Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => King of the Hill => Topic started by: najdorf on July 02, 2003, 04:30:33 PM
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Was wondering about the possibility of doing a team KOTH. That would incorporate squads, limit each team to 4 members. Same rules would apply that apply to koth except about winging. Since you can see player id's, you would be able to tell who was on your team.
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Naj,
I'll host it.... But it needs a more detailed write up, name, etc... We'd alos need a day of the month to host it. All Fridays are out - KOTH & SquadOps... It would be fun to do, maybe we can get a beta together and see if people like it & want to do it again.... I need more info and we need the community's opinion too. Who will support this idea?
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I'll help .. and i'm betting you can get two more assassins.... I proably can't make the next KOTH myself .. maybe you should set this up for two weeks from now? Do the beta on a weeknight maybe or weekend daytime (harder with events)
Players would all be able to join squads and highlight thier team only.....this would help, beyond haveing to read a name compared to color code.... You can also use this for CM's to ensure every man flying is with a squad, walk-on as always, but should make them join SEA squads for these reasons.
should post about this in 'Squadrons" and "SE Genral" forum once things get rolling. Shouldn't be too hard to find 5-6 groups of 4.
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Originally posted by BigMax
Naj,
I'll host it.... But it needs a more detailed write up, name, etc... We'd alos need a day of the month to host it. All Fridays are out - KOTH & SquadOps... It would be fun to do, maybe we can get a beta together and see if people like it & want to do it again.... I need more info and we need the community's opinion too. Who will support this idea?
I'll help ya out BM, and you can give me some arena setup instructions while were at :D
The idea sounds very good though. I'll shoot ya an email in a couple days with some ideas.
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We'll have to clear all of this with "da bosslady", but I'm sure she'll agree, assuming we get it all worked out ahead of time... WT, this could be "your baby" if you want. I have my hands full with the SSs and the KOTH. Assuming Flosslicious & HTC are good with the event to begin with... Keep your fingers crossed:)
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id be happy to help
skull12
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I'm for it.
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we had something like that couple week's back in DA. was fun:D considering i was filiming the whole trying to get kill firing 2 round's then 1 ping kill's on me:D we had like 5 on 5 on5 team's team with a player stand win's and they get to chose the next airplane and that was how that worked
skull12
xskullx
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Originally posted by BigMax
We'll have to clear all of this with "da bosslady", but I'm sure she'll agree, assuming we get it all worked out ahead of time...
Yeah, fine by me...... ;)Assuming Flosslicious
Who? :o ROFL! :D
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Originally posted by Flossy
Yeah, fine by me...... ;)Who? :o ROFL! :D
Thought you'd like my "butterring you up" verbiage... I see it worked!;)
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Originally posted by BigMax
Thought you'd like my "butterring you up" verbiage... I see it worked!;)
LOL! You certainly have a way with words! ;)
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The 101'RED' SQ would be happy to participate in a team tournament.
I think about 2 possible ways to do that:
1. At the DA when every 2 teams get a sector to fly, doing a best of 3 wins. So u don't wait in TWR too long for ur turn to play.
2. CM's choosing by lottary teams to fight. The teams/SQ leaders set a date to play a best of 5 wins. Then report to CM by mail on results. By the end of the month we do a final of the best 4 teams.
I'm sure there r better ideas then mine...
jussa
XO
101'RED' Squadron Israel
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Good ideas, Jussa, but that's more of a squad dueling ladder than a squad KOTH.
However, let's get some ground rules sorted out, then we can go further:
1) Let's see if there's any real interest out there for a squad KOTH. Any CO's please feel free to add to this thread saying if this idea is of interest. Any squad members reading this please discuss it with your fellow squad memebrs and ask if this is of interest
2) We thrash out a design concept on this board.
3) We (The players! :)) submit the idea to Flossy (As head honcho CM and all round Boss lady) formaly; so she can discuss it on the CM's board and a suitable recruitment of CM's and scheduling can take place (BigMax and I are both CM's; but we can't just volunteer our colleagues time with out asking them).
4) My Squad wins! :)
OK; so the first condition (public interest) we can wait on for a bit; but there's certainly nothing precluding us going proceeding to the design stage.
Here's a list of my own criteria; and my comments. By all means shoot me down in flames with points of your own:
1) Overall concept:
KOTH is a massive furball where all involved up at the same time; in the same arena until there remains only one squad represented in the air. This wins one round. The first squad to win three rounds is the event winner.
2) Size of Squad:
I recomend this be limited to four people, in the classic "Rotte" or four ship or finger-four formation generally accepted as the most efficient by tacticians. Large squads needing more places will go on to form second and third string squads in the format of MAW:A; MAW:B; MAW:C etc. Squads that fail to muster four must almalgamate or fly short. Remember that SEA squads have no bearing on MA squads......
3) Plane choice:
I've an open mind on this; I like the idea of single plane squads; or single airforce squads or the current method and similar; but bear in mind this is not an Axis-Allies event; and the winner of each round must have influence in some way on plane choice. That could be year, nationality or some other factor such as choice of plane skin (be warned; if I ever do win you WILL ALL be flying pink spitfires!). To clarify; in Solo KOTH every one flies exactly the same plane, the model of which is decided by the previous round's winner.
4) Registration:
Registration in my mind should not be required; I would very much like to maintain Solo KOTH's free and easy, drop in or out when you please atmosphere. However, in a squad event there's some issues that need to be sorted out. Should we register squad memebers or not? Do we allow squads to change composition in mid event? If one guy drops out (either prior to or during the event) should the squad be able to recruit a replacement? I firmly believe that one should "be in uniform" to fly; any pointers?
5) Schedule
At first thought; and depending on the interest shown here; I think a three monthly event entirely feasable. Wither or not that should develop into either a six monthly or monthly event depends entirely on the interest you guys show; How about it guys?
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Gosh... does this thread ever remind me of the CM forum. 30-40 more posts and it's a dead ringer. :D
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You'd rather we Emailed HTC direct? :D
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Seeker,
I like most of your ideas... But I think informal is better.
We'll host it, and if a squad shows & wants to fly together - let them.
If single pilots show and want to join, plug them into a group.
Four sounds about right, is definitely the most we need.
Registration is a bad thing... Simply because it means we'd have to spend time planning and if one didn't show, we'd have to plan it all over again while the players wait.
I think that as teams log in, we assign them numbers and then use their numbers like seeds in a sports bracket system to host a double elimination tournament, round robin, or a free-for-all. Setting needs to be as the community dictates. (ie #1 plays #20 of 20, #2 plays #19 of 20, etc...)
As far as how frequently we host it, let the community decide that too. I'm thinking 5 teams = worth doing again; 7 = do it again in 2 months, and 10 = run it again next month.
We'd also need a unique name... & an afternoon to host it on. This one needs to as neutral to time-zones as possible. I'm thinking noon or so on a Saturday or Sunday EST. It should allow ALL US and EUROs to join together. Granted, there will be NO perfect time, but this will probably fit the customer base the best.
I HATE IMPOSED RULES!!!!
Good competition, as few rules as possible = the most fun!, which needs to be the #1 goal!
Also, we have a third intersted CM, WT wants in too!
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Sounds like fun. 412th would be there.
In regards to registration, I think anything where you let walkons come and go as they please will end up making the organization fall apart too easily, with players possibly switching teams mid-stream, or new players coming in trying to start new teams, etc.
Single KOTH is hard enough to explain to newbies. It might become a real burden to try and explain team KOTH during the event.
Some sort of pre-registration could be used to allow team captains to sign up. That captain could then get 3 other players for his team, or accept walk-ons if he needed them come game day.
If teams had less than 4 members, they could sit out a round, or fly short-handed.
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my small squad of 3 ppl could make it to the euro time one ;). we hsave a member from U.K.
skull12
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Originally posted by Seeker
You'd rather we Emailed HTC direct? :D
Oops... Hope you didn't misunderstand. Just sayin' that it brought back memories. Nothin' more nothin' less. :)
The way I see it, though... I'm not too sure it was the best thing for alla CMs to jump into this particular thread and start hammering out process. You just wanted to get a feeler from the community to see if there was any interest in the 1st place. Kinda shifted direction from the start. Uhm... thassall - I'm outtahere! :D
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BigMax wrote:
I like most of your ideas... But I think informal is better.
Me too! But I hate explaining when I'm CM'ing (but I can walk and chew gummmmmmmmmm)
Midnight wrote:
I think anything where you let walkons come and go as they please will end up making the organization fall apart too easily, with players possibly switching teams mid-stream, or new players coming in trying to start new teams, etc.
Exactly! I want to reduce the on-the-night work load for CM's on this- I want to fly! But I really like KOTH's informal attitude as BigMax rightly stresses above; afterall I want to fly in this! :) I think this may be the most crucial aspect of the concept, how we balance the lassitude of KOTH with meaningfull squad administration (if it's only a game, then why keep score?)
Nash wrote:
I'm not too sure it was the best thing for alla CMs to jump into this particular thread and start hammering out process
I'll shut up now then :-)
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you could force them to all join squads the size of 4 men or get kicked.... this shold keep the workload small.... just make sure everyones in a squad before ya roll each round...
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If you don't allow walkons, you won't get enough people to make it work.
I also don't think we should refer to it as a squad v. squad type of event because some people will not get involved because they think they need to be in a squad.
It is a team event. Teams don't necessarily have to be made of squadmates although that would be permitted.
People show up and form teams. Once we reach the time limit, if you are not on a team, the CM puts you on one. You can't up if your not on a team.
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Originally posted by najdorf
If you don't allow walkons, you won't get enough people to make it work.
I agree....
Originally posted by najdorf
I also don't think we should refer to it as a squad v. squad type of event because some people will not get involved because they think they need to be in a squad.
I agree...
Originally posted by najdorf
It is a team event. Teams don't necessarily have to be made of squadmates although that would be permitted.
I agree...
Originally posted by najdorf
People show up and form teams. Once we reach the time limit, if you are not on a team, the CM puts you on one. You can't up if your not on a team.
I agree...
The way we'd have to do it is to "lock" the arena @ XXPM and keep it locked until it's over.
We should open it to walk-ons so that ALL interested players can participate.
Allowing players to form their own teams may or may not be in the best interest of the game... (I.E. Fester, Leviathon, WldThing, and NathBDP). There are other foursomes that could compete, but very few.... It would detract from ALL other players interest.
I think it should be a "choose-up" type format. We'll have the host CM's (2) choose team captains, and we'll randomize the selection order. Then the nexte round we'll reverse the order to pick team member #3 and so on...
But, if we wanted to hold "a bring your best foursome" tourney we could do that too.
We can run it either way, but we need to focus on our target audience: An AHer that is competent but at an intermediate skill level and likes to work Wing Tactics.
We need to have a question answered - "Who will participate?" Then we'll know how to proceed.
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alright we have all out now to set a date
skull12
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good punt ... we going to do this thing?
how about we set it for late-sep?....
pick a weekend CM's ...that's proably all it takes .... and some advertiseing.
If Flossy or some other CM will finalize a genral rule set it would help tho .... player picked teams ... CM picked teams whatever .. lets just try it once ....
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Suggestion for Rules.
Played like regular KOTH. Last team standing wins round. First team to 3 rounds wins title. Each round winner picks plane for next round.
We set time and date for event. Once xxx time hits. CM begins placing players on teams. The teams don't have to be split to the nth degree to ensure fairness, but we don't want Icemaw, BigMax, Wldthing and ManeTMP on the same team.
Teams are named Team 1, Team 2, etc.
Once a fourman team has been named, they form squad named as above.
No Double teaming. 2 Teams are not allowed to work together. You are not allowed to fly if you are not on a team. If there are not the right number of players for 4man teams, some teams are to be made 3 man teams who can pickup walkons as they come into the arena.
This will be a difficult event to CM, so no whining or *****ing about your team and how is composed or we'll never get the thing off the ground.
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punt for bigmax to pick a date plz!
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I wish we had more people posting in response to this idea... It looks there are a certain few who really want to try to make this work, but the other 98% of the community is disinterested. I will however ask Skuzzy to get permission to do it. I'm certain we will need at least one month's lead time to promote it properly. I have Friday off from my paid job, honey-do's not withstanding.
I'll try to come up with a rulez post by then.
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once again
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Bigmax: As discussed in e-mail our squadron No56 "Firebirds" Sqn, will certainly be proposing a team, possibly even two teams judging by the response on the squad bot.
This is a great idea, please dont let it die!!
The rest of you: Get yer 'orrible lil rear ends in gear and tell Bigmax that you'll be bringing a team to this event.
Gremlin.
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Originally posted by Gremlin
Bigmax: As discussed in e-mail our squadron No56 "Firebirds" Sqn, will certainly be proposing a team, possibly even two teams judging by the response on the squad bot.
This is a great idea, please dont let it die!!
The rest of you: Get yer 'orrible lil rear ends in gear and tell Bigmax that you'll be bringing a team to this event.
Gremlin.
gremlin if i could get a team big enough i would.
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You'd only need yourself & three others... A formal proposal will go to Skuzzy within the week, assuming we get the deatils hashed out between now & then.
Grem, we'll need some announcement banners - you're a computer bubba, right? Can you design us some? I am not very website savvy, yet. So I'd also need help with a web tracking system... Let me know if you have the time.. We're kinda sunk without a good design guy...
There will be lotsa bases to cover, these are just a few. Will think of more and post again...
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Originally posted by Manedew
good punt ... we going to do this thing?
how about we set it for late-sep?....
pick a weekend CM's ...that's proably all it takes .... and some advertiseing.
If Flossy or some other CM will finalize a genral rule set it would help tho .... player picked teams ... CM picked teams whatever .. lets just try it once ....
It is being discussed on the CM boards... Date has not been proposed yet, but I am asking for a Saturday or Sunday (preferably Saturday) block of time - 3 to 5 hours. Starting around 12 noon EST... I'm not sure how it will work out, there are already regularly scheduled events on both of those days... we'll see.
Just a reminder,
Conceptual ideas move slowly in the beginning, bear with me.
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I lost my mind for a minute there....
Was thinking about a 4 v 4 tournament from a "softball tournament" format... lol
KOTH is KOTH...
Anyway,
Another question for the players...
SAME PLANE, or allow different planes (no 262s or 163 though)?
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Originally posted by BigMax
I lost my mind for a minute there....
Was thinking about a 4 v 4 tournament from a "softball tournament" format... lol
KOTH is KOTH...
Anyway,
Another question for the players...
SAME PLANE, or allow different planes (no 262s or 163 though)?
same plane.
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same plane, do it just like KOTH.
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You have to admit, different planes would allow teams to really maximize the "TEAM" concept...
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What about having a wildcard round where each team can choose their plane from a choice of 4 or 5 which the CMs decide prior to the event? The CMs dont tell the players what the plane set is or which round it will be just. Throw it in with no warning give the teams 3-4 minutes to decide on which plane, fuel etc to carry and roll
For example say in round 5 the CM calls Wildcard round;
Spit 1; Hurri 1; Zero; F4F
The teams choose and roll. However the winner does not get to choose the plane for the next round. That honour falls to the team who won the round prior to the wildcard round.
Just an idea for mixing both ideas.
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Originally posted by BigMax
Grem, we'll need some announcement banners - you're a computer bubba, right? Can you design us some?
Web banners no-problemm, coming up.
Originally posted by BigMax
I'd also need help with a web tracking system...
Not quite sure what you mean by this. Wanna take this to email and discuss further?
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Originally posted by Gremlin
Not quite sure what you mean by this. Wanna take this to email and discuss further?
Was from my "brain fart"... When I was thinking the "round robin" format...
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The word is in from "Da Bosslady"...
It's GAME ON!
We want this to have MUCH participation, so we wait until Gremlin gets his banners done and approved... In the meantime, I guess we just need to get the rules ironed out and find a hole in the events schedule to plug this baby into... I am thinking it's about 1 to 2 months away.
Talk it up fellers.... It's gonna happen!
:D :D
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By far, the most difficult aspect of this is going to be on the managing CM. The logistics of this one will necessarily make the setup a much slower process than the individual KOTH.
Therefore, I think we should stick with KOTH rules as far as possible. I think allowing multiple planes will create a mess and further slow down the event. You're going to have short attention span whiners chomping at the bit to get going, probably have some of log because they don't want to wait for the thing to setup.
One way to help this is to have a signup sheet so that the CM can do some pre-event management. Still allow walkons, they will be important to flesh out the field.
I think you allow the players to form their own teams to a certain extent while breaking up teams that would be considered a ringer like: Widlthng, Big Max, Icemaw, ManeTMP. I really don't want to face a team like that and no one that knows anything about the community would be real thrilled to face them either.
Otherwise, first team to win 3 rounds. 1 plane per round. CM chooses ride for Rd. 1. Set max 10K unengaged alt. etc.
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Setup really isn't hard from round to round...
Organizing the teams, that's the trick...
The "ringer team" will be a problem. Simply because, if we open it to a "form your own team" format, then we have opened the door for it to happen...
Any thoughts on how to prevent this?
One idea I have is that perhaps we should make ALL teams have to have at least 1 walk-on player. If there isn't enough, then a hand-selected team could fly with three pilots vice four.
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This is where I think a sign up sheet might come in handy. You could predetermine certain individuals that you would not want on the same team.
Another thing we could do is go back through the logs of previous KOTH's, I am assuming most players would come from these ranks, and rate each player as potentially an A,B,C, or D player based on the perception of their abilities. You have that list available at the start, and as you either form teams or check off pre-formed teams, you make sure you don't have teams with 2 or 3 A players. I would say, for instance, anyone who has won a KOTH would be an A player. Anyone having won a round is a B player. Any player with close to at least a 1 to 1 K/D ration IN KOTH is a C player. Newbs and players with .5 K/D's and lower are D players.
If we are going to assume that the only way to make fair teams is to place people on teams as opposed to pre-formed teams, then you are going to have to have help. You should get 2 or 3 others who will defanitely make the event and ask that they help keep track of and form teams. These should be people who have a working knowledge of the player base and those that can be objective in rating other pilots. We just want to get relatively fair teams, not insult people.
In any event, I think a pre-event sign up sheet is a good start. Although I think it is important to make it clear that you are still welcome to the event even if you are not on the signup sheet.
I also think it should be stressed that skill level is unimportant, that you will be placed on a team and that it's not a requirement for you to be in a squad to participate.
After the first one of these, the next ones will require less pre-event maintainance, but I think proper preparation for this initial TEAM KOTH will be important to ensure success.