs. (hint, either kill 'em, or draw it out. they got 2min attentions spans and will go elsewhere)
Sooo... let's try it again shall we? Let me know when so I can get my S.H.E.E.P. alert out, rally a few boys, and play "smack the dweeb" for a bit o' light amusment.
here was the result
Originally posted by rshubert
Finally, somebody put their money where their mouth is! We took not one single base tonight, but we had some great fun.
We had somewhere around 20 pilots in the S.H.E.E.P. anti-hoard group, and stopped the 40-50 pilot Hoard cold.
So not only is it do-able, we did it.
(edit. re-reading that anti-hoard post really made me shudder. MAN I was an idiot back then. to all who put up with my drivel)
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certainly.. you would not expect that each and every round of the 40- 80 rounds going out to the target every second would be aimed perfectly... One would expect about the same results as we get in the game... some pings..... of course...you would not want even one .50 or 20 mm hitting the engine tho... it would smash right through the block at that range.. with water cooled engines we would get a dramatic destruction of the powerplant... the pilot would bail.
As for mounting a 50 in concrete and not getting good results from a .50... sorry, you are wrong.. several people mounted scopes on ma dueces in WWII and korea and were hitting things smaller than ac at 2,000 yards... modern .50 sniper rifles prove the destructive power and accuracy of the round at more than a mile.
I am no rifle shot but even with open sights I could hit something as big as an ac at 800 yards with a .50... it is routine for ma duece gunners to turn a target as small as a jeep into rubble at distances longer than that on full auto using the most rudementary of sights and walking in the rounds...
still... it remains... even in the war... people were killing planes from 800 yards or farther and... in the game... we rarely do. even when the guy is not doing anything but flying straight and level.
but... doing math like beet does... it would be impossible for us to hit 400 yard targets with a hunting rifle.
plane shake and such make it harder of course.... it may take a hundred or more bullets to get a few good hits.... that is about how it happens in the game.
still... all will agree that it is possible and even probable. The concessions that are offered to fluffs and gv's are not even in the same realm.... Please explain how it is possible for one guy to crew three fluffs and operate all the guns at the same time for instance...
where is the math on that one?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Widewing and Tony have both posted dispersion figures for these guns. At 800 yards range they are huge.
I'd be interested to know how huge the dispersion would be, so that I could work out the maximum spread angle, and ascertain the probability of a round finding the target at a range of 800yds. Do you have any links? people were killing planes from 800 yards or farther
doubtful, on a regular basis. I'm not disputing the 1-hit lucky pings, I'm talking about shearing wings off at 800yds as a matter of routine. When I have those dispersion links, I'll be able to work out the percentage of rounds that would find the target in the 800yd scenario. I am no rifle shot but even with open sights I could hit something as big as an ac at 800 yards with a .50...
Well duh! You're talking about standing still with a rifle, firing at a stationary target. Obviously a weapon like that would not have dispersion built into it. Machine guns on WW2 fighter planes clearly did, for the reasons I have given.
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:lol
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Originally posted by lazs2
thunder... that is my point... it is sour grapes... "I'm not good at it so it is senseless"
see what we are getting at?
Let me just tell you that to survive and get kills in that "swarm of knats" is the biggest strain on your abilities and SA and is the most fun per minute you can have in this game.... If you die before you get to participate it is addmittedly not very fun but...
I think most of us furballers just got angry and determined... we died hundreds of times and just took it till we got better... and we did get better... I see some of the new guys going through this all the time. Even when you get really good (I am not) there is an infinite amount of variables in every furball. Every furball is a new experiance... try to see it from that standpoint...
doing nothing for 20 minutes or more at a time kinda pales after you get a little skill in the ol furball. Chatting about your uncles new bike or klinton or whatever pales compared to hearing 5 six calls and all the chatter about "watch him" "lala on you break left" "watch the spit" "got him!" "i'm hit" etc.. in rapid fire.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Nope, lazs, YOU are still missing the point. We don't think that it's the be-all and end-all of our AH experience, therefore WE DON'T TAKE THE TIME TO GET GOOD AT IT.
Some of your furballsy friends complain that they "need" bases close together because of their limited time to play, right? Well, those of us that enjoy more than one aspect of the AH experience also have limited time. Since we spend some of our time doing other stuff, we don't get the furball time you do, and so you have more experience, and are therefore better at furballing than we are.
If that makes you feel good, I am glad. Now go back to your corner and SIT DOWN.
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Originally posted by WMLute
So not only is it do-able, we did it.
(
Yes, you did! And a good time was had by all! And you made us revisit our tactics when taking heavily defended fields.
Sometimes, when you go bear hunting, the bear wins.
:)
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zOMFG shubert your location is teh crazy!!!11eoneoneone!111
OMFG QUAH!!!!WOOOOOOWOOOOO!!!!
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no shubie... you are missing the point... most of you strat girls spend more time playing than anyone.... it is just that you waste your time.
Either out of fear of looking bad or because you can't afford a joystick or lack of hand eye coordination or maybe just lazy with no will... who knows? you spend countless hours... doing nothing but....
chatting..
if you spent half as much time fighting other players as you do sneaking up on toolsheds and chatting... you would be a decent fight in the ma.
And beet... I may not be able to aim an mp5 (9mm sub gun) and hit a man sized target at 300 yards in semi auto but... I bet I could hit it with a 75 round drum shooting from the hip on full auto... especially with tracers.
you admit that guys did hit targets at 800 yards and further... you admit that they could hit em pretty regular at 3 or 400... you admit we have thousands of more hours practice and no real stress... why is it hard to believe we might get pings a lot of the time out to 800 yards?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by lazs2
I bet I could hit it with a 75 round drum shooting from the hip on full auto... especially with tracers.
I'd take that bet...full auto at 300 yards? If you didn't hit with the first shot, you wouldn't hit at all.
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You couldn't walk the rounds in? in 75 rounds with a wussie recoiling 9 mm?
Never actually tried it but did it easy enough at 100 yards. and once on... was easy to stay on. that was with a 30 round stick too. I was surprised that the cops there couldn't do it tho.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by lazs2
you admit that guys did hit targets at 800 yards and further... you admit that they could hit em pretty regular at 3 or 400... you admit we have thousands of more hours practice and no real stress... why is it hard to believe we might get pings a lot of the time out to 800 yards?
Most of the WW2 pilots made no attempt to get hits at 800 yards. Why? Because they knew they'd be wasting their ammo. As OldMan has tried to explain, the dispersion at such a range would be absolutely huge. And cannon rounds simply would not fly that far. .50 cals were better.
Remember how the gunnery was in WB 2.7x? You had to close to 300 yards or less, or else you were simply wasting your ammo - whatever the plane or ammo type.
I've just scanned through Gabreski's book, and found a couple of instances where he got kills at 300-400yds. Remember, the fact that he got hits at all was, as with any other pilot, because dispersion was built into the 8x.50cals so that he wouldn't have to aim his plane to within fractions of a degree, as explained in my previous posts. But that same dispersion at 800yds would result in an overall target area so large that only lucky pings would hit the target - not enough to bring it down.
Gabreski also mentions how some of his bogeys broke up after they'd been "done", with fragments from those doomed planes almost hitting Gabby's P47. Surely you can tell from that how close he was. Erich Hartmann liked to get so close to his quarry that it filled his windscreen.
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Originally posted by beet1e
I'd be interested to know how huge the dispersion would be, so that I could work out the maximum spread angle, and ascertain the probability of a round finding the target at a range of 800yds. Do you have any links?
These are the two threads I was thinking about. It was Widewing and Batz, not Widewing and Tony.
The first thread: http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=75835&referrerid=4533
The thread that has the actual USAAF test results: http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=106275&referrerid=4533
- oldman
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...and Lazs, one other thing. I've just done some more calculations, and can tell you that doubling the range of the target results in a dispersion pattern four times larger. At 200yds, your dispersion pattern would be focused in a reasonably small area. But at 800yds, that dispersion pattern would in theory be 16 times larger. I say "in theory" because of course at such a long range, loss of kinetic energy and bullet drop would come into play. I'd say that at 800yds, you'd be lucky to get one twentieth as many rounds on target as you could at 200yds, and even then their energy would be much less.
Is it finally becoming clear why 800yds wing shear offs are total BS? And forget the comparison where you're in a firing range - with your rifle barrel resting on sandbags as you take careful aim? Apples and oranges.
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Originally posted by DipStick
Just as soon take a real azzwhoppin'. Bore me to tears... how can you people do that?
Beet still arguing about a game you haven't even played in a year or more... get a life.
because i enjoy th fantasy that i am flying with a squad in ww2.
imagination is a gift dip, dont worry if you are a plain person you wont get it.
i mean come on, its not like you're even much of a threat to anyone in a furball, try a different game for a few hours, see d you have fun.
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Originally posted by mechanic
because i enjoy th fantasy that i am flying with a squad in ww2.
imagination is a gift dip, dont worry if you are a plain person you wont get it.
i mean come on, its not like you're even much of a threat to anyone in a furball, try a different game for a few hours, see d you have fun.
LoL, nice bait!
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Originally posted by mechanic
because i enjoy th fantasy that i am flying with a squad in ww2.
imagination is a gift dip, dont worry if you are a plain person you wont get it.
i mean come on, its not like you're even much of a threat to anyone in a furball, try a different game for a few hours, see d you have fun.
I 'imagine' you're dumber than you look but carry on or I'll have to puffy your eye!
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Originally posted by DipStick
I 'imagine' you're dumber than you look but carry on or I'll have to puffy your eye!
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :cry
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Sheese........(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/spezial/Sarge/Whatever_anim.gif)
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beet... I am sorry that when you made some sissy little B&Z kick at someone they managed to get a shot off at your fleeing plane at what looked like 800 yards to you.... I would suggest that you move around a little. I have seen plenty of guys here empty their ammo loads at me at ranges from 600 to 200 without ever getting so much as a ping.
your math example is for 200 yard convergence... most pilots used the more common 400 yard... here... people often use 500 600 or more. bullet drop is easy to figure also... you have a rangefinder of sorts right on your sight.... if you bother to study the balistics of your guns or... simply watch the tracers... you can easily compensate for bullet drop.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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you b aby K ids are so friendly too others.
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See Rule #4
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Awwwww Casper. I had high hopes for you. :(
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Awwwww Casper. I had high hopes for you.
Hopes for what?
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Originally posted by lazs2
your math example is for 200 yard convergence... most pilots used the more common 400 yard... here... people often use 500 600 or more. bullet drop is easy to figure also... you have a rangefinder of sorts right on your sight.... if you bother to study the balistics of your guns or... simply watch the tracers...
Still doesn't alter the maths, Lazs. Whatever the spread angle created by dispersion, at 400 yds the dispersion pattern will be four times bigger than it would be at 200yds. And at 800yds it would be four times bigger than at 400yds. So for every ~16 rounds you could expect to land on target at 200yds, you'll only land one on target at 800yds, no matter how good a shot you are. And that's assuming your rounds would fly that far, and would have sufficient kinetic energy left to do damage. I'm talking about a real world scenario here, using real mathematical formulae. I don't know (or care) how it is in Gamer Dork Utopia, where they clamour to get rid of oil on the windscreen.
:rofl
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Hoped you weren't dumber than a box of rocks.... my mistake.
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No problem. Even the best make mistakes.
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See Rule #4
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bat.. seriously..
where did you get "puff your eye" from?
:rofl
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who cares where i got it from have you ever had someone puff your eye up? so it swells up and you cant see. i have.
a decent shot to the eye on anyone who isnt fit and toned will instantly produce swelling to the point of blindness. it is without a doubt the most vulnerable weakness for any non professional brawler.
but i'm not a brawler or a hard man. i still would give someone all i've got if they ask for it.
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how old are you?
"I'LL PUFFY YOUR EYE" -> :huh !!!!!!
sounds like something from the 1930's ;) :D
"stand back chaps! i'm going to give this man a good thrashing and puffy his eye!"
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Originally posted by mechanic
i still would give someone all i've got if they ask for it.
gimme all your money, punk.
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hey it was just a few words to a means man, I mean, its obvious some of the BKs are now idolising this 'puffy your eye' thing, and i thank you for your compliment but its got to stop.
and its 'puff your eye up'
and yes furball, you can have all my money. I'll let you know when i earn it.
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chill out bat, im only joking with you :)
it is funny, and as a fellow brit i can honestly say i have never heard that saying.
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dont tell me to chill out you little scamp! I'll puff your eye up, i tell ya!
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i have a cunning protection plan..
:cool:
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i really dont want to hear about any more of your stunning cun...er...clever tricks.
back to you room!
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Originally posted by Casper1
(http://holtz.org/Library/Images/Novelty/arguing%20on%20internet.jpg)
dumbest thing on this thread
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Originally posted by mechanic
I mean, its obvious some of the BKs are now idolising this 'puffy your eye' thing, and i thank you for your compliment but its got to stop.
and its 'puff your eye up'
Actually it is the queerest thing I think i've ever heard come from anyone whilst trying to trash talk on the intardnet.
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Originally posted by Slash27
dumbest thing on this thread
Why thank you! I do what I can to keep you Intardnet arguing types happy! :aok
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Where was I arguing?
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Originally posted by Slash27
Where was I arguing?
Sorry, maybe I should have said "arguing and insulting types".
My bad. Good catch.
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Originally posted by Casper1
Sorry, maybe I should have said "arguing and insulting types".
My bad. Good catch.
moron.
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Originally posted by DipStick
moron.
UGLY.......
:D :noid
ohh nevermind.. :aok :aok
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Originally posted by DipStick
moron.
Your breath stinks !
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So the UKNIGHTED supports making fun of physically challenged children?
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Originally posted by Casper1
Everyone bow to the almighty lasz, the ultimate Intardnet arguer...
(http://holtz.org/Library/Images/Novelty/arguing%20on%20internet.jpg)
Unreal, we take to insulting those who face challenges that most of us cannot even imagine.
If HT doesn't delete this for being improper, I will be quite dissapointed.
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Originally posted by DipStick
So the UKNIGHTED supports making fun of physically challenged children?
despite its bad taste, this is not the first time this exact picture has come up.
Infact the last person to post it was a BK i think.
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Originally posted by DipStick
So the UKNIGHTED supports making fun of physically challenged children?
What does it matter? This isn't real. And if you are getting all worked up over things that happen on this bulletin board, you need a vacation. I mean, seriously, this is just a fantasy world and the persona here has nothing to do with what people really think feel or are like. Click on the x and it will all go away, along with us....
At least, that is the philosophy that has so recently and elequently been expoused by members of the BKs.
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The question stands.
Bat you know I've always been against this crap. No need to whine about BKs because I asked a question.
blammo I don't know you nor do I care to.
PS... nothing gets me "worked up". It's just a question (that still remains unanswered).
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agaisnt what crap? having a laugh at someone else's expence?
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Get over it already, folks. That was weeks ago, and some of you are still acting like you were left at the altar.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by DipStick &
blammo I don't know you nor do I care to.
I'm crushed.....
:rofl
:rofl
:rofl
:rofl
:rofl
:rofl
:rofl
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Making fun of mentally/physically handicapped kids by posting pictures of them with assinine captions in order for the poster to "think" he's cool or to make himself appear "cool" to others.
Comprende'?
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Get over it already, folks. That was weeks ago, and some of you are still acting like you were left at the altar.
-- Todd/Leviathn
we'll take as long as we like to remember it if you dont mind. it makes it fun when your suboardinates trip themselves up all over your well laid ideals.
dip stop posting and go to the DA now, your gunna put on wieght just sitting there.
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Originally posted by DipStick
Making fun of mentally/physically handicapped kids by posting pictures of them with assinine captions in order for the poster to "think" he's cool or to make himself appear "cool" to others.
Comprende'?
By the way, I did not think the picture was funny, but...
What you are saying is there is a line of good taste that should not be crossed even in this fantasy world forum and game, is that correct?
Just askin...
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Batfink, much to my chagrin I have to agree with Morpheus that you are hopeless. Many have gotten over far worse in far less time. That you continue to dwell on it, and the fact that you are now willing to stoop far beneath those who slighted you to assuage your bruised ego, speak poorly of you.
Oh, well. Have at it then, wee-skinned one. :aok
-- Todd/Leviathn
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tod... you are wrong on this... what we did was unconsionable and...
I hope that batfink is bothered by it for the rest of his life just to spite you and teach you a lesson.
his squeeeels of anguish are music to my ears... even in that funny accent.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Wow I cant believe this thread is still active! Its almost become a porta- potty...folks breeze thru, drop a load, and move on, daily.
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Originally posted by lazs2
his squeeeels of anguish are music to my ears... even in that funny accent.
Now that's funny :lol :lol :lol
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Originally posted by FiLtH
Its almost become a porta- potty...folks breeze thru, drop a load, and move on, daily.
Hehehe. Nice Filth. ;)
blammo . reading is phundamental. have you ever read something that said i think this is a "fantasy world forum and game"?
Didn't think so.
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Originally posted by mechanic
dip stop posting and go to the DA now, your gunna put on wieght just sitting there.
It's called "being bored at work". Some of us have to work for a living... go figure.
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Originally posted by mechanic
we'll take as long as we like to remember it if you dont mind. it makes it fun when your suboardinates trip themselves up all over your well laid ideals.
dip stop posting and go to the DA now, your gunna put on wieght just sitting there.
This cracks me up.. Well laid ideals? Dont you mean delusions? Just because you think its right in your twisted LSD ladened mind doesnt mean its the majority. I dont know what you're thinking. Because you say you just trolled someone or "got em" doesnt mean you actually did.
To me, for some reason I dont think melting down upon us is all that fun for you. Just as you did on my board, and just as you've done in the past to the staff at HTC. For the same reasons you were banned here and from the game before, you'll be banned once again. Its only a matter of time, people like you are ticking time bombs. They're set to go off, and its only a matter of time.
Edit: The thing that gets you the most peeved is the fact that you really genuinly thought I was kicked out of the Blue Knights. You praised Levi for his actions while laughing at me saying "I told you so you potato peeler". When it all blew up and came back to bite you, it was more than you could take. Understandably so, after all this game does mean so much to your tiny existence . That being said, you really do need to move on with your life.
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This thread isn't locked yet?????
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tick tock.. TICK TOCK.. TICK TOCK.. TICK TOCK.. :cool:
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Why should it be locked?
Because it expresses different views from different sides of the game?
Disagreements?
I dont get it.
Since when was a dispute so bad?
Sad if it does get locked.
Nothings more silly when people go crying to skuzzy because a thread they dont like or agree with is still open.
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Originally posted by DipStick
blammo . reading is phundamental. have you ever read something that said i think this is a "fantasy world forum and game"?
So, you're not going to answer the question?
Didn't think so :aok
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I started this thread so each side could vent their frustrations in a nice and timely mannor.
Carry On
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Originally posted by Morpheus
Why should it be locked?
Because it expresses different views from different sides of the game?
Disagreements?
I dont get it.
Since when was a dispute so bad?
Sad if it does get locked.
Nothings more silly when people go crying to skuzzy because a thread they dont like or agree with is still open.
I agree with Morpheus on this....at least to this point and not sure I will ever again. At this point, while it is gearing up to be locked, it hasn't quite crossed that line.
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Originally posted by Blammo
What does it matter? This isn't real. And if you are getting all worked up over things that happen on this bulletin board, you need a vacation. I mean, seriously, this is just a fantasy world and the persona here has nothing to do with what people really think feel or are like. Click on the x and it will all go away, along with us....
At least, that is the philosophy that has so recently and elequently been expoused by members of the BKs.
You are right to a point. But there is a line that all but a few of us, haven't crossed. This is a game and "SuperDud" is just a character. The BKs are just a pretend airplane squad, along with everyone else. Making fun of any of those is fine. If you make myself or the BKs look foolish, I garuntee you 100% we'd have a good laugh at it. It's meaningless, and nothing is lost.
However when you start making fun of real life situations, it ceases to be humorous. There's been a lot of tasteless attacks on both sides that's just plain childish.
So once again I will post this to try to clear up how I, and many others I know view things:
There's a difference between...
A) An internet squad faking a breaking up for a laugh. Making someones persona dumb on these boards or the game.
B) Someone on here needing a place to stay for a few days and you can help. Also making fun of the disabled.
"A" is what I perceive as staying on this board/game. It's meaningless and not worthy to get upset or have any impact on you whatsoever. If I bite the hook and get called on it, I laugh, it's funny.
"B" is a serious RL matter that shouldn't be joked about. If I have no way of really helping I'll wish them luck, etc and carry on. If I could help, I would.
I just feel some people take the goofy stuff on this board way to serious. True neither option A or B are in good taste if you are on the short end of the stick. But A shouldn't really effect you in anyway. It has no real meaning to it.
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Well said, SuperDud...and a thoroughly reasonable response.
I suppose that my point is we are talking about sensibilities here. Not everyones sensibilities is the same. I found that picture offensive and would not have posted it myself. However, everyone's sensibilities are different and allowances need to be made for that.
For instance, as you brought up, some people too very real office to the BKs troll about the squad breaking up. You can say, imaginary squad, imaginary break up, imaginary whatever, but some people took very real offense at having their very real emotions played with. Do they need to get over it? Not for me to say. People here, for the most part, care about other people here and to have that taken for granted is a callous act.
Put it this way: every squad I have been a part of I was friends with the guys in it. If something happened to tick people off so bad that they left it generally meant the friendship was over or in very bad shape. That means something to me. When I saw the BKs were in what appeared to be trouble, I empathized and felt bad that a group of guys that had their own flair and nigh legendary status, and were apparently friends, were falling on hard times. Real feelings about what was being presented as a real falling out.
So, you can say one is fantasy and one is real world, but that's not the point. The point is sensibilities. You want to draw the line here because you are uncomfortable going farther. Others would have drawn the line earlier. Still others would never draw the line.
I know this is likely to be falling on deaf ears, so, I'll move along.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Batfink, much to my chagrin I have to agree with Morpheus that you are hopeless. Many have gotten over far worse in far less time. That you continue to dwell on it, and the fact that you are now willing to stoop far beneath those who slighted you to assuage your bruised ego, speak poorly of you.
Oh, well. Have at it then, wee-skinned one. :aok
-- Todd/Leviathn
:D
is that a rule#4 is see, from the leviathn himself? i feel quite honoured!
trust me, im about as bothered by it as you. not very much but still remembering it.
have i really ever stooped so low?
just changed my 'cpid persona' to one more equal with yours. there was no point being sensible ever because it would always be made a joke of, so from now on i take great joy in seeing one of you made a fool by another member of the community. i wont name names but read the thread without bias and you will see.
had some great fights with a few BKs in the DA recently, S! to them.
to the ones who still crave jokes and ridicule on the BBs, i say, game on!
:aok
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Originally posted by DipStick
It's called "being bored at work". Some of us have to work for a living... go figure.
Tough job that working without working. :D
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Originally posted by mechanic
:D
is that a rule#4 is see, from the leviathn himself? i feel quite honoured!
trust me, im about as bothered by it as you. not very much but still remembering it.
have i really ever stooped so low?
just changed my 'cpid persona' to one more equal with yours. there was no point being sensible ever because it would always be made a joke of, so from now on i take great joy in seeing one of you made a fool by another member of the community. i wont name names but read the thread without bias and you will see.
had some great fights with a few BKs in the DA recently, S! to them.
to the ones who still crave jokes and ridicule on the BBs, i say, game on!
:aok
I dont see any "rule #4".
I do see the perfect difinition for an "Overly Sensitive Internet Tough Guy" though. And yup, its you. :aok
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Originally posted by Casper1
Everyone bow to the almighty lasz, the ultimate Intardnet arguer...
(http://holtz.org/Library/Images/Novelty/arguing%20on%20internet.jpg)
Now THIS was so BEYOND WRONG!
Casper1 where is your Mind and Heart at?
Mac
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Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
Unreal, we take to insulting those who face challenges that most of us cannot even imagine.
If HT doesn't delete this for being improper, I will be quite dissapointed.
INclude me to the list of the disappointed.
Mac
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Originally posted by DipStick
So the UKNIGHTED supports making fun of physically challenged children?
No, just think your breath stinks.
I Keed Keed
(https://www.cpyu.org/files/3D%20Reviews/Others/triumph2.jpg)
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I'm pretty sure I don't see a violation of Rule #4 there, Batfink. However, I do see a violation of Rule #6.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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I r teh Toolshedz PWNER!!
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
......ostensibily ad hoc fashion......
-- Todd/Leviathn
Those are impressive words that I do not comprehend :eek:
Dave
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Originally posted by Curval
and beet... beet lecturing me about guns? this is amusing in the highest degree..
I dunno...have you actually flown a plane that fires 50 cal or 20mm (or higher) rounds? Does firing handguns at trash make you better qualified than Beet1e on the balistics of WW2 aircraft weapons?
At least Beet1e flies real planes....
PWN!
Dave
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ah in that case my mind decievs me. but ill take the rule #6 and walk if thats ok.
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Is this thread going anywhere besides the look at me, I'm smarter than a sign.
and let know if I heard this right, it was Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah.
biggest box of TOOLS I've ever seen
new one BLAHQUAH
or QUAHBLAH
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biggest box of TOOLS I've ever seen
but yet you still respond.
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Sorry to interrupt this intardnet smackfest, but...
Lazs, I know you said this some time ago, and I didn't comment at the time.
Originally posted by lazs2
If all the fields were closer together.... you would see nothing but furballs.
This is precisely why you and fellow furballers wanted closer fields, and precisely why everyone else did not. You used to claim that there was "something for everyone" when the fields were pissing distance apart - glad you finally admitted that you were talking bollocks.
And now, back to the smackfest.
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bollocks is a gay word.
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Well, it seems that this community has some moral conscience. Wow. Took me by surprise.
I would like to saythat I did choose the version of that picture which you are all so disappointed with that was least inappropriate. There are much less-PC ones out there.
The argument the picture makes is in no way, from my view, poking fun at the challenged. It is poking fun at all of you who incessantly whine and complain and poke fun at others in order to 'be cool' (to quote Morph) on an Internet MESSAGE BOARD. It gets you no where, it does nothing for you.
Yes, I know Blue Knights, this is just a game. I agree with you. So dont start that argument...AGAIN.
But if its just a game, why do you all spend so much RL time here posting the best things your minds can conjure? Are you seriously stating that you guys enjoy spending alot of brain power and energy thinking of the best ways to "fish/troll"?
Enough with the holier than though attitude. I post a picture, some of you flip. How many times have any of you said "gay" for instance? That's not very nice either, so CHILL OUT. "Before you judge me, take a look at you - cant you find somethign better to do?" is a good Metallica lyric that comes to mind.
To close, anyone who wants to edit/delete my picture may, I have no issues with it. It was a little borderline in retrospect.
I apologize to any of the respected members for any anguish or insult I may have caused with the posting of a picture that was not meant to make fun of the mentally challenged.
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In regards to furballing, I see many people who may think they are furballing, just whizzing around fast, and higher than the fight. I see guys in SpitVs turning slow, and a Typh swoops in and kills his guy. To me that guy isnt part of that furball. Hes just an opportunistic player looking for an easy kill.
I see 109g10s come into the fight and do the standard go up like a rocket and rope till the cows come home. That isnt furballing.
And of course the (rare) LA7 come thru guns blazing for headons and exiting thru the other side. THAT isnt furballing.
To me, furballing has always been between planes of similar qualities, and made up of similar quantities, in a slow, twisting and turning mass, trying to clear your bud's six, while constantly turning to avoid someone getting on yours.
Many people who post here probably dont really like the furball for what it is, except that it provides them with targets to swoop in on. If I were a die-hard furballers, I'd dislike them as much as the toolshedders who bomb the hangers. Also we have a huge list of planes to chose from. Why just choose 2, the spitV for when you want to turnfight, and the typh,109g10,Tempest, or LA7 for when you want to stay fast. Try a higher ENY plane and try to survive against the masses. Its alot more fun.
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Beet... for someone as smart as you claim to be you sure have a hard time grasping simple concepts.... I say that the fields should be closer together.. I also say that I THINK that there would be nothing but furballs.... I also say that... putting the fields closer together would not hinder the fluffers and strat girls from doing what they do... they could simply take off one field further back to get organized or play in the stratosphere...
The difference is that... if given the opportunity... people will furball... the only way they do what you want is if they are forced too... Right now we are being forced to play your game... there is an unbalance. Maybe that is why so many are unhappy these days. No one would be forced to furball if the fields were closer together.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
"Lazs, I know you said this some time ago, and I didn't comment at the time.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by lazs2
If all the fields were closer together.... you would see nothing but furballs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is precisely why you and fellow furballers wanted closer fields, and precisely why everyone else did not. You used to claim that there was "something for everyone" when the fields were pissing distance apart - glad you finally admitted that you were talking bollocks.
And now, back to the smackfest."
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Originally posted by Casper1
blah blah..... The argument the picture makes is in no way, from my view, poking fun at the challenged.
Imagine you are the kid in the picture or like him and you saw it.
blah blah..... I apologize to any of the respected members for any anguish or insult I may have caused with the posting of a picture that was not meant to make fun of the mentally challenged.
Apology accepted. Thank you. >S
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and filth.... I agree... last night that is exactly what some squad with 4 aces was doing.... very unfun... they never got slow and allways stayed out of range if they could... if they got slow enough to catch or missjudged e so that they had to fight... they died.... no fun to fight... no fun to kill... not really a furball at all. If any countrymates were low... they would not try to help at all just sit in the cherry pick seat until the countryman was dead or about to be and then swoop down on the low e or busy attacker.... if their numbers dropped to less than about a 5/3 ratio or they were down on e enough that they were lower than a couple of edfenders they all blew the wistle and ran home...
never seen anything like it... was not real fun.... very low kill per hour. When they couldn't keep a conga line going enough to be high over the enemy field (pushed back some) they simple quit playing.
This was a lot of planes in an area but nothing like a furball. You are right... these guys are more disgusting than the strat girls.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by DipStick
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Casper1
blah blah..... The argument the picture makes is in no way, from my view, poking fun at the challenged.
Imagine you are the kid in the picture or like him and you saw it.
blah blah..... I apologize to any of the respected members for any anguish or insult I may have caused with the posting of a picture that was not meant to make fun of the mentally challenged.
Apology accepted. Thank you. >S
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did you see the piece of the sentence that said respected Dip?
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See Rule #4
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Originally posted by Casper1
Did you see the piece of the sentence that said respected Dip?
Gotta love those folks who respect a child based on their father...
Ah well Casper, you just dropped a few notches... :(
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Originally posted by lazs2
Beet... for someone as smart as you claim to be you sure have a hard time grasping simple concepts.... I say that the fields should be closer together.. I also say that I THINK that there would be nothing but furballs.... I also say that... putting the fields closer together would not hinder the fluffers and strat girls from doing what they do... they could simply take off one field further back to get organized or play in the stratosphere...
It would indeed hinder us fluffers and toolshed killers, lazs. If the fields are too close together, capture becomes nearly impossible due to the ease with which defenders can up from a nearby field and get into the fight over the disputed field. That's my major objection, since it is difficult to get a large enough horde to cover one base, let alone two or three.
But this has been hashed over and over and over...
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Originally posted by lazs2
Beet... for someone as smart as you claim to be you sure have a hard time grasping simple concepts.... I say that the fields should be closer together.. I also say that I THINK that there would be nothing but furballs.... I also say that... putting the fields closer together would not hinder the fluffers and strat girls from doing what they do... they could simply take off one field further back to get organized or play in the stratosphere...
The difference is that... if given the opportunity... people will furball... the only way they do what you want is if they are forced too... Right now we are being forced to play your game... there is an unbalance. Maybe that is why so many are unhappy these days. No one would be forced to furball if the fields were closer together.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
"Lazs, I know you said this some time ago, and I didn't comment at the time.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by lazs2
If all the fields were closer together.... you would see nothing but furballs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is precisely why you and fellow furballers wanted closer fields, and precisely why everyone else did not. You used to claim that there was "something for everyone" when the fields were pissing distance apart - glad you finally admitted that you were talking bollocks.
And now, back to the smackfest."
:aok
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Originally posted by rshubert
But this has been hashed over and over and over...
...and the furballers still don't get it - guess they never will. :confused:
It's rather sad - in my ~4yrs at WB, I don't ever recall a furballers v toolshedders debate. There was no such thing as a toolshedder. There seemed to be room for everyone to do what they wanted. No-one taunted anyone for doing something different. It's unfortunate that the AH community has been divided by this issue for all these years.
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Originally posted by lazs2
and filth.... I agree... last night that is exactly what some squad with 4 aces was doing.... very unfun... they never got slow and allways stayed out of range if they could... if they got slow enough to catch or missjudged e so that they had to fight... they died.... no fun to fight... no fun to kill... not really a furball at all. If any countrymates were low... they would not try to help at all just sit in the cherry pick seat until the countryman was dead or about to be and then swoop down on the low e or busy attacker.... if their numbers dropped to less than about a 5/3 ratio or they were down on e enough that they were lower than a couple of edfenders they all blew the wistle and ran home...
never seen anything like it... was not real fun.... very low kill per hour. When they couldn't keep a conga line going enough to be high over the enemy field (pushed back some) they simple quit playing.
This was a lot of planes in an area but nothing like a furball. You are right... these guys are more disgusting than the strat girls.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Yup, I second it, was very dissapointing.
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Originally posted by beet1e
...and the furballers still don't get it - guess they never will. :confused:
It's rather sad - in my ~4yrs at WB, I don't ever recall a furballers v toolshedders debate. There was no such thing as a toolshedder. There seemed to be room for everyone to do what they wanted. No-one taunted anyone for doing something different. It's unfortunate that the AH community has been divided by this issue for all these years.
Two factors at work here, beet1e:
1) People that love to taunt
2) People that feel they must respond or defend themselves to taunters.
As long as you have those to factions, the debate/taunt/smack talking/delittling/insulting, etc will continue.
My view: Fly (or drive) how you want, where you want, in whatever you want and ignore the other guy who says you are wrong or somehow less for doing so. It's your money, not theirs. You're here to get what you want out of it, not what the other guy wants.
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Blammo - absolutely correct. And now I see lazs has another taunt thread - something about fat bomber pilots - in his never ending quest to shame/embarrass people into playing the FB way. Bah, to hell with it. I'm just waiting for TOD, but...
...the TOD concept was first mentioned in 2002, maybe earlier. It's now almost 2006. I don't think that pot is going to boil.
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It would indeed hinder us fluffers and toolshed killers, lazs. If the fields are too close together, capture becomes nearly impossible due to the ease with which defenders can up from a nearby field and get into the fight over the disputed field. That's my major objection, since it is difficult to get a large enough horde to cover one base, let alone two or three.
OMG - Whaaa its too hard to for us base capture guys we would need 50 people instead of our normal 40 LOLH. Please! At least it becomes to hard, on some maps the furballs are almost non existant.
Beetle go back to your cave, if you aint flying you have no clue, but then that is not unusual for you LOLH:D
Two factors at work here, beet1e:
1) People that love to taunt
2) People that feel they must respond or defend themselves to taunters.
As long as you have those to factions, the debate/taunt/smack talking/delittling/insulting, etc will continue.
My view: Fly (or drive) how you want, where you want, in whatever you want and ignore the other guy who says you are wrong or somehow less for doing so. It's your money, not theirs. You're here to get what you want out of it, not what the other guy wants.
Please! As long as furballs are non existant on most maps this will be a debate that will rage forever. As far as your view... If you logged in and couldn't fly the way you wanted you would understand the rest of us. Until then enjoy the blinders.
As long as furballs are restricted due to crappy maps and toolshed heros these kinds of threads will always exist.
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so yet again the BKs gangbang and clear each others 6 on the BBs :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by mars01
Until then enjoy the blinders.
I enjoy it when people end their points with a 'you don't see if my way so you're wrong' type statement. It gives me a certain sense of symmetry.
As far as furballs being non-existant, funny, I run in one almost every single night I am on. Perhaps you are just not at the right place? For that matter, just two nights ago I ran into a long running one that had several BKs involved. I am not sure the what base it was, but it was the Mindinoa map.
Aside from that, your ad hoc attack had nothing to do with my comments. I was making a generalization and you tried to make it personal. Whatever, you did help prove my point:
As long as you have those to factions, the debate/taunt/smack talking/belittling/insulting, etc will continue.
So, for that, I thank you.
Oh, and I will start playing the way you want me to when you start paying my monthly bill for Aces High.
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Originally posted by mechanic
:cry
:lol
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Originally posted by mechanic
so yet again the BKs gangbang and clear each others 6 on the BBs :rolleyes:
Bat...CHECK 6!!
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This thread needs to be ho'ed by a BUNCH of Tempests.
Or BOMBED to oblivion by about 30 formations of LANCS and B-17's.
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Originally posted by RedTop
This thread needs to be ho'ed by a BUNCH of Tempests.
Or BOMBED to oblivion by about 30 formations of LANCS and B-17's.
lol, so true!
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
:huh
:aok
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You are wrong Blammo. Oh boy you were in a furball that means they are everywhere. Please. Go look up the word "Almost".
I didn't get personal I told you, that you were wrong. Thickin up the skin and wipe your tears.
As for Mechanic/Batsht, get used to the BKs, because as long as you have a beef with us we'll be in your face everytime you try to get in ours. I had you pegged all wrong, I thought you were cool LOLH.
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Originally posted by mars01
get used to the BKs, because as long as you have a beef with us we'll be in your face everytime you try to get in ours.
LOL-H! :lol There's one guy who really gets up your nose - xmarine - and you're never going to find a comeback for this gem - one of the best posts I ever read on this board. :D Originally posted by x0847Marine
One of these days I will post my own film.
It'll be myself and a few friends at my place drinking beers and laughing ourselves to tears twisting the nipples of the likes of dorf & (some of) the BK's.
I'm having lots of fun twisting my stick, that's what gaming is all about. yet according to "them" I am the #1 destroyier of the game, public enemy #1.. and whatever canards they can think of... LMAO...oooook dorks, I'll keep laughing at you and having fun.
These guys take this oh so seriously, it's thier life, if they didn't have such big net mouths, I'd feel sorry for them... maybe.
I'm not one of "them", playing a game is not about boosting my ego, trying to prove something, or making friends... I don't fool myself into thinking because I've had endless hours of practice at one particular game that I'm a "pilot" who "fights" with any special "skill", "bravery" or "talent".. as a combat vet, IMO, the rhetoric alone these guys cling to in order to validate themselves cheapens the meanings of these terms.
The only thing "brave" about these dorks is thier ability to type trash from the safety of thier keyboards
One of these guys in particular cracks me up the most, his on-line AH persona he firmly believes he's a "vet" "pilot" with "fighting skills"... while submerged in his AH world it stinks in here because he's the she-it. The instant you remind him he's not a real warrior and this game simply requires practice at twisting and jerking a joystick against icons on a computer screen... watch out because he'll type-cry until his fingers bleed, how dare I remind him he's just a gamer dork and not the super brave badass he wants to be.
It's about my fun, sometimes I have fun suckering these clowns into a chase then denying them the pleasure of shooting me down, other times I have fun shooting them down.. depends on my mood, either way I spend a lot of time lmao.
And don't think for a second these dorks don't have a motive, they are well practiced at one particular type of game play, figured out all the tricks.. of course they want to steer everyone in that direction so that can better thier score, do more chest thumping and ultimately validate themselves as brave fighter pilots with skills on loan from god... it makes them feel like "someone" because when they log off they know they as far from warriors as it gets, have zero to brag about, mom still makes them clean thier room and girls still hate them.
It'll never happen, but I wish some of these gamer dorks would take cues from REAL PILOTS with REAL SKILL and REAL ACCOMPLISHMENTS.. when's the last time you saw a REAL fighter pilot being interviewed on the Mil channel acting like a dork?
"dood, I pwned that no skill dweeb Iraqui foo, that Mig-tard tried to hoe me but my F16 is the shiznat!!!, beeaaaych"
(http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/lmao.gif) (http://www.zen33071.zen.co.uk/lmao.gif)
...and how true! :aok
:p :cool:
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wow, just when I thought beetle was having an inteligent conversation too.
Beet, you know you're entire argument about guns has nothing to do with the real issue in this thread. Did you even bother reading it? Or you really just don't care?
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Originally posted by FiLtH
In regards to furballing, I see many people who may think they are furballing, just whizzing around fast, and higher than the fight. I see guys in SpitVs turning slow, and a Typh swoops in and kills his guy. To me that guy isnt part of that furball. Hes just an opportunistic player looking for an easy kill.
I see 109g10s come into the fight and do the standard go up like a rocket and rope till the cows come home. That isnt furballing.
And of course the (rare) LA7 come thru guns blazing for headons and exiting thru the other side. THAT isnt furballing.
To me, furballing has always been between planes of similar qualities, and made up of similar quantities, in a slow, twisting and turning mass, trying to clear your bud's six, while constantly turning to avoid someone getting on yours.
Many people who post here probably dont really like the furball for what it is, except that it provides them with targets to swoop in on. If I were a die-hard furballers, I'd dislike them as much as the toolshedders who bomb the hangers. Also we have a huge list of planes to chose from. Why just choose 2, the spitV for when you want to turnfight, and the typh,109g10,Tempest, or LA7 for when you want to stay fast. Try a higher ENY plane and try to survive against the masses. Its alot more fun. /QUOTE]
Good observation Filthy...I wish that map w the FighterTown had only early war planes enabled.
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Originally posted by mars01
You are wrong Blammo. Oh boy you were in a furball that means they are everywhere. Please. Go look up the word "Almost".
I didn't get personal I told you, that you were wrong. Thickin up the skin and wipe your tears.
LOL
First, in reference to my use of the word "almost", there is no way I can know what is going on in every portion of the map. I can assure you, based on reports over vox from my squaddies, that every night I am on there is a furball going on somewhere. All the time? Probably not, but most the time, yes. In addition, sometimes, because I am not flying fighters or whatever, I avoid the furball.
Next, thickin up? wipe away tears? lol...this seems to be the standard BK response. Get new material...lol
I agree with you that if I logged on and couldn't fly the way I wanted that I wouldn't like it. But do you really think that through constant harrasment and whining you are going to get the other players to play the way you want them to? Have you ever thought because of the vocalness of the furballers on this issue you are actually encouraging people to come in and shut down your furball? Of course not, because everyone should play the way the furballers think they should, end of story.
Like I have said before, your problem is with HTC and not the other players. HTC designed the game, they host the game and they set the parameters. As long as they allow the things they allow, your argument is with them, not with the other players.
As a side not, I have nothing against furballers. I enjoy a good stall fight and constant head-swivelling action from time to time. I also don't like it when a base is sufficiently covered and someone feels the need to come in a pork the crap out of it. But, it's their $15, not mine. I can ask them not to, but if they do, how exactly is harrassing them going to change things? At that point I take it to HTC. Until they change it, it will continue to be the way it is.
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LOL...good read beetle! I dont care who it was directed at, but it pretty much covers all the bases on a certain type of player. Thing is, the guilty never respond properly. Its pretty easy to let ones ego and self control go wild on the internet, as there are none of the safety stops that exist in real life conversation.
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blammo... seriously.. Would you know a good furball if you seen one?
I mention this because, While I don't know if filth does... I do know that filth at least knows what isn't a good furball. You can find the kinds of fights that filth and I talked about on the map... they are getting sickeningly more frequent but those aren't furballs. Those are simply a gathering of cherry pickers of varying skills.
The only good furballs on most of the maps seem to be centered around a cv that get's close (3/4 to 1/2 a sector) to the enemy field.
We all know how long useful cv's last in the game tho.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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lazs,
I know what I think is a good furball. Perhaps it would help if you defined what you meant by a good furball. Seriously, I don't mean that with any ulterior motive at all. As a matter of fact, I am really just starting to work of breaking out of the mediocre stage of my abilities. So, if you can define what you mean by a good furball, then I could better understand where you are coming from.
What I consider a good furball is anything that keeps me constantly checking my six, constantly tracking my target and giving me the minimum amount of time to get a guns solutions. A good furball also last longer that 30 seconds and involves relatively even numbers (plus or minus).
Am I any good in them? Not yet, but I am getting better. Do I enjoy it? Heck YEAH! Not all the time, but it is one of the aspects of the game I do enjoy. I enjoy fighter jockeying over GVs, Jabos and bombing runs. I do those when the mood strikes me, I need a diversion or I am having a particularly bad night in fighters. Perhaps the time will come where all I want to do is furball. I don't know, but that is on me and not everyone else in the game.
EDIT: I know what you mean about CVs. The might as well paint them school bus yellow and draw a huge bombing target on them.
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I dont remember the last time I saw a furball that did-not-end up over the top of one side or the others base.
That has alot to do with a good fight. Something I havent seen much of it any at all in AH2. Its now about hording, pushing to the base, getting a cap, vulching, killing FH's then taking the base. Rinse and repeat.
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When the hording takes over,there is not much you can do about it(all countries do it)..It always happens in Prime-Time so avoid the big red dar-bar...Go take your plane of choice(early war plane works best) and find an undefended base...someone always ups and if u let him get a bit of alt u'll get a series of 1 on 1's until u get shot down...
Or try the DA and up a30...great fites in there!(just be sure to chk 6 before shooting)
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Lastnight there seemed to be only red bar one place , green bar another. I toyed with the idea of going to the DA but just logged off. I really think we should get together on the DA idea. We could make it a fun place if we tried. Set teams, plane match ups etc...could be great!
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Originally posted by lazs2
blammo... seriously.. Would you know a good furball if you seen one?
I mention this because, While I don't know if filth does... I do know that filth at least knows what isn't a good furball. You can find the kinds of fights that filth and I talked about on the map... they are getting sickeningly more frequent but those aren't furballs. Those are simply a gathering of cherry pickers of varying skills.
The only good furballs on most of the maps seem to be centered around a cv that get's close (3/4 to 1/2 a sector) to the enemy field.
We all know how long useful cv's last in the game tho.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Amen to that.
PS... Filth can furball, we had fun one night on the map with the fighter island in the middle. We racked up a bunch between us and lived to tell the tale.
PSS... bettle and blamo are living endorsements for birth control. ;)
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Originally posted by DipStick
PSS... bettle and blamo are living endorsements for birth control. ;)
Oooo...and ad hoc personal attack...do you feel better now? lol
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When the hording takes over
If we got 2 or even 3 hordes to run inro each other that would be an Uber furball no matter what map your on.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
I dont remember the last time I saw a furball that did-not-end up over the top of one side or the others base.
That has alot to do with a good fight. Something I havent seen much of it any at all in AH2. Its now about hording, pushing to the base, getting a cap, vulching, killing FH's then taking the base. Rinse and repeat.
You forgot the VH. The VH always goes first.
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Originally posted by Lye-El
You forgot the VH. The VH always goes first.
Yeah sure it does.
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Like I have said before, your problem is with HTC and not the other players. HTC designed the game, they host the game and they set the parameters. As long as they allow the things they allow, your argument is with them, not with the other players.
As a side not, I have nothing against furballers. I enjoy a good stall fight and constant head-swivelling action from time to time. I also don't like it when a base is sufficiently covered and someone feels the need to come in a pork the crap out of it. But, it's their $15, not mine. I can ask them not to, but if they do, how exactly is harrassing them going to change things? At that point I take it to HTC. Until they change it, it will continue to be the way it is.
Blammo, I know the problem is with HTC, but it is also with people such as yourself whom think they know what a furball is and go on to prescribe how furballs are everywhere and that there is no problem and people are just being whiney.
A furball to me is a place where I don't have to fly over a sector, there are 10 to 20 cons fighting it out between 500ft and 5k. Not 10 to 20 cons where some are attacking a base and the other are defending, not 10 cons vulching a base and 5 upping, not 10 cons with alt cherry picking low guys.
I appreciate your side note and see we have a common ground. I routinely log in with the few moments I have to actually play this game and leave frustrated because there aren't any decent fights, battles or furballs going on.
I don't like spending my time flying 1 to 2 sectors only to fight 6 or 8 guys on me. If I was only flying 1 min or 30sec into those odds then its doable.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
That has alot to do with a good fight. Something I havent seen much of it any at all in AH2.
The new politically correct LA's High term for that you just said would be called a "Whine"
Even though it is the truth. The old AH1 furballs are a thing of the past.
Originally posted by Morpheus
Its now about hording, pushing to the base, getting a cap, vulching, killing FH's then taking the base. Rinse and repeat.
The new politically correct LA's High term for that you just said is called "Strategy."
I would call it something less politically correct, but then I would just be labelled a 'Furball Whiner"
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
If we got 2 or even 3 hordes to run inro each other that would be an Uber furball no matter what map your on.
I would say it would be more like all 2 or 3 hordes would run from each other.
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HOLY CARP BATMAN 8 pages of blah bu blah bu blah bu blah. Just think somebody from hitech has to read all this garbage to moderate this thread and every blah bu blah bu blah tread just like it. What a waste of time. All the same people saying all the same things get a private chat room allready and save some development time for hitech. Maybe they might be able to get some work done instead.
Next time one of you wants to know what takes so long to develope stuff for the game look in the mirror.
blah bu blah bu blah
oops I allmost forgot :noid :O :furious :aok :lol :rolleyes: :D ;) :mad:
[SIZE=8]QUAH QUAH QUAH[/SIZE]
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so why dont the rockets scientist furballers select each country furball group,then the 2 furball groups opposing each other put up a mission like they are going too take a base.1 person from each group will be in contact
with the other group leader,they both up missions headed toward each other.Keep in mind the furballers dont have too blab to everyone about the mission.The squads from each country that form the furball group would communicate between themselves.
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Originally posted by AutoPilot
so why dont the rockets scientist furballers select each country furball group,then the 2 furball groups opposing each other put up a mission like they are going too take a base.1 person from each group will be in contact
with the other group leader,they both up missions headed toward each other.Keep in mind the furballers dont have too blab to everyone about the mission.The squads from each country that form the furball group would communicate between themselves.
Cause as soon as the darbars show up, someone will kill the FHs so that the resources could go and fight for the cause
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Cause as soon as the darbars show up
Dont most of the furballs stay below dar anyway?
and it doesn't have to be a base,could be cordinates to a discreet location,
but the problem with that is most don't know how to read cordinates.......
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I'm sorry, this has been used before. But I feel it's very appropriate for this one....
(http://www.furballunderground.com/freehost/files/6/Stop-Dear_God.jpg)
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lets be honest, thats the last thing you want ;)
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Originally posted by dedalos
Cause as soon as the darbars show up, someone will kill the FHs so that the resources could go and fight for the cause
It is so seldom that one finds one of your analytical skills Dedalos. So few can analyze the results of actions and then so succinctly frame the inevitable outcome.
:aok
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imop,pure Furballers, are the best skilled fighters,
but most of them don't know watermelon what's going on on the map, where's "North" and"South" on the map, in their dizzy turn fight are surprized to see map changing
without goal and patriotic feelings, are kind of unemployed mercenarys,when it comes to organized actions, are like a bunch of hipies crackheads in "70s trying to rob a bank:)
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Originally posted by ghi
imop,pure Furballers, are the best skilled fighters,
Having skills, or wining a fight, or winning in any game or sport you will ever play, or even in business, school, etc. is not a requirement to have fun. Some times it is fun to just be there, try, be part of the experience, trying to win under impossible odds, etc. Once people realise that and the presure to be a winner is gone, you will see a lot more fighters in this game. AFter all, there can only be one winner in a 1 vs 1.
People may say they are having fun killing buildings or plaing for score, or winning the war, but when I run you down in a lala after you have 15 vulches in your D9, I don't think you had fun that night. Plaing for winning the war is kind of safe too since hey you did everything you could. It was the furbalers and the nubs or the ENY that ruined it, soi you did not really lose.
So, less woring about scores and winning and about who is the best == more fights and more fun.
PS. You means the reader and not ghi.
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Originally posted by dedalos
Having skills, or wining a fight, or winning in any game or sport you will ever play, or even in business, school, etc. is not a requirement to have fun. Some times it is fun to just be there, try, be part of the experience, trying to win under impossible odds, etc. Once people realise that and the presure to be a winner is gone, you will see a lot more fighters in this game. AFter all, there can only be one winner in a 1 vs 1.
People may say they are having fun killing buildings or plaing for score, or winning the war, but when I run you down in a lala after you have 15 vulches in your D9, I don't think you had fun that night. Plaing for winning the war is kind of safe too since hey you did everything you could. It was the furbalers and the nubs or the ENY that ruined it, soi you did not really lose.
So, less woring about scores and winning and about who is the best == more fights and more fun.
PS. You means the reader and not ghi.
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(http://library.thinkquest.org/6068/pages/yawn.jpg)
(http://www.rockingham.k12.va.us/sound_sorting/initial_consonants/y/images/yawn.jpg)
(http://www.exploretravel.com/upperlevel/slides/Namibia_Web/NamibiaImages/YAWN.JPG)
(http://www.greenbergcreative.com/archives/spingFever/news.yawn.jpg)
(http://www.mindhacks.com/blog/files/2004/12/lionsyawning.jpg)
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whats with the photoshop on the last pic?
geuss its to make them look even more bored.
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#$#@#*& !!!!!! toolshedders trying to pork this thread :(
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(http://www.furballunderground.com/freehost/files/1/hordefun.JPG)
Now that looks like great fun.
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Good pic Morph,that looks like a mission that needs to be temporarily diabled.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
(http://www.furballunderground.com/freehost/files/1/hordefun.JPG)
Now that looks like great fun.
That's A7 last evening,
This kind of picture i got most of this year with knits out# bish 2 to 1 sometimes,
That base was eassy to defend, you had A2 4k base just north,
Why did't knits set up a fighter sweep mission with those (i'm sure 20-30) cowards sitting in tower @ A7 and fight back? It could be more fun, Fight horde with horde!
But they chose to sit in tower watch others getting vulched and giving watermelon to Bish on ch.200. :Vulchers!!!HORDE!!
no sorry for bad organized team, The roster was showing 159 knits vs 170 bish,
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This picture says nothing. At some point during the day I can get a pic of nits or rooks doing the same..... Whats the problem??? I cant help it if you can't get organized enough to save your base.
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ghi...
you're yourop pean right?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by ghi
That's A7 last evening,
This kind of picture i got most of this year with knits out# bish 2 to 1 sometimes,
That base was eassy to defend, you had A2 4k base just north,
Why did't knits set up a fighter sweep mission with those (i'm sure 20-30) cowards sitting in tower @ A7 and fight back? It could be more fun, Fight horde with horde!
But they chose to sit in tower watch others getting vulched and giving watermelon to Bish on ch.200. :Vulchers!!!HORDE!!
no sorry for bad organized team, The roster was showing 159 knits vs 170 bish,
Ghi it dosesnt mater who it is.... All sides do it, bish more than others, and no, hell no, its not fun.
We were deffending genious... You guys spent close to two hours trying to take that base and couldnt, then started to move over towards 9, and horde both and still couldnt. When I logged off around midnight I still dont think you had taken either a7 or 9.
What fun is this? I mean do you guys just hang out over the burning fighter hangers and talk about your days events giving the other guy and ocasional reacharound to keep him awake? ? There is obviously nothing else to do.
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What fun is this? I mean do you guys just hang out over the burning fighter hangers and talk about your days events giving the other guy and ocasional reacharound to keep him awake? ? There is obviously nothing else to do.
LOL Exactly.
My Lord 23 guys and you morons had to drop the hangers. Lame!!! Anyone in that pic should be ashamed of their lack of ability. Morp post the names of the great moron hord.
Every country does this. This is what AH has become night after night. I can log in at any point and find a bunch of guys doing just that, flying over a field where the FHrs were just downed asking each other, "Did anyone bring a goon?", "Who's got the goon?", "Is a Goon on the way?", "should I auger and get a goon?" for as long as the hangers are down. And most times the maroons leave the VH up so that there are 50 GVs sitting there.
Now I could care less if the morons actually captured the field, but you toolshedders usually don't, so whats the point.
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Yup, they didnt have a goon because I killed troops at all their near by bases in hopes they might fight instead.
Wrong.
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LOL furb thats how this game leaves me lately Hahahaha
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Im going to address the " WHy didnt you guys just organize" thing.
This game, if played every day is just fun enough to go out and kill something, at one's on leisure. Its not quite fun enough to sit down and plan every sortie, coordinate with every squad, and efficiently attack and capture each base, with minimal fun-loss to all involved.
Perhaps a briefing room would help, but many people in here have no interest in it anyways. I see it every night.."MISSION FORMING". I look and theres 1 to 2 guys in it.
Communication, unless a rare night, is usually lacking, 10 goons or none, that type of thing. So most guys, if met with resistance, treat it with the sledgehammer to crack an egg technique. Could it be taken without destroying everything? Probably, but that usually takes planning, timing, and talking, and most of us are either too tired, too drunk, or too lazy to do it, mission after mission.
The single thing I could see helping the whole mess...is to make barracks indestructible. Thats the reason you cant find a fight, and have it last before someone ruins it. Guys attack a base, the enemy porks troops, so they move onto the next target. Make it so troops cant be porked, and guys will stay at that area and try to fight the goons thru. Leaving the area where furballs are happening alone long enough to enjoy it.
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Originally posted by lazs2
ghi...
you're yourop pean right?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
sorry for my poor english, i talk worst than i write, but i try to make myself understod , slap in face makes me learn more than spellcheck , Hit me baby ! :)
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Originally posted by Morpheus
Ghi it dosesnt mater who it is.... All sides do it, bish more than others, and no, hell no, its not fun.
We were deffending genious... You guys spent close to two hours trying to take that base and couldnt, then started to move over towards 9, and horde both and still couldnt. When I logged off around midnight I still dont think you had taken either a7 or 9.
What fun is this? I mean do you guys just hang out over the burning fighter hangers and talk about your days events giving the other guy and ocasional reacharound to keep him awake? ? There is obviously nothing else to do.
I find fun in furballing, and tactical side of the game: base capture defence,
Sad for some players not for others, the final goal of any good fights inbetwen 2 bases is going to be always the same : overwhelm the base and take it, doesn't matter if FHs are up and vulched, or down,
There are 2 kind of "fights" in MA:
1. fun furballing player vs player
2. team vs team, what you call "toolshedding"
imop, the 2nd is kind of instinct created by the game for over 90% of AH players ,Cuz that's how the game is built,
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I think its about time I dusted THIS (http://www.furballunderground.com/die.wmv) masterpeice off.:)
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Awesome i just made the 420th post rock on
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421
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i fight non stop against the horde on defense...all i see if i get up is there is 20 more guys inbound to get a vulch kill...sad part is i usually kill 2 or 3 before they get me..and im normally the only one upping
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Originally posted by jaxxo
i fight non stop against the horde on defense...all i see if i get up is there is 20 more guys inbound to get a vulch kill...sad part is i usually kill 2 or 3 before they get me..and im normally the only one upping
Hehehe, Jaxxo man, i belive you, we ussed to pss off a lot of vulchers and missions , Upping caped bases is fun, sometimes i make it and kill a goon or few troops ,
Is always fun upping IL2s HOing party with Waffle , Impala and few more bish on caped bases, we get vulched a lot but who cares about score, k/d:)
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Originally posted by Morpheus
(http://www.furballunderground.com/freehost/files/1/hordefun.JPG)
Now that looks like great fun.
It is with anti-aircraft for the short duration that the VH lasts. :D
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Originally posted by Morpheus
Yup, they didnt have a goon because I killed troops at all their near by bases in hopes they might fight instead.
Wrong.
:rofl
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some people just dont get that 1.Those that do Fire in the hole!
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Originally posted by Lye-El
It is with anti-aircraft for the short duration that the VH lasts. :D
I must be missing something here :D
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Originally posted by Morpheus
I think its about time I dusted THIS (http://www.furballunderground.com/die.wmv) masterpeice off.:)
Die MFER Die MFER Die :aok Made me dust off the triple rectifer and bust out the prs:rofl
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Morpheus - I don't expect we'll ever agree on much, and we've had our differences in the past ;) but I have to agree with you about that horde pic you posted. In terms of game suckage, that is off the scale.
I once posted a thread in here about how much that sucked, the only difference being that all the visible targets were green, not red.
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I see that pic and think its a shame im in a spitV not a P47
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Originally posted by Vudak
I must be missing something here :D
The primary purpose of the Osti is as an anti aircraft platform.:D
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Originally posted by Morpheus
(http://www.furballunderground.com/freehost/files/1/hordefun.JPG)
Now that looks like great fun.
Just for yucks, next time we see that -- take the screen shot with player ID instead of plane icons, and post the pics.
Give us something else to smack about.
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Originally posted by Simaril
Just for yucks, next time we see that -- take the screen shot with player ID instead of plane icons, and post the pics.
Give us something else to smack about.
Ya can't get enemy player IDs on icons ... but you probably know that already.
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(http://www.furballunderground.com/freehost/files/1/horde.jpg)
(http://www.furballunderground.com/freehost/files/1/horde2.jpg)
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Hehehe... no wonder I've been defending fields with 1-2 other Bish vs 10-20
Knits or Rooks. At the same time they are there, a few other fields are getting hit and nobody's defending. Rather watch paint dry than fly in those hordes. :eek:
Sad thing is defending outnumbered 5-10:1 or flying off CVs until they die are the only way to get a fight on Bish.
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I believe, in all honesty, and with all due respect to previous participants in this thread, that a fight in Aces High 2 Main Arena is only as hard to find as you make it. after all, there are sometimes upwards of 500 people flying there. surely if one cannot find a fight, one is not looking very well, or maybe just without any true effort to believe the fight will be there.
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Originally posted by mechanic
I believe, in all honesty, and with all due respect to previous participants in this thread, that a fight in Aces High 2 Main Arena is only as hard to find as you make it. after all, there are sometimes upwards of 500 people flying there. surely if one cannot find a fight, one is not looking very well, or maybe just without any true effort to believe the fight will be there.
Right now, it am having trouble loggin on let alone finding a fight.
I hope by finding a fight, you don't mean uping on a field that is being vulched :)
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i certainly do not.
i have yet to log in to the server, with all the rooms open and not found at least one good fight in one of them.
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those screenies are not a horde
THIS is a horde: http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/uberrookhorde.ahf
my Sa went out the window about 1 sec. into it and just wanted to get at least one before the inevitable end
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holy spacial awareness trapman!, this is the best working horde, the organised mission horde..
the uberhorde class!
no more moaing till you get this in your face 5 on 30.
good to see an old salt of the earth like Artlaw got ya though, ill wager a small fee it was his mission. that looked like fun
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Originally posted by mechanic
I believe, in all honesty, and with all due respect to previous participants in this thread, that a fight in Aces High 2 Main Arena is only as hard to find as you make it. after all, there are sometimes upwards of 500 people flying there. surely if one cannot find a fight, one is not looking very well, or maybe just without any true effort to believe the fight will be there.
From what I remember of the game, I'd agree with you absolutely. But you could post films to substantiate your point of view, and one particular cohort, which shall remain nameless, would proclaim "those are not fights". :lol
Apparently a "fight" is only a "fight" if played out in a certain approved way, in a particular plane type on a designated map, so it's funny how so many aerial combat scenarios in WW2 were won by "not fighting", and how so many WW2 aces were decorated for "not fighting". :aok
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I believe that for some reason.. all the yourop peans and especially the brits want AH to be just like real war...90% excruciatingly boring... 9% unbearably uncomfortable and 1% terrifying.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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That sounds like WW2OL. Thats why I left that game. I wish there was something to make it feel more like real war though. Through breifing rooms, or penalties that carry over through campaigns.
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Originally posted by lazs2
I believe that for some reason.. all the yourop peans and especially the brits want AH to be just like real war...90% excruciatingly boring... 9% unbearably uncomfortable and 1% terrifying.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Change the 1% to "taking a pee break" and you'll have it. ;)
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AH2 is just a game.
Furballing is part of the game.
Toolshedding is part of the game.
Only furballing or only toolshedding is only playing part of the game.
Playing only part of a game would be rather like trying to play basketball by just dribbling and passing up and down the court without shooting; or just shooting from either end of the court without dribbling and passing. Fun? Perhaps. Part of the game? Maybe. Pointless and silly? Absolutely.
Play the game.
Play all of the game.
Don't be a dribbler. :D
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Originally posted by cempa
AH2 is just a game.
Furballing is part of the game.
Toolshedding is part of the game.
Only furballing or only toolshedding is only playing part of the game.
Playing only part of a game would be rather like trying to play basketball by just dribbling and passing up and down the court without shooting; or just shooting from either end of the court without dribbling and passing. Fun? Perhaps. Part of the game? Maybe. Pointless and silly? Absolutely.
Play the game.
Play all of the game.
Don't be a dribbler. :D
Genius
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Originally posted by lazs2
I believe that for some reason.. all the yourop peans and especially the brits want AH to be just like real war...90% excruciatingly boring... 9% unbearably uncomfortable and 1% terrifying.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
what about me? :(
Originally posted by DipStick
Change the 1% to "taking a pee break" and you'll have it. ;)
FU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHY ARE YOU ALL SO MEAN?!!!!!?!?!?!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :cry :cry
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Originally posted by Furball
what about me? :(
Since when did Brits want to be considered Yuropeeean?
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we dont, but he mentioned us specifically there.
europeans talk, look and smell funneh.
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Dribblers rule!
You know you are the exception to the rule Furby. ;)
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furball...
I consider you to be very human like.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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just a question... does any squad here who claims to be in the furballer's camp and swears death to tool shedders ever get a twinge and join the toolshed horde just for fun, taking rockets and bombs and stuff for porkage? I mean i have heard you could be kicked out for that kind of thing in some elite squads.
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Originally posted by mechanic
just a question... does any squad here who claims to be in the furballer's camp and swears death to tool shedders ever get a twinge and join the toolshed horde just for fun, taking rockets and bombs and stuff for porkage? I mean i have heard you could be kicked out for that kind of thing in some elite squads.
Believe it or not ... some of BKs HAVE and DO participate in land-grabbing ... at times.
A few weeks ago, Stang, I believe, put up a brilliant Stuka Mission.
He brought all the right planes (multiple goons, escorts, and Stukas ... many Stukas) and players and ... BING ... BANG ... BOOM ... a most successful mission along with a capture. Was a blast taking out all the last of the cons with Stukas once ord was dropped.
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batclown, the attitude of the blue knights doesnt really stem from what we are told to do, it is the attitude of the people they look to recruit. people that join are a certain type of player.
i up bombers occasionally and bomb things, because i like deathstarring people that engage me. i know how to rank, i know how to bomb, i just choose not to as i do not find any satisfaction in it.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Believe it or not ... some of BKs HAVE and DO participate in land-grabbing ... at times.
A few weeks ago, Stang, I believe, put up a brilliant Stuka Mission.
He brought all the right planes (multiple goons, escorts, and Stukas ... many Stukas) and players and ... BING ... BANG ... BOOM ... a most successful mission along with a capture. Was a blast taking out all the last of the cons with Stukas once ord was dropped.
cool slapshot, glad to hear it.
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Originally posted by Furball
batclown, the attitude of the blue knights doesnt really stem from what we are told to do, it is the attitude of the people they look to recruit. people that join are a certain type of player.
i up bombers occasionally and bomb things, because i like deathstarring people that engage me. i know how to rank, i know how to bomb, i just choose not to as i do not find any satisfaction in it.
hey you assuming i was asking the BK directly.....how narrow minded, and uncaracteristic of you fluffsphere
edit: although i've just realised my flaw, theres only one squad who could fit the criteria in this thread. I take it back. appologies.
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Originally posted by mechanic
hey you assuming i was asking the BK directly.....how narrow minded, and uncaracteristic of you fluffsphere
no, i was simply answering your question from my perspective, i cannot answer your general question with a general answer.
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did the edit before i saw ur reply.
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Originally posted by lazs2
I believe that for some reason.. all the yourop peans and especially the brits want AH to be just like real war...90% excruciatingly boring... 9% unbearably uncomfortable and 1% terrifying.
Perish the thought that a WW2 sim should sim WW2. :lol
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now you are getting it beet....
war isn't all that fun.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Lazs,
Jedi said it best on AGW, some 6½ years ago now. He was talking about the new up close gunnery in WB 2.6, and said OK, well, first of all let me say that I don't much care for the new gunnery, primarily because it has sapped a bit of the fun from the game. Remember, REAL air combat wasn't FUN at all. The closer we get to REAL, the farther we'll get from FUN.
But, very importantly, he added that in accordance with the law of diminishing returns, there was a limit to how far we could move away from REAL before we stopped getting any closer to FUN. IMO, that point was reached in AH a loooooong time ago. Think of it like a sine wave, with the number of degrees on the X axis from 0 to 180 representing realism, and the value of the sine on the Y axis from 0 to 1 representing the fun factor. As we move away from zero on the x axis, we move away from REAL and the FUN starts to increase. But, as we pass 90 on the X axis, further movement away from REAL results in a decrease in FUN, until when we get to 180 on the X axis and furthest away from REAL, it's no FUN at all. And that's the point it seems to have reached, what with your squaddies posting threads like this (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=149730).
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Oh, and Lazs - you posted in that thread too. You said
this is difficult for me since I like you but.... I think that you are not thinking things through. Most people feel that the damage model could use a little help but really.... would you be that much better off? A 109 could die very quickly from coolant system damage... a mere ping at D1 would take it out... The Fw would no longer be able to shrug off multiple hits while rolling wildly all the way home. Us mg guys have allways had to deal with staying on a con a little longer to get the kill and I have allways had a bunch of assists. It is well known that the LW cannon model was "artificially enhanced" No matter what though, we can't go back to the old long range gunnery.
That last sentence is interesting, in light of our earlier discussions in this thread! :aok
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that's all fine to drag up a thread that is six years plus old but...
let's put it in context. the "old long range gunnery model" that is being discussed and quoted by me was.... no dispertion for any reason. It was about twice as easy as what we have now in AH. To not have liked that one and then to also think this current AH one is reasonably realistic are consistent thinking.
but... really... how long has it been since you played? are you going by some primal memory or something? I don't see people rushing in here to agree that 1000 yard wing removing stunts are that common in AH. Maybe you are thinking of another game entirely?
as for immitating war.... not interested. that would be excruciatingly boring... I want the best FM and damage and gunnery model that we can get within the limitations of a computer so that I can see how these planes would have done against each other..... as often as possible.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by lazs2
I don't see people rushing in here to agree that 1000 yard wing removing stunts are that common in AH. Maybe you are thinking of another game entirely?
as for immitating war.... not interested. that would be excruciatingly boring... I want the best FM and damage and gunnery model that we can get within the limitations of a computer so that I can see how these planes would have done against each other..... as often as possible.
Earlier on you said beet clamors on about how it is unrealistic to hit something at 800 yards.. it was done tho and by guys a lot more stressed and with about 1,000 less hours practice than we have at doing what we do...
And as I said, the odd lucky ping hitting the oil and causing a forced landing shortly afterwards would be about it. If you want an intelligent discussion about dispersion and the likelihood of shooting planes down at 800/1000yds, see my thread about dispersion (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=163782) in the Aircraft and Vehicles forum. You are mentioned in the first post!
And... as for "Maybe you are thinking of another game entirely?", I was thinking of two other games, written by the same people who wrote this. One was WB (before 2.6) which you played, and the other is AH1, which you also played. In AH1 even I blew a guy's wing off at 1100yds and an upward angle of 30°. :lol If you would look at the bullet drop factor posted by 2bighorn, you will see that at 800 yards it would be a massive 15ft. Perhaps this goes part way to explain why the US Navy manual stated that the .50 cal was not effective beyond 333yds (1000ft).
And... as for "I want the best FM and damage and gunnery model that we can get within the limitations of a computer so that I can see how these planes would have done against each other..... as often as possible." - surely you've found out by now, after all these years? :lol Oh wait - I know you like activities that involve doing the exact same thing over and over.... ;)
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off on some confusing crusade again beet? AH1? we aren't playing AH1 or early warbirds here... there are so many things that are wrong or intentionaly dishonest in your post it is hard to know where to begin...
someone pointed out you used my name in another thread.. I had to tell them that you must have been thinking of another lazs.
The gunnery here and what we seen in early WB is night and day different.
There is no 15' of bullet drop for a .50 cal that is sighted in at say 400 or 500 yards like guys do in this game. I stand by what I said...if you sight in your guns at 4-500 yards and you shoot at a sitting duck and you have 1000's of hours of practice and there is no fear of death involved and you are in a comfortable room looking at a computer screen....
It is indeed possible with an accurate gunnery model, to hit said plane once in a while at 800-1000 yards..
now... when was the last time you had a wing removed in AH2 from 1000 yards? Oh wait....
you don't play? Well... I guess it is you who is doing the same thing over and over eh?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by lazs2
off on some confusing crusade again beet?
No, I was commenting on your previous post. And there is only one "lazs" - thank Cod. ;)
As I said in that other thread, I could calculate the likelihood of bullets hitting the target from a given range, if only I knew the angle of dispersion. I admit I was wr..., er... mistaken about "built in" dispersion, but it seems likely that some dispersion would be necessary to give the pilot the chance of scoring hits, and would have to be put there if it didn't already exist because of flexing wings, hot gun barrels etc., as pointed out by the other posters. There is no 15' of bullet drop for a .50 cal that is sighted in at say 400 or 500 yards like guys do in this game.
I never said there was. Refer to 2bighorn's values in that thread - 11ft drop at 800 yards, 15ft drop at 900yds. It is indeed possible with an accurate gunnery model, to hit said plane once in a while at 800-1000 yards..
I agree, and as I said earlier, our own D. Bader busted the oil system of an Me109 at that range, with a very lucky ping. But - as Bader said himself - the proportion of ammo that would be wasted at that range would be huge, and it would not be possible to shear wings off at that range, as was a matter of routine in certain WW2 flight sims I could mention. ;) I was able to calculate how huge the ammo wastage would be after reading posts in the other thread.
I say again, the max effective range for the .50cal was 1000' or 333yds. That is straight from the US Navy gunnery manual of 1944, and supplied by 2bighorn. there are so many things that are wrong or intentionaly dishonest in your post it is hard to know where to begin...
What I have said is based on the facts available, as endorsed by that US Navy manual. Are you saying the US Navy got it wrong?
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sheeesh... do you know how you are making yourself look? there is no 15' bullet drop at 1000 yards when a .50 is sighted in at 400-500 yards.
and no... I am not saying the navy is wrong unless they are claiming that a .50 isn't accurate or effective past 300 yards... guys who shoot .50s regularly stay on a jeep at 2000 yards.. the amount of enerygy at 1000 yards is still on the order of three times what a .30 has at the muzzle.
Again... so that you don't get confused... if you have your convergence set at 400-500 yards and you have a steady gun platform and fresh mounts and guns and the target is a sitting duck and you have 1000's of hours of practice and are in a comfy room behind a comfy monitor with no fear of your life.... it is indeed possible to get hits on a target that is 800-1000 yards out with an accurate gunnery model...
even so... and you wouldn't know about this since you don't play... people rarely do it in AH... most close to ranges of 200-400 before firing even with convergences set at 400-500.
Tell ya what.... play the game... sighn up and play... then get back on here and tell us something that has the weight of experiance behind it.... experiance that is better than 3 versions and two games back that is..
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by Furball
batclown, the attitude of the blue knights doesnt really stem from what we are told to do, it is the attitude of the people they look to recruit. people that join are a certain type of player.
i up bombers occasionally and bomb things, because i like deathstarring people that engage me. i know how to rank, i know how to bomb, i just choose not to as i do not find any satisfaction in it.
You young jedi apprentice have no idea what a Deathstar is! Now if you'd flown in AW you would definately know what a deathstar was and can do. roflol
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1:p
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I was in AW when it was dos.... does that count? they had deathstars then. It was funny but nothing like we have now... in those days the guys were just having fun and not really out to accomplish anything or prove anything..
these days the fluffs are used to "prove" that being skilless is just as important and worthy as anything else... that their lack of skill has a purpose. That patience in the face of extreme bordom is somehow...in itself a "skill"
and... they demand not only respect but participation by those who would normally ignore them.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Gee, Lasz, I was in AW when it was DOS too. I paid my $6/hr in the evenings and $12/hr during the day to play on a 2400 baud modem on GEnie too. I paid to enjoy the joys of Aladdin lag on the boards. I remember when John Taylor and Kelton Flynn invented the game. If that's the criteria, then my opinion is just as valid as yours. ;)
I guess I'm one of those "fluffs" who doesn't just tool around in the sky all evening shooting at anything that gets in my front view. Unlike many of those who only furball, I know how to take off from and land on a carrier deck. Maybe you've forgotten, but there were gvs and cvs and buffs back in the original AW too. Go figure. I wonder if maybe adding more than one dimension to the game was intentional?
Like AW (very like), this game has many aspects. Some choose to play only one aspect of the whole game. If you want to just fly around shooting at others just flying around, then fine. Do so. If you want to just drive a tank, then fine. Do so. If you want to just fly B17's in the loneliness of near earth orbit above the clouds, then fine. Do so. It's all good, Lasz. Because you only want to fly in a furball doesn't make you better than anyone else playing this game. See my earlier post. The same goes for those who only toolshed. One or the other or both doesn't make you better than anyone else.
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cempa... missed your earlier post.. I do see that you were in AW dos..
That doesn't make either of our opinions any more worthwhile... it wasn't about that.. the guy was telling us what a deathstar was and I used dos AW as a qualifier that I knew what one was... you do too... that doesn't lend or take away weight from our opinions about what is going on in AH..
pretty much.... the "deathstar" or even gv's or bombers in the early AW (I quit AW when it went windows and never went back so don't know about later versions) pretty much, that early AW... had nothing to do with the type of action we see here in AH.
not many were paying $6 an hour to do.....well.... you call it.. what did you call it? "If you want to just fly B17's in the loneliness of near earth orbit above the clouds," yeah... do nothing... not many payed to do nothing...
deathstars weren't paying to do nothing... they were all about action. they also took some skill to do well... those who they slaughtered had to admit that a lot of skill was involved in what they did...
now... the thing that is happening here is... that the skilless aren't happy with just sightseeing as you claim.... they want their lack of skill to be recognized as... well, as a skill? laughable.
They are essentially saying that if not forced... or even if given the opportunity.... no one will play with them soooooo...
The game has to be designed so that they have a huge effect on those that do not wish to have anything to do with them.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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after playing flight sims for how ever long, surely you know how to shoot a bomber down...
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I understand, Lasz. I just wanted to chime in as one of those who doesn't just do one or the other, and claim it's the best.
There were a lot of people who were willing to pay by the hour to fly buff missions. But back then, it was easier to find gunners - for some reason. It was fun to sit around with 3-4 other guys in a B-17 and chat while the bomber climbed forever to alt. A manned (not just a pilot, for those playing the home game) B-17 was a nightmare for attacking fighters. For the same reason, it was exciting to climb to alt to attack a buff; because you never knew until the last minute if it had manned guns. Fun for all.
B-17's weren't the boring part. It was driving a tank to a fight before someone invented spawn points. Now that was boring. ;) I had to be really, really drunk - too drunk to fly drunk - to do it. But I did it on occasion, even at $6/hr.
I guess my point is just that neither side is all right; and neither side is all wrong. There are times when I'm trying to take a field and I get PO'd that everyone else there just wants to dogfight. There are times when I just want to dogfight and get PO'd because someone buffs the fh's on one side or the other. I don't hate furballers and I don't hate toolshedders. I don't even hate my ex-wife.
:D
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Originally posted by lazs2
and no... I am not saying the navy is wrong unless they are claiming that a .50 isn't accurate or effective past 300 yards...
Read the other thread, in particular the posts made by 2bighorn. He quoted from the US Navy Gunnery manual from 1944. I haven't seen it myself, but 2bighorn advises us that it states that the maximum effective range of .50 cal was 1000ft - 333yds. guys who shoot .50s regularly stay on a jeep at 2000 yards..
Please explain the above statement, and how it relates to WW2 aerial combat. "guys who shoot .50s regularly stay on a jeep" - does this mean they don't fall off? if you have your convergence set at 400-500 yards and you have a steady gun platform and fresh mounts and guns and the target is a sitting duck and you have 1000's of hours of practice and are in a comfy room behind a comfy monitor with no fear of your life.... it is indeed possible to get hits on a target that is 800-1000 yards out with an accurate gunnery model...
...and please explain how that relates to WW2 aerial combat. Were the pilots able to set their convergence in flight, or at all? Did they have a "steady gun platform", what with vibrations from the engine(s), buffeting due to turbulence and (as Grendel pointed out in the other thread) guns that could overheat, introducing further inaccuracies? Did the pilots of WW2 have 1000s of hours practice? Did they have an accurate gunnery model? ;) You know as well as I do, Lazs, that in these games, the bullet radius can be tweaked to allow easier gunnery, with bullets the size of marrows. That's what was done in at least of the WB training wheel arenas. Tell ya what.... play the game... sighn up and play... then get back on here and tell us something that has the weight of experiance behind it.... experiance that is better than 3 versions and two games back that is..
It won't alter the facts, Lazs. And the fact is that routine air-to-air destruction at 800+ yds is BS. Sure, AH2 addressed the easymode gunnery. Don't you recall all the whine threads when it was no longer "easy"?
How much air turbulence is there now in your favourite WW2 sim/game? What about clouds?
You are hardly in a position to pontificate about realism, when you support your friends who make demands like "Get rid of night"/"Get rid of clouds"/"Get rid of oil on the windscreen".
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Originally posted by doc1kelley
You young jedi apprentice have no idea what a Deathstar is! Now if you'd flown in AW you would definately know what a deathstar was and can do. roflol
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1:p
Jay, Ya old dolt..... Your showing your age .... LOL :aok
CHECKERS
`CUCA'S SQUAD CHKRS ` AW 3 , AW MV, RR PAC ....:cool:
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beet you will never get it. you want to artificially make the guns work worse in order to get the results of WWII...
you want the gunnery to be bad enough that even guys with thousands of hours of practice can't get any better at gunnery than a farm boy who never fired a machine gun from a plane till he got his hour total of practice and maybe less in real combat...
as for the navy report... It is simply wrong. A .50 is extremely effective out to 2000 yards... the amount of energy is many times that of a .30 out to 1000 yards even when you measure the .30 at the muzzle (that's point blank to you). The navy is wrong if what you state is true. "effective"? how is having thounsands of pounds of energy (enough to smash an engine block) at 1000 yards not "effective"?
I haven't read the thread... no need to. You are pretty much saying that if a WWII soldier could not do it then no one could no matter how much practice they had or how much less strain or...
And this I will admit... how well the guns were regulated... we are not at the mercy of an armoror to hope that he gets the convergence correct... it is allways correct... we are not at the mercy of poor mounts... ours are allways new and fresh (as are our barrels)... we don't have much turbulance and so have the best shot the gun platform (that particular plane) can possibly have...
given that.. and the unlimited time and ammo to practice... it is not too much of a stretch to think that we might exceed the results of WWII pilots to some degree.... and... even tho not many fired at long range in WWII... many many here try it... soooo... probly in WWII it was pretty rare that they tried... those who did probly got one hit in 1,000 rounds... those who try it here.... probly get one ping in 500 rounds... seems about reasonable considering experiance and all the other factors I have named...
Oh... "staying on a jeep at 2000 yards" that means.... with a 50 they can fire full auto and keep all the rounds on target (the jeep) ....
I would challenge said navy manual writer to sit in said jeep to show me exactly what "not effective" meant to him. You could sit next to him and take notes and come back and report to us?
No night? how is flying day fighters at night realistic? Who did that except out of desperation?
anything else?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Lazs,
I'm really not interested in what is/was possible in any games/sims. My interest is what was possible in real WW2 aerial combat. From that it is possible to judge how accurately it is modelled in our game of choice. For example, I think you'd find the gunnery in IL2 a lot different from AH1 or WB, and rather more difficult. as for the navy report... It is simply wrong. A .50 is extremely effective out to 2000 yards...
Lazs, I'm beginning to think you live in an orchard, for as often as you post apples and oranges to this board. 2bighorn has posted in the other thread that the bullet drop would be 15' at 900yds. At 2000yds it would be so much more that aiming would be impossible. Oh and let me remind you of what you said in that old thread - the one you'd rather forget! I have allways gotten in close to kill and even ol' 350 kill Eric felt cannon only worked at point blank range and he had the film to prove it. Hopefully all guns in WB will be a guaranteed kill or cripple with a 2 sec burst on target when under 100 yards.
A 2 second burst on target when under 100yds, did you say? Oh yes you did - I still have that thread!
So you're saying that you know better than the USN when it comes to the capability of a .50cal round? I'd love to forward your comments to the USN to see what they had to say about it. Once again, you might be able to aim and fire a single shot with great accuracy at the gun range with the weapon of your choice, the barrel resting on sandbags. But there's a world of difference between that and firing MG from a moving target at another moving target, with your wings flexing and the plane vibrating and being buffeted by air turbulence and the gun barrels getting hot etc. You are pretty much saying that if a WWII soldier could not do it then no one could no matter how much practice they had or how much less strain or...
We're talking about WWII airmen, not WWII soldiers.I haven't read the thread... no need to.
Of course - what you don't know isn't worth knowing, and you could create a new career for yourself as weapons advisor to the US Navy. :aok given that.. and the unlimited time and ammo to practice... it is not too much of a stretch to think that we might exceed the results of WWII pilots to some degree.... and... even tho not many fired at long range in WWII... many many here try it... soooo... probly in WWII it was pretty rare that they tried... those who did probly got one hit in 1,000 rounds... those who try it here.... probly get one ping in 500 rounds... seems about reasonable considering experiance and all the other factors I have named...
Based on what you've already said yourself, it would take more than one hit every 1000 rounds to cripple a plane, with the possible exceptions of oil system damage resulting shortly afterwards in a forced landing. No night? how is flying day fighters at night realistic? Who did that except out of desperation?
Oh, are you saying that AH no longer has buffs? Were you successful in your quest to have them whined out of existence with threads like this (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54230)? As I recall from WW2 historical accounts, B17s were sent out to destroy targets in Germany. They used the cover of night, because unlike you and your ilk in AH2, the fighter defence of WW2 was indeed capable of getting organised and repelling a buff attack, were it to be mounted by day.
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I've reached the point I actually feel sorry for you.
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Actually I feel sorry for Lazs ... he keeps tryin' and doesn't realize that it just won't work.
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Ty laz, i have givin class's to boot's (boot bein young fresh marine) on the
'crew served weapon" ..its maximux EFFECTIVE range was 2000yrds in 19801984. although you might get lucky from further, if n panic situations. ty I understand the ballistics would be different with a 400mile an hr headwind i.e. aircraft. They are steller weapons if used within itsrange, they make things melt before your eyes. I e, sand bags,:( carry on.)
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beet... if you think the navy is saying that 6,000 lbs of energy is not "effective" or the effective range (accuracy? power?) is 333 yards.... then yes... I am calling the navy guy a liar or a fool.
maybe you feel that colklink is a liar or a fool?
you seem to be saying that you don't really care how realistic the gunnery model is so long as they can make it so bad that no one ever get's better than the WWII airmen and their hour or two of actually shooting practice/experiance...and the fear and and and... silly...
At a 1000 yards a .50 will smash an engine block to pieces (as it passes through the skin and the oil/fuel lines or whatever other soft crap it hits on the way)
even in a 6 year old thread I was consistent.... I was saying that the guns were not effective enough in some long forgotten (by all but you) version of WB.... as I recall.... they changed it too.
anyhow... I guess this all has to do with how us mean old furballers aren't using realistic modeling either...
sure seems like we are using some of the best possible to me... We aren't flying a 30 crew three plane box by ourselves and manning every gun with a gods eye view... apparently that is very realistic to you or...
as realistic as the occassional ping from 1000 yards?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by lazs2
as for the navy report... It is simply wrong. A .50 is extremely effective out to 2000 yards... the amount of energy is many times that of a .30 out to 1000 yards even when you measure the .30 at the muzzle (that's point blank to you). The navy is wrong if what you state is true. "effective"? how is having thounsands of pounds of energy (enough to smash an engine block) at 1000 yards not "effective"?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
Well if my memory serves me right, (and too often it doesn't) Ma Duece (the US 50 cal M2 machine gun) was listed in the books as being effective out to 1800 yards. This was of course using the ground mounted tripod mount.
Now put the M2 in a ring mount on a 6X6 truck, and move it down the road at about 45 mph, and the effective range is another story. I have never fired a 50 cal from a airplane, but I have fired one from a truck. I am a crack shot with a rifle, but hitting anything man ized past about 70 yards from a bouncing truck is extremely lucky. The 50 has a slow rate of fire, (adjustable from I think around 250 rpm to close to 500 rpm, again it's been a long time) and you just shoot all around things. Anything you hit, well, as a Marine Gunnery Sgt once described it as being "like a truck hitting a puppy."
My point being that the effective range of any weapon depends greatly on the stability of the gun platform.
I seriously doubt that the individual 50s on a buff were effective beyond 300 yards. Now a whole box of buffs, say 8 buffs is 80 guns, all firing at some poor sot in a 109, that could be say half the guns coming to bear would be 40 guns at say 500 rpm is 20,000 rpm flying out there. It would be like flying through a rainstorm and hoping not to get wet.
Note that aircraft 50s are set to fire at a higher rate than the ground due to short burst of airplane guns vrs lots of sustained fire by ground guns. Our M2s we mostly to be used against ground troops by ground troops. You need to reduce the rate of fire to conserve ammo, and to reduce barrrel heating during sustained fights. Who knows, the modern 50s may be set for a lot more these days.
And last but not least, I just have a gut feeling that US 50 cals were a lot deadlier in WWII than they are in AH2. But how do you prove that?
Due note that the US 50 cal is much more powerful than the German or Russian 12.7mms
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Originally posted by lazs2
beet... if you think the navy is saying that 6,000 lbs of energy is not "effective" or the effective range (accuracy? power?) is 333 yards.... then yes... I am calling the navy guy a liar or a fool.
Alrighty then. Let it be noted that Lazs thinks the US Navy is a liar or a fool.
As for your consistency, first you say that the .50cal is effective to 2000yds (despite the fact that the USN 1944 manual said it was not accurate beyond 333yds) but in another thread some years earlier you said I have allways gotten in close to kill and even ol' 350 kill Eric felt cannon only worked at point blank range and he had the film to prove it. Hopefully all guns in WB will be a guaranteed kill or cripple with a 2 sec burst on target when under 100 yards.
:confused:
Hi DS - Mr. Realism personified. :lol
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Here is a site that seems somewhat respectable. It is supposed to be for US Army NCO training.
M2 machine gun (http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/army_board_study_guide_topics/m2/m2-study-guide.shtml)
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i beg to say that had to be a typo of 3333 yrds, becouse a crew served is effective to 2000 METERS, although i may have said yrds, by gosh think of a .50 cal only reaching 333yrds, lol comon sense comes into play here, if you have ever fired or seen a .50 fired, it travels 333yrds, in a big hurry, and then alot more, LOL think about it.
:confused:
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Muzzle Velocity > 3,050 ft per sec = 1016 yards in 1 second.
Maximum Range > 6,764 meters = 7,397 yards = 22191 feet.
Maximum Effective Range > 1500 to 1,830 meters = 1,640 to 2,001 yards = 4,920 to 6003 feet.
Although the .50 cal from WWII may not have been as good as todays M2, it would've been close.
Seems to me a few hits from 800 to 900 yards would not be impossible, eh?
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you are exactly correct sir.:aok
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Originally posted by DipStick
Seems to me a few hits from 800 to 900 yards would not be impossible, eh?
Correct.
pssst... dispersion!
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Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
Here is a site that seems somewhat respectable. It is supposed to be for US Army NCO training.
M2 machine gun (http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/army_board_study_guide_topics/m2/m2-study-guide.shtml)
I had a look at that site - the .50cal used by the army. support the infantryman in both attack and defense, destroy lightly armored vehicles, provide protection for motor movements, vehicle parks and train bivouacs, and reconnaissance by fire on suspected enemy positions
- in other words, used on the ground, ie. slow moving targets, NO buffeting due to air turbulence, NO 400mph headwind, NO rounds fired under G forces, NO dispersion due to flexing of wings... so a lot easier to get shots on target. The data looked interesting though.
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if your talking disperstion within 333yrds with a .50 cal, it ain't gonna be much if any, i can throw a rock accuratly 100 yrds, man, common sense, or go to a range and see for yourself, 333, yrds to a .50 cal is nothing. common sense, 333 yrds IS NOT VERY FAR, that sounds redicules, and don't whisper, if you have something to say speak up,
as you were, :lol
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This thread is just sad now...... It keeps going and going and...... Well you know.... Let it die I say just let it DIE!!!!! Or not. lol
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as of oct 15, 2005 max effective range of .50 cal heavy machine gun is 1830 METERS w/ rapid fire, it is effective at 1500 METERS, for 1 shot. I dunno you math fellers convert it, and show him how little 333 yrds is to the .50 , under any circumstances its gonna fire effectively at 333 YRDS. C'mon man. common sense im screamin
as you be.:aok
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Common sense?? HERE???????
:lol
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yeah, that true shatzi, what am I thinking ? LoL:confused:
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Originally posted by ColKLink
ccuratly 100 yrds, man, common sense, or go to a range and see for yourseif your talking disperstion within 333yrds with a .50 cal, it ain't gonna be much if any
...in which case the attacking aircraft would have to be flown accurately to within about one hundredth of a degree in order to get an accurate shot at 800yds. (See my earlier diagram for the mathematical proof) There's no way in hell a plane could be flown that accurately, what with turbulence, engine vibrations, wings flexing, guns heating, recoil etc. As I learned from the other thread, dispersion isn't built in, but occurs as a result of these various factors.
As for cannon, as Lazs said earlier (much earlier!) Erich Hartmann believed it necessary to fire from point blank. Even in AH1 I found it necessary to close to <200yds with the 30mm spud cannon. But with the Chog cannon I could score hits/kills at 600yds. :confused:
I like this thread! :D
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B.S. :o
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It's not BS, and I can prove it mathematically.
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No beet.... 6 or 7 years ago I said that the long (and thankfullyby all but you) forgotten WB gunnery model was hosed because you couldn't shoot down planes from any range. they just soaked up rounds. In that context I said that if you fired a 2 sec burst into a plane at close range (mostly hits) it should do some real damage.
but... this thread.. beet you seem to be saying that even tho WWII pilots got hits at 1000 or more yards... we shouldn't be able to? Even tho we try a lot more often and don't have barrels that melt down or guns that have worn mounts or are out of adjustment for convergence?
You are just mad because.... years ago.... when you left here... guys would occasionaly ping you as you were running... er.... "extending" after a brave B&Z pass on a bored to slumber pilot... at... what you seen as 1000 yards and was probly 600-800 yards at your predictable (save that e) no manuver fly straight and in a slight climb.. shooting a moving target from the ground woulda been ten times harder than shooting you.
As for calling the Navy guy a liar... well...I guess I would have to hear his defenition of "effective" If he is saying a 50 doesn't have enough energy or accuracy out past 333 yards to be "effective" he is wrong.
but... how does that equate with a fluff box of three planes that would take a 30 man crew being piloted by one guy with a mouse? You never did answere that... so.... Pings at 1000 yards every couple thousand rounds or so or 1 mouse weilder controlling 3 B17's which is more "realistic" to you?
simple question... how bout an answer?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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You are just mad because.... years ago.... when you left here... guys would occasionaly ping you as you were running... er.... "extending" after a brave B&Z pass on a bored to slumber pilot... at... what you seen as 1000 yards and was probly 600-800 yards at your predictable (save that e) no manuver fly straight and in a slight climb.. shooting a moving target from the ground woulda been ten times harder than shooting you.
.[SIZE=8]BINGO![/SIZE]
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Originally posted by lazs2
but... this thread.. beet you seem to be saying that even tho WWII pilots got hits at 1000 or more yards... we shouldn't be able to? Even tho we try a lot more often and don't have barrels that melt down or guns that have worn mounts or are out of adjustment for convergence?
I've said all along that I don't doubt that the occasional hit was possible at 800yds. But I'm saying that these would be extremely lucky hits, and I'm saying that you could not get enough of them to bear upon the target at that range to do serious structural damage. You are just mad because.... years ago.... when you left here... guys would occasionaly ping you as you were running... er.... "extending" after a brave B&Z pass on a bored to slumber pilot... at... what you seen as 1000 yards and was probly 600-800 yards at your predictable (save that e) no manuver fly straight and in a slight climb.. shooting a moving target from the ground woulda been ten times harder than shooting you.
I'm saying that those golden shots from 800yds were an almost daily occurrence, and the effect was out of all proportion to what would have happened in RL. I also felt that the FM which allowed the noobs to pull into helicopter mode and spray vertically upwards in the hope of a golden BB was happening on a daily basis. Apprently HTC agreed with me because the gunnery model was completely changed along with the FM which put a stop to that helicopter crap. But of course, there were a lot of quitters and whiners, and I quit too but my own reasons - nothing to do with the GM or FM, which I always considered to have been huge improvements.
I'm also saying that it was BS even when *I* was the attacking plane and shot a guy down at 800yds, ie. 800 on my FE - total BS - I did it as a test and even apologised to my victim afterwards for pulling such a gamey stunt.
What I find funny about this thread is the way that some people are using two opposing theses to support the same argument. I have already proved that to land hits on the wings of a typical fighter plane from its dead 6 position at 800yds assuming ZERO dispersion would require accuracy of pitch to within ~0.012°. To land hits on the tail/fuselage would require accuracy of pitch to within not much more than that - well under 0.25°. Few people would believe that an aircraft could be flown that accurately (turbulence/vibration/wing flexing/recoil etc.) and I think even you would accept that bullet dispersion occurred, increasing the chances of hits. But then you switch the the other thesis to support the viability of opening fire at such a huge range by quoting articles about the accuracy of the .50 cal in an entirely different mode of deployment - a solid, stable, stationary platform on the ground. These days I'm sure the gunsight/other aiming mechanism is a lot more accurate than anything available in WW2. To pretend that a WW2 airman could aim his guns as accurately as a modern day ground based M2 setup is just silly.
At one time, you were interested in the realism aspect of these games. You even announced to us all that to get hits with cannon you had to be getting to point blank range, and that Erich Hartmann even had the film to prove it.
But now I see that you have lost all interest in reality - you don't want your favourite WW2 sim to be anything like WW2 and have said so in this thread. So for you, the transition from WW2 sim realist to armchair gamer dork is complete. But don't feel bad - you have numerous like-minded friends!
:rofl
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Why not just go play IL2 or whatever "game" you play now that you "think" is more "real" and stfu. Nobody who actually "plays" "this" "game" gives a crap what you have to say. Capisca?
I actually took everybody off of ignore for awhile. Looks like you're gonna be the first back on...... again.
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funny that - because after 10 pages of this thread, I'm still getting replies. :D
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Go beetle ,go beetle
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wow... after all this I am still getting replies from beet who doesn't even play the game..
I never said (even six years ago) that you should have to get in close to get hits with cannon... As I recall... I said that if you ARE in close then cannon hits (or .30 machine guns hits)should be pretty leathal... big difference. the guns did no damage in that version.. it got fixed. In another version I said that the german early cannon should not have been so powerful as the later ones sooo.. what's your point..
and... you claim that 800 yard pings here are "common" and were not in WWII... did you even think that one through? even a little bit? How many rounds did WWII pilots fire in a day at planes? How many do we fire? simple to see huh?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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505 posts in 1 thread?....Is this a record?
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Originally posted by lazs2
I never said (even six years ago) that you should have to get in close to get hits with cannon...
You said I have allways gotten in close to kill and even ol' 350 kill Eric felt cannon only worked at point blank range and he had the film to prove it.
And others including yourself have tried to use two mutually exclusive theses to support the same argument. It's an Either/Or situation.
EITHER... rounds from WW2 aircraft guns were subject to dispersion, giving the pilot a better chance of scoring hits at reasonable ranges, but dispersing rounds over too large an area at longer ranges for all but a few lucky pings to find their target...
OR... there was "no dispersion", the .50 cal was as accurate as a modern day M2, in which case the planes using it would face the impossible task of having to be flown to an accuracy of small fractions of a degree to land hits on target.
You can't have it both ways.
Of course, in GDU there is no turbulence, no wind, no night, no weather, no clouds, no oil on the windscreen... and bullets the size of marrows. And you take every opportunity you get to pan the toolshedders for seeking some form of realism, ie organisation/buff attack/capture as "boring" because it's too much like WW2, which is of course what AH is all about. So it's funny that you should cite your motivation to furball as to find out how various planes would have fared against eachother, when you've pretty much redefined every attribute of the terms of engagement in accordance with GDU ideals.
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sheesh.. you really can't read? nothing in what I said about dispertion even 6 years ago in a long forgoten and lousy gunnery model... give it up... I said essentialy that up close the cannon should have enough power to penetrate and kill. I stick by that.
and... please don't tell me about AH... you have no idea because...
you don't play.
you don't need to play to answer the question I asked 4 times tho...
is it gamey or not for one guy to control 3 bombers with what should be a 30 man crew by himself using a mouse?
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
sheesh.. you really can't read? nothing in what I said about dispertion even 6 years ago in a long forgoten and lousy gunnery model... give it up... I said essentialy that up close the cannon should have enough power to penetrate and kill. I stick by that.
and... please don't tell me about AH... you have no idea because...
you don't play.
you don't need to play to answer the question I asked 4 times tho...
is it gamey or not for one guy to control 3 bombers with what should be a 30 man crew by himself using a mouse?
lazs
Can't YOU read? We were discussing RL gunnery, not a game. You yourself were not commenting on the GM of any game in that quoted text. You were talking about the German ace Erich Hartmann who scored 352 victories in WW2.
One guy to control 3 buffs? Of course that's not how it was in WW2, and it usually goes against the gamer. He has to fly all three planes and jump around to the different guns on different planes. It's hard to do. You would know that, had you ever tried it. But unless things have changed, it's possible for the pilot to invite other players to join his plane in the various gunner positions. My squad used to do that every Sunday evening during squad night.
If it's just one guy, it's much easier to shoot him down. You would know this were you to try it, instead of coming to the BBS to whine about buffs whenever you've failed to stop them from killing your FH, which seems to happen quite often.
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Originally posted by beet1e
One guy to control 3 buffs?................He has to fly all three planes and jump around to the different guns on different planes................But unless things have changed, it's possible for the pilot to invite other players to join his plane in the various gunner positions. My squad used to do that every Sunday evening during squad night.
If it's just one guy, it's much easier to shoot him down. You would know this were you to try it, instead of coming to the BBS to whine about buffs whenever you've failed to stop them from killing your FH, which seems to happen quite often.
This is yet ANOTHER definitive post that shows you are talking out your arse.
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How would you know beet.... you..... don't..... play..
as for what this is about... I thought it was about furballing vs toolsheding and then you brought up the relative realism of both..
I guess you do think that the toolsheders are the realistic ones.. with their realistic mouse model and realistic strat targets (kill the carport and no planes can take off).
but.. you are sorta correct on one thing.... I have to be really really bored with no real fite anywhere else to kill a fluff and the 30.... er..... 3....er.... ONE guy in it.... Oh wait... he doesn't really die does he? he simply jumps (transports) into one of the remaining fluffs in the box..
but then... you wouldn't know anything about it since... You.... don't.....play..
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by nazgulAX
505 posts in 1 thread?....Is this a record?
Not even close.... this one got closed at 2006 posts. :)
Meet "The VOSS CONSPIRACY... fascinating new book" (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=123551&highlight=voss)
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Make fitertown and tanktown bases unporkable like (dare I blasphemly say) AW used to have, then furballers will always have safe place to fight fast.
THose that look at maps dar and try to find even dar bars to engage are weekkneed sissylalas, find the sector with the largest enemy darbar and up there,you wont be dissapointed.
KaK3MAW
'history never makes mistakes'
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DS - I thought you were putting me on ignore! - or was that statement BS like all your others?
How would you know beet.... you..... don't..... play.. - Lazs
I qualified my statement by saying "But unless things have changed"... and I say again that a buff pilot could (back then) invite other players to man the gun positions. Are you saying that's BS? Is that what DS thinks is BS? The one slightly gamey part of it was that they could join mid flight, using the AH teleport device! :lol
You keep banging on about buffs and toolshedders, not just in this thread but in numerous other threads over the years. I really can't see what your problem is. Just because YOU think that YOUR way is the only way to play this game, on maps of which YOU approve because they meet YOUR criteria, does that mean that everyone else has to toe the furball line? What happened to all that "more freedom" stuff you're fond of spouting in the O'Club?
Yes I do think that the toolshedders game is more realistic than yours in a relative sense. It's simple. In WW2, the didn't just send up fighters to toy with other fighters. WW2 had an objective - land grab. The Germans were after Limeyland and they damn near succeeded. The strategy was to bring in bombers to destroy strategic targets - factories, towns, airfields. They wanted to destroy the RAF on the ground. This was a prelude to invasion which, as in AH (unless things have changed) would be achieved by landing troops at some stage. Thankfully that never happened. Did they ever destroy the fighter hangars at our airfields? You bet your life they did. One of my uncles served in WW2 (as a civilian) and his job as a builder was to repair airfields that had been hit. I shall find out more....
But basically, if other players want to engage in what they feel is as close as they can get to simulating WW2 combat and capture of territory using the strat objects that exist in AH because they were put there by HTC, you're saying that they're wrong because it doesn't accord with YOUR model of how the MA should be. YOU KNOW that HTC created the strat as it is and YOU KNOW that they put buffs in the game, and you SHOULD know that the objective of AH as defined by the very people who produced it is "to capture territory by land, sea and air attacks" - or something like that.
So if you can't be arsed to get off your virtual butt to repel the very attacks which you so despise, maybe you're playing the wrong game - or the right game the wrong way.